What do you feel is wrong with Islam?

[S.Z (Muslim)]

To Popeyesays:
Uh...S.Z. This is a debate area of the forum and debates have tactics. You are not a tactic -- you are a fellow human being. To say that your tactics are not effective says nothing at all about you as a person.

Yes and my tactic is giving facts.

 

[Booko]

Sorry I posted the wrong thing, heh. Anyways you need to understand that if you write about Chemistry NOW, it won't make you a prophet but if you wrote it 1400 years ago, it would have been quite different.

How so? If my book is scientifically accurate then it means I know what God wants for us, or at least that's the logic you're using regarding the Qu'ran.

And sorry..hwat did you explain again, when you said no big deal?

Why I believe in Muhammad as a Prophet but am not a Muslim.

 

[Prometheus]

It is a sin because only God has the power to take your life away, and you are being cowardly and not wanting to face difficulties in life,etc.

Notice how you said, "your life." It is my life, not God's. I own my life and I can take it if I wish. Also, to call every suicide a cowardly act is an ignorant statement which would no doubt be hurtful to many. However, that is neither here nor there.

What I wanted to know is where in Islam is this doctrine taught?

 

[YmirGF]

Question #2: Why is it that Muslim writers tend to use "circular logic" in their arguments?

It is a logic error and yet most seem to merrily dance past it without the slightest thought or consideration. Their reasoning is usually "The Quran is the word of god because no one else is capable of writing a book like the Quran, therefore it must be from God". Usually this is then followed by cut and pastes of various ayaats that are theoretically in support of their points. This is unseemly to say the very least.

Question #3: Is this circular reasoning supposed to be "logical thinking" or do Muslims in fact have a different sense of logic than do kafir's?

What I mean here is do Muslims simply think differently from non-muslims? It is as if the "common Muslim" is trained precisely the same way, as they almost always make the same presentations that are summarily rebuked as being unsound reasoning. Curiously that does not seem to stop many Muslims and they simply make fools of themselves in the process. As some have observed those arguments may be compelling the fellow Muslims, but the kafir's simply roll their eyes as the Muslim writers commit intellectual suicide. Why is that, do you think?

Question #4: Is it not true that it simply does not matter what one thinks of Islam, as the real question is if one believe in the authenticity of Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] and if he spoke literally for "God"?

The reason for this is that Muhammed [pbuh] was either making it up as he went (hence the incredibly long time it took to write such a thin volume) or in fact he was directed by "God" to warn mankind of their impending doom if they ignored his words.

What I mean is that only fools will attack Islamic dogma when the real prize is the Prophet himself. If you believe him, then there is only one choice, and that is very clear. If one does not believe he was an authentic prophet of God, then there too, one makes a very clear choice. In essence, it is all very cut and dried. Yes or No... as attitudes towards Islam itself are beside the point because if one does not accept the prophethood of Muhammed [pbuh], conjecture about Islam itself is moot.

 

[Popeyesays]

I think, MZ, that you're problem is primarily inexperience with English.

When you invite people to tell you what they perceive to be problems in Islam so that you can clear up their "misunderstandings" and see what is so obvious to yourself it comes off as very pompous and conceited.

We are as capable as you of understanding your arguments and accepting or dismissing them, or arguing with them. However your attitude is that we are all to stupid to understand your simple logic.

As i said, this is because you are dealing with people in a language that isnot your primary language.

Please consider what I am saying, perhaps it will clear up your misconceptions as to how clear you are being.

regards,
Scott

 

[vandervalley]

i have a question for the "One-God" worshippers.

If there is God then why does he give us free will and created a hell at the same time and send those who doesnt believe him to hell?

Does this mean he likes to see people go to hell? Obviously he knew that some people would not believe in him if they are given free will

 

[moegypt]

i have a question for the "One-God" worshippers.

If there is God then why does he give us free will and created a hell at the same time and send those who doesnt believe him to hell?

Does this mean he likes to see people go to hell? Obviously he knew that some people would not believe in him if they are given free will

Ok, Allah(GOD) give you free will .... but don't forget that you can not live without thing that hasn't colour..hasn't taste..hasn't smell.. It is water!.. SO you are so weak.

If you live on his Earth.. under his sky.. eat from his garden.. breathe his air.. have billions of cells in your mind.. ability to love, to hate, to happy, to sad, to enjoy sex!!

It is obvious.. Very very very obvious

If you look at anything! anything, You will find his power, you will find his mercy..

You live on earth, which fly and you fly with it in the space.. Who make this? Who save earth from loss in this extremely huge space ? it is very obious.

