What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[England my lionheart]

And as I said in the other thread, we can review the thousands of threads about Islam and see who attack and who defend. Unfortunately, Muslims are in the defensive position, most of the time.

Have you ever wondered why Islam gets so much criticism,for the most part Islam is criticised for the acts of a minority which IMO is wrong,but at its core Islam doesn't sit well with what many in the West perhaps take for granted,freedom of conscience and sexuality and the punishment for Sina is just so wrong on many levels.

 

[kai]

Yeah, how convenient. I only support the war against Saddam, Taliban, Hamas and Hezbullah. Of course, any killing of Muslims in the process are only a part of the war against these evil people. "Hey, I am a peace lover and justice supporter." But what I and other Muslims perceived of you, all this time, as a Zionist more than the Israelis themselves, your apologetic posts for the Israeli attacks on the Palestinians and Lebanese people, your desperate defense for the occupying forces in Afghanistan and Iraq is an illusion and we misunderstood you. My mistake!!

I am a zionist now? what i am is a realist! Israel is there and its not going anywhere so deal with it, if thats zionism then i am a zionist. at least i am not telling the poor Palestinians that i am going to fight until the whole of Palestine is once again ours. or until the last Palestinian anyway.

you know you don't ever express a difference in say a Palestinian cowering in his home from the onslaught that he knows will come and a Islamic jihadee firing his rocket into Israel or a Hezbollah fighter taking Israeli soldiers hostage or a Lebanese civilian knowing what this could bring or even Saddam crushing thousands upon thousands of Muslims their all Muslims to you Ok fair enough but i dont care what their religion is i like to call a spade a spade and i beleive like the Quran says everyone has to take responsibility for their actions Muslim or not.

 

[kai]

i hate when we Muslims use the West and everyone else to raise ourselves to some higher level. the West is not the evil empire that many Muslim speakers claim it is. sure there are major problems both socially and politically, but our job as Muslims is to improve upon ourselves, not demonize the rest of the world with the "us versus them" attitude we so often portray. if we want to be respected, then we need to show respect. we do a horrible job of presenting our points with any sort of positive light; instead, we present our views in a very negative "holier than thou" way.

before everyone comes down on me, i don't mean ALL Muslims, of course, or even the MAJORITY...just the LOUDEST minority.



and sadly this happens between/among Muslims as well. if a Muslim has a different opinion than another Muslim, well...clearly ONE of them is wrong. i have real issues with this even within the Muslim community.



i've run across some of these types too; luckily they're few and far between in my community. the ones who think like that...i just don't discuss religion/politics with them.





fair enough. as long as you can see both sides of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and can see the flaws and mistakes of both sides, then you have the right to your opinion.

I see wrongs and rights on both sides and i quote ad nauseum the mantra " there is no military solution to this problem"

 

[Badran]

operation cast lead itself was an act of war it was actively sought by Hamas and its associates. Hamas main purpose is to fight Israelis that's what they exist to do and that's what they get war. The losers as always were the Palestinian people.

I would like to see Hamas put on there best uniforms and take their AK47s and become the martyrs they express the wish to be all of them march right up to the border firing from the hip instead of hiding amongst civilians systematically goading Israel into war and then crying foul when they do. then maybe the Palestinians can get someone to negotiate a political solution.

I understand what you're saying about Hamas, and i do agree that they aren't really concerned (or at least as they should be) for Palestinians. But for Israel, they aren't so different are they?

I mean they used white phosphorous, which speaks volumes when used in such a densely populated area. Also, some soldiers (Israeli ones) said they were specifically told to shoot first regardless, to tear down any building if it even appeared in the least bit suspicious, same with people. They even used Palestinians as body shields. So why is there any difference in your eyes? The mere fact that they claim they aren't targeting civilians? Surely you would see all this as criminal. And if not, why not extend the same for Hamas?

 

[kai]

And as I said in the other thread, we can review the thousands of threads about Islam and see who attack and who defend. Unfortunately, Muslims are in the defensive position, most of the time.

Muslims are in a defensive position far more in Muslim countries that they ever are in the west, OK you might have problems wearing a burka or building a minaret but your not going to be put in mass graves or tortured to death or shot for being a girl at school by other Muslims check out how the the poor Palestinians that the Arabs care so much about are treated in Arab countries for a start.

 

[kai]

I understand what you're saying about Hamas, and i do agree that they aren't really concerned (or at least as they should be) for Palestinians. But for Israel, they aren't so different are they?

I mean they used white phosphorous, which speaks volumes when used in such a densely populated area. Also, some soldiers (Israeli ones) said they were specifically told to shoot first regardless, to tear down any building if it even appeared in the least bit suspicious, same with people. They even used Palestinians as body shields. So why is there any difference in your eyes? The mere fact that they claim they aren't targeting civilians? Surely you would see all this as criminal. And if not, why not extend the same for Hamas?

There isnt much difference once you unleash the dogs of war you cry havok. The difference is that Hamas is leading the Palestinians down the road to war they cannot possibly win, they know it , i know it and you must surely know it. Hamas is a gang of thugs not heroes.

 

[Badran]

There isnt much difference once you unleash the dogs of war you cry havok. The difference is that Hamas is leading the Palestinians down the road to war they cannot possibly win, they know it , i know it and you must surely know it. Hamas is a gang of thugs not heroes.

What i'm saying is why don't you criticize Israel as much, and call it in the same terms you call Hamas?

As in, i never seen you call Israeli soldiers and government criminals, thugs, etc.. If you did before i'm sorry i missed it, but i only see you saying this about Hamas.

