What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[Azakel]

Science was invented by the Pagan Greeks long before Christianity.

Regards,
Scott

And the Romans and the Egyptian.

 

[jamaesi]

You will find between 1000000 people who can see..you will find one blind!..Why you see only what you think it is bad.. God gives the blind more power in other senses..so he can ear better than you as example.

Not to nitpick, but about 1.2% percent of the population of the world is blind, either partially or fully. So it's more like about 1 in a 100 people are blind.

PS- I don't really think G-d personally cursed or blessed me with any of my disabilities, G-d just created a world where they do happen- I just know people get sick, people become or are born disabled, and people die... it's just how life and health works. Please don't use us as pawns.

 

[vandervalley]

Not to nitpick, but about 1.2% percent of the population of the world is blind, either partially or fully. So it's more like about 1 in a 100 people are blind.

PS- I don't really think G-d personally cursed or blessed me with any of my disabilities, G-d just created a world where they do happen- I just know people get sick, people become or are born disabled, and people die... it's just how life and health works. Please don't use us as pawns.

Thank you for the reply. I'd like to ask further questions. So did God know that the world he was going to create will have all these misfortunes?

 

[Popeyesays]

And the Romans and the Egyptian.

Engineering and some math, leaning heavily on engineering are Egyptian and Berber without doubt.

regards,
Scott

 

[Azakel]

Engineering and some math, leaning heavily on engineering are Egyptian and Berber without doubt.

regards,
Scott

True, I was watching a show this morning before work on how the Egyptian were the first known to have all different doctors for stuff, Eye, teeth, skin, and they were real good on what they did, way before there time, but I don't want to off topic this tread any more. Maybe a new thread, thought I don't know what.

 

[Scott1]

So what if you could write a book today? You couldn't have written a book like the Quran 1400 years ago and no one still can. Allah gave Muhammad (peace be upon him) this book bit by bit and there is nothing wrong with it.

Listen my friend.... it boils down to a CHOICE.... it's a CHOICE on what you choose to believe... Jews have their "evidence", Christians their "evidence", and you have your "evidence".... there were several other books written before and after the Koran that made remarkable claims.... again, it boils down to a personal CHOICE what "evidence" is compelling or not to a person. I personally don't find the scientific "evidence" in the Koran any more compelling than the "proven" prophecy in the Bible....
What I mean is, I didn't become a Christian because I thought the Bible was so special... I became a Christian because I fell in love with God... and in my search of religions found one that showed me that GOD LOVED ME BACK.

And what is this son and father thing, the Quran does not support this, if you say you are his son, it is as though you have insulted him. What gives you the right to call yourself his son? If you are his son, that means you are divine, and that must mean you will be able to do miracles.

That's the part of your faith we find so sad.... we as Christians know how much God loves us: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16.... we have a PERSONAL relationship with God the Father... a love affair that I don't see in Islam (I could have missed it).... he loves us so much that HE DOES want us to become divine: "His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature." 2 Peter 3-4 We take part in a MIRACLE every day in the Catholic Church.... we are consumed by Jesus Christ when we take the Eucharist.... the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ enters in to us and transforms us.... It is such a miracle that God loves me so much and wants that I should be a part of him spiritually AND physically every day of my life.... can Islam offer that to me?

I know you don't agree because you feel the Koran does not teach that... but YOU have to understand that we, as Christians, WOULD NEVER give up the LOVE we have for our Father to become simply a SLAVE to a "master".

I am sorry if I sound like I am offending, but I need to defend my religion and the topic is supposed to be what you feel is wrong with Islam, a lot of people have said nothing is wrong, so if nothing is wrong...then why don't you accept a religion where there is no wrong as you put it yourself.

You are not offending me... I feel sorry for you... I pray for you and yours to come to the fullness of truth.

I hope now you understand why I would never accept it, even if I don't believe this is anything wrong with Islam.

May the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God pray for us,
S

 

[MaddLlama]

There were plenty of ancient faiths/cultures, most Pagan ones included, that discovered some scientific and medical truths. They may not be able to explain them, but they got something right. Medicine and science wasn't limited to one area.

Regardless, it still doesn't mean that Islam is the only correct religion, nor is it a very good reason for anyone (including myself) to convert.

I am always baffled why people think that this reasoning will suddenly cause non-believers to drop everything and convert. That's just irrational.

 

[Popeyesays]

There were plenty of ancient faiths/cultures, most Pagan ones included, that discovered some scientific and medical truths. They may not be able to explain them, but they got something right. Medicine and science wasn't limited to one area.

Regardless, it still doesn't mean that Islam is the only correct religion, nor is it a very good reason for anyone (including myself) to convert.

I am always baffled why people think that this reasoning will suddenly cause non-believers to drop everything and convert. That's just irrational.

Faith and religion speak to the heart, not to the mind. Now the DECISION rests on rational thought and reflection but the impetus is from the heart or there is no impetus at all.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Booko]

Look, your book can NOW be scientifically accurate, but at those times there wqas no such thing as science.

Uh, with respect, S.Z., your history of science is inaccurate.

I could quote you a long list of Greek scientists that were around long before Muhammad (pbuh).

Seriously, the West knows about many of these scientists and their work because they got the information from later Muslim scholars who had preserved their work.

I grant you that science flowered greatly under Islam. Mathematics, astronomy, chemistry and medicine -- just to name a few.

Muhammad is said to have told the believers that they should search for knowledge, even unto China. They seem to have done that and during the heydey of Islam the results of that effort were evident.

To take history a step further, the Renaissance in Europe arguably would not have happened had the Europeans not run into Islamic Civilization, and without Muhammad there would be no Islamic Civilization.

So personally, I'm quite thankful the Prophet came along.

 

[Booko]

And the Romans and the Egyptian.

The Romans were not well known for their achievements in science. There achievements were in organization, administration, and of course, building.

What science they had they pretty much imported from the Greeks.

As for the Egyptians, I cannot say about them.

 

[lunamoth]

The Romans were not well known for their achievements in science. There achievements were in organization, administration, and of course, building.

What science they had they pretty much imported from the Greeks.

As for the Egyptians, I cannot say about them.

I would think that a pretty strong engineering and maths development would be needed for the architecture. Maybe just not the natural/bio sciences.

 

[Booko]

PS- I don't really think G-d personally cursed or blessed me with any of my disabilities, G-d just created a world where they do happen- I just know people get sick, people become or are born disabled, and people die... it's just how life and health works. Please don't use us as pawns.

This is still the best treatment of the subject that I've seen:

Amazon.com: When Bad Things Happen to Good People: Books: Harold S. Kushner

 

[almifkhar]

the problem with islam is not islam itself. the problem is that the vast majority of the so called followers do not practice in life what was set down to begin with.

 

[Scott1]

the problem with islam is not islam itself. the problem is that the vast majority of the so called followers do not practice in life what was set down to begin with.

And I would say that the extreme frequency that "so called followers" seem to miss the mark with such a CLEAR, CONSICE, PERFECT, NOBLE, INFALLIBLE book to teach them shows the true error: the book can not teach-- people teach.

 

[moegypt]

Yes I really appreciate your responses and I would thank you more if you can eradicate all my doubts ablout Islam.

So how does God choose who to receive misfortunes? If you say that God give misfortunes to those who don't believe in him; then why some babies got HIV? Those babies didn't do nothing wrong

thanks very much for your words,

i will talk according to my faith islam,

No i don't say and i don't accept that God give misfortunes to those who don't believe in him... So i think you should visit Egypt to see misforunes with your eyes

I will talk about any misfortune.. In Qur'an GOD says to us:

(47:31) " And We shall try you until We test those among you who strive their utmost and persevere in patience; and We shall try your reported (mettle)".