 

[Sahar]

I am a zionist now? what i am is a realist! Israel is there and its not going anywhere so deal with it, if thats zionism then i am a zionist.

Of course you're and to the marrow. It's enough to read your replies to Badran's questions.

 

[kai]

What i'm saying is why don't you criticize Israel as much, and call it in the same terms you call Hamas?

As in, i never seen you call Israeli soldiers and government criminals, thugs, etc.. If you did before i'm sorry i missed it, but i only see you saying this about Hamas.

You will have to give me some instances where i am distinctly actively ignoring or supporting criminal acts by Israeli soldiers, what i usualy see is threads condemning Israel after the die is cast by Hamas who slink off and hide amongst the population once Palestinians are being killed and homes demolished they can then jump up on top of the rubble and cry "we have won" ! and then cry crocodile tears over what those criminal Israelis have done.

 

[kai]

Of course you're and to the marrow. It's enough to read your replies to Badran's questions.

Thats a cop out! i have said many times i support the two state solution, do you Sahar? or are you one of those that will fight till the last Palestinian?

 

[Bismillah]

i support the two state solution

Empty words from the Americans and English don't sit well with most Muslims, sorry.

 

[Bismillah]

but at its core Islam doesn't sit well with what many in the West perhaps take for granted,freedom of conscience and sexuality and the punishment for Sina is just so wrong on many levels.

England care to list specefic examples?

 

[kai]

Empty words from the Americans and English don't sit well with most Muslims, sorry.

Then thats more their problem than ours. because its the only solution! anything else just gets Palestinians killed.

How about you Abibi do support a two state solution? or do wish to see nothing less then the complete annihilation of the state of Israel? Its an important question it sorts out all the empty words and shows who wants peace and who wants war.

 

[Bismillah]

Then thats more their problem than ours. becuase its the only solution! anything else just gets Palestinians killed.

No, I think it clearly is a problem when everything and anything Israel does is given a free pass. That all its activities are funded and defended as legitimate.

So any two state solution can only happen when the West (and in most particular America) takes an actual neutral position. Because as it is any solution to peace is undermined each and every day.



So when people back a two state solution and then ignore the fact that Israel is not willing to commit itself to the steps necessary to that solution I normally just roll my eyes, because they and their governments like to condemn Muslims instead.

 

[kai]

No, I think it clearly is a problem when everything and anything Israel does is given a free pass. That all its activities are funded and defended as legitimate.

So any two state solution can only happen when the West (and in most particular America) takes an actual neutral position. Because as it is any solution to peace is undermined each and every day.



So when people back a two state solution and then ignore the fact that Israel is not willing to commit itself to the steps necessary to that solution I normally just roll my eyes, because they and their governments like to condemn Muslims instead.

Not answering? two state solution or do you want it all?

 

[Bismillah]

Not answering? two state solution or do you want it all?

I don't want anything, it's not my land at issue and not my home that is dynamited.

I would like peace in the region and would like the refugees of the Palestinian diaspora better lives, which I know of course isn't possible.

So I would support any initiative that would give peace to some small measure of Palestinians and in this case I would suspect that a two state solution would be the least costly.

However, that does not imply practicality or even the possibility to work because as it is right now there is NO solution.

 

[kai]

Talk about undermining peace! Israel left Gaza, it packed up and left ! it moved settlers by force,they were gone. What happened the Palestinians voted in a war party Hamas,who didnt want to talk about statehood but talked with Kassams instead.

They are still firing rockets and Mortars now dozens have been fired this month. no setting up of a Palestinian state in Gaza we will will show them lets fire more rockets and mortars, well what for? whats the ultimate aim of doing that? are they yearning for operation cast lead 2?

 

[kai]

I don't want anything, it's not my land at issue and not my home that is dynamited.

I would like peace in the region and would like the refugees of the Palestinian diaspora better lives, which I know of course isn't possible.

So I would support any initiative that would give peace to some small measure of Palestinians and in this case I would suspect that a two state solution would be the least costly.

However, that does not imply practicality or even the possibility to work because as it is right now there is NO solution.

But you show such an interest? surely you must desire something for the Palestinians i know its not easy because if you say you support the two state solution that technically makes you a Zionist.So is it true that in reality no Muslim can really support a two state solution? because your supporting the existance of the state of Israel that makes them a zionist doesnt it?

The Palestinians in the diaspora dont have much of a life i admit, well not those that live in camps in the Arab world that is.

 

[England my lionheart]

England care to list specefic examples?

Apostates from Islam are punished for not wanting to be a Muslim anymore,in its mildest form like in Egypt the punishment is no recognition or identity,of course it means death in the home of Islam Saudi Arabia.

Sexuality, BBC News - Gay Muslims made homeless by family violence this is in the UK,in other places it means death.

Adultery/Sina,there are some extreme punishments for this one too,stoning is extreme but it is a crime in Islam which you obviously know

 

[Bismillah]

Talk about undermining peace! Israel left Gaza, it packed up and left ! it moved settlers by force,they were gone. What happened the Palestinians voted in a war party Hamas,who didnt want to talk about statehood but talked with Kassams instead.

Israel left Gaza because it became to costly to occupy. It also left the Palestinians in a very divided state between those who claimed peace works and those who claim that it doesn't. The Fatah government was kept in the dark and the unilateral withdrawal left a vacuum that Hamas exploited.

They are still firing rockets and Mortars now dozens have been fired this month.

link?

And what exactly is the relevance of this? You were talking about a two state solution so why did you ignore Fatah and then instead focus on Hamas?