(3:142) " Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast? "

( 64:11) " No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah. and if any one believes in Allah, ((Allah)) guides his heart (aright): for Allah knows all things"

Anyone must be tested.. there are alot of tests.. this is GOD wisdom.. if you be patient and believe in Allah, the Most Gracious and the Most Merciful as he want not as we want...

(2:155) Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,
(2:156) Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return"
(2:157) They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.

You will go to heaven and you will never die again.

(50:31) And the Garden (heaven) will be brought nigh to the Righteous,- no more a thing distant.
(50:32) (A voice will say) "This is what was promised for you,- for every one who turned (to Allah. in sincere repentance, who kept (His Law),
(50:33) "Who feared ((Allah)) Most Gracious Unseen, and brought a heart turned in devotion (to Him):
(50:34) "Enter ye therein in Peace and Security; this is a Day of Eternal Life!"
(50:35) There will be for them therein all that they wish,- and more besides in Our Presence.

thanks alot and sorry for huge answer.

 

[YmirGF]

I guess none of the Muslims in this thread feel like trying to answer the questions posed in my post (#84), eh. I wonder why that is? And PLEASE, Popeyesays let the Muslims answer if they dare. After that you are welcome to give your rather unique viewpoint if you feel it is warranted.

 

[almifkhar]

right scott, this comming from the man who says there is nothing wrong with kneeling down in front of a idol and praying. your claim if i remember right was that because it is sanctioned by your church it is perfectly fine even though your bible says other wise many, many times.

my point is, there is nothing wrong with the books, what is wrong is the people picking and chosing what they will and will not obey in those books. this is not just an islamic problem, this is a hindu, christian, jewish, etc. problem. another problem which i aluded to above is that we believers find ourselves listening to people we should not listen to. sometimes we are born into this, and sometimes we seek this. it doesn't make it right either way. this is why it is up to us to study this stuff and learn it for our selves even it it takes years to do. only then will we find ourselves on the right path.

 

[summia]

Salaam Alaikum!
May Allah Almighty save me and you, amin!

Question #2: Why is it that Muslim writers tend to use "circular logic" in their arguments?

It is a logic error and yet most seem to merrily dance past it without the slightest thought or consideration.

Where you have seen such responces?

Their reasoning is usually "The Quran is the word of god because no one else is capable of writing a book like the Quran, therefore it must be from God".

not due to only this reason. there are several reasons about "Quran is the word of God".
if you think this reason is not an argumant then bring your own argument at the post to prove this argument false.

Usually this is then followed by cut and pastes of various ayaats that are theoretically in support of their points. This is unseemly to say the very least.

Show me any one responce from muslims here that behave as you're saying. Rather they used to support Islam, and what is Islam "The Quran and the prophetic sayings" So, why they shuld not quote from Quran as Quran is the source of Islam!

Question #3: Is this circular reasoning supposed to be "logical thinking" or do Muslims in fact have a different sense of logic than do kafir's?

What I mean here is do Muslims simply think differently from non-muslims? It is as if the "common Muslim" is trained precisely the same way, as they almost always make the same presentations that are summarily rebuked as being unsound reasoning. Curiously that does not seem to stop many Muslims and they simply make fools of themselves in the process. As some have observed those arguments may be compelling the fellow Muslims, but the kafir's simply roll their eyes as the Muslim writers commit intellectual suicide. Why is that, do you think?

Have you seen any muslim here that disrespect jesus?(I mean sying Jesus was a false man)
although, you have seen many here, those without taking care of muslims belief, they used to hurt muslims by directly saying that "Muhammad pbuh was a false person".
You know how much muslims love to muhammad! more then their own souls.
on the other hand, you will see no muslim here to hurt non muslims by saying "Your jesus was false", have you seen any post here?
The reason is simple, kafir's (non muslims) are not in favour of listening except their own possession. That created the differences between the understanding of muslims and non muslims.
I was shocked when i have read at my Thread, a non muslim used to say "Dont you want to win the Thread?" I was shocked!
because I was not here to win myself. then i realize the mantality of non muslims.
you know, a single non muslim, a single, never came forward to help me for betterment of my english rather they used to mocked at me.
And she was my sister, fullyveiled muslimah, who said "whenever you need me to express youself then i'm here to help you (although i have insulted her at the post, despite this all she said), and don't feel that you are unable to mix in the community" she made me confident. Who was she? she was muslim!
That is the difference between muslims and non muslims.
They are never in support of muslims but they are always in try to knock down, to pull the legs of others, specially with the muslim.
So herez the difference between muslims' and non muslims' understanding.

 

[summia]

Question #4: Is it not true that it simply does not matter what one thinks of Islam, as the real question is if one believe in the authenticity of Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] and if he spoke literally for "God"?

The reason for this is that Muhammed [pbuh] was either making it up as he went (hence the incredibly long time it took to write such a thin volume) or in fact he was directed by "God" to warn mankind of their impending doom if they ignored his words.

If Muhammad pbuh was making it up as he went then why he favored Jesus and accept Jesus as humble prophet in Quran?
When someone tries to write in against of any religion, he don't used to praise the masseah of opposite religion, it is the clear fact.
Muslims believe Quran not for the reason that Quran is revealed at muhammad pbuh. even if it would reveal on you, we were surly to believe it because Quran is the word of God and says the truth. how it says, for this we need to learn Arabic for deep study of Quran.
non muslims used to say "Quran is false and false and false and that's it"
but muslims used to say "Bible has changed, it is not false but it has changed" they believe that Taurah and Injeel was revealed but has changed now. now the last revealation that will never ever changed is Quran.

Now you can easily check the behavior of a muslim and non muslim here.

They used to point out,"Why Quran is in Arabic, we are unable to undrstand"
Are they not know their own Bible is in Hebrew and Hebrew is never spoken in any area in the world of current time.
This is unjust! you can see, you are wise Paul.

If you Object that Why Muhammad pbuh write the little mini volume Book, and then why he litrary express the God's punishment. then I ask, "What you want Pual? if a litrary stuff is not important for you then what is Authentic in your sight?"
I will only say, you need to look at yourself!

What I mean is that only fools will attack Islamic dogma when the real prize is the Prophet himself.

look!
putting the plain statement is not the argument. do you know, how much you are trying to hurt all the muslims here, because they love muhammad so much as Christains love Jesus so much. you are putting plain statement here without your arguments.
By this statement you are trying to say that all the muslims here present in the world (a majority) is fool. then i ask you, what you are?

If you believe him, then there is only one choice, and that is very clear. If one does not believe he was an authentic prophet of God, then there too, one makes a very clear choice.

Paul! Paul! plz for God sake!
It is not so simple, if this then surly that!
your estimation is wrong. we are not saying that it was revealed on muhmmad pbuh and therefore it is the word of God. we believe, that Quran is the word of God because it is eveident in the world.
If any one claims to be the prophet of God then, I'll say "Bring the evidence"

In essence, it is all very cut and dried. Yes or No...

No! because you have not understand the muslims' belief yet!

as attitudes towards Islam itself are beside the point because if one does not accept the prophethood of Muhammed [pbuh], conjecture about Islam itself is moot.

I want to understand Why is so jelousy about Muhammad pbuh!
Look! when i used to deny Christianity, i didn't used to point out the pesonalities. i tries to put argumants and facts. Why you again and again used to point out muhammad as it seems you have jelousy about him?
You know, what behavior you show up to still now before me, all is mentioned in Quran. All!
it made my trust more frim at Quran!

 

[vandervalley]

(47:31) " And We shall try you until We test those among you who strive their utmost and persevere in patience; and We shall try your reported (mettle)".

(3:142) " Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast? "

( 64:11) " No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah. and if any one believes in Allah, ((Allah)) guides his heart (aright): for Allah knows all things"

I see what you mean now; so Allah wants to test people before letting them into heaven.

But what if a person helps the poor and save lifes but just don't believe in Allah?

Would that person go to heaven?