After all this.. if you don't believe in the God You (not you but as example) must go hell..

because you did not (not you again) use your mind nor your feelings to know the god.
or do you think that God was playing when he created us?!!!!

 

[vandervalley]

well if ur God did create everything then he also created cancer, viruses and death. Why even create theses misfortunes? unless he likes to see people suffer. He might as well just take away the free will and so no one will suffer the misfortunes.

What about babies born of HIV? did ur God also created the HIV babies?

another thing is that a divine being should not have the slightest desire to kill any living being either by fire or flood or any other means.

 

[MFaraz_Hayat]

The Bible has nothing WRONG in it either. Contradiction is not error. It can either be rectified by trying, or it can be shown to be immaterial.

The Qur'an does seemingly contradict itself. In one place it says it is forbidden to be drunk while praying. Yet in another it is forbidden to drink at all and ever be drunk.

Why? Because the laws concerning alcohol were revealed slowly over time.

The Qur'an, much to the chagrin of many Muslims, was NOT an instantaneous thing. It did not happen all at once but was revealed over decades.

Regards,
Scott

Sorry, but i don't agree with your "contradiction in quran" part. Quranic teachings have to be followed on the whole. I agree that in one verse it is written that people should not approach prayers when they are drunk and that in another it is written that they should not drink at all.
But this is not a contradiction: If we don't drink at all, automatically we are following the teaching of other verse, of not approaching prayers when drunk. For if one doesnot drink, how can he approach prayers when he is drunk?
I can give an example: If I say that a person has not passed eleventh class and then say that he has not passed seventh class. Am I contradicting myself? It is understood that if he has not passed seventh, he has not pass eleventh.

 

[summia]

.... and THEN continues with "as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, the Christian...."

Pretty clear to me.

So, what about this verse of Quran?


وَقَالُواْ لَن يَدْخُلَ ٱلْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَن كَانَ هُوداً أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ تِلْكَ أَمَانِيُّهُمْ قُلْ هَاتُواْ بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِن كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ

And they say None entereth Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian These are their own desires Say, Bring your proofs if ye are truthful (2:111)


Why are you taking only one verse of Quran, is it the whole Quran? (I'm taking about 2:62) why taking verse only for your perpose and showing it?
Perhapes I have cleared this many times!

 

[summia]

No... I'm a Christian.... and you have avoided my point that the Koran teaches me that I don't need to convert.

.

Havn't I clearified you about that verse? so whats your opinion next

Don't , I was just kidding. No one can force you!
But the point that you are creating form Quranic teaching is not so as you took it!

 

[rasor]

"Proud Slave of Allah."

Thats one reason ^ These people leave there reasoning to someone else.

 

[storm2020]

Is it the Quran that teaches the oppression of women or is it just the countries themselves?
What I don't like about islamic countries is how westerners must cover up in their countries but muslim people in western countries are allowed to wear hijabs despite the highlighted security risks.
I think most of the negativity is from muslims such as the ones who protested against the danish cartoons with banners that read "behead those who insult islam" and the fact that they emergrate into western countries, live off the stste and then preach hate and how immoral the west is. Of course these are individuals and they may well be the minority but these are the ones making the headlines and prodce a huge negative reaction against a whole muslim community and their seemedly lack of intergration into the western communities in which they live.

Do you think those muslims who choose to live in western countries should intergrate more into western culture?

 

[Popeyesays]

Oppression of women is endemic to Arab Culture, it predates Islam by centuries.

Muhammed enacted laws which liberated women to great degrees from what they had to endure before hand.

The Quran defines "modest" dress for men and women and stipulates that women must cover their limbs and torso. The Burqa and the veil are NOT prescribed in the Qur'an they are hang overs of mistreatment of women from long before Islam re-enacted AFTER the death of Muhammed by followers who forget what Muhammed taught.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

"Slave" is one meaning of the word "Abdu". It is better translated by "Servant".

My own faith teaches that all of mankind are the Servants of God, whether they want to be or not.

Regards.

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

well if ur God did create everything then he also created cancer, viruses and death. Why even create theses misfortunes? unless he likes to see people suffer. He might as well just take away the free will and so no one will suffer the misfortunes.

What about babies born of HIV? did ur God also created the HIV babies?

another thing is that a divine being should not have the slightest desire to kill any living being either by fire or flood or any other means.

Death is the nature of this material world. Everyone dies, it is the ultimate justice. What one makes of this life is the opportunity to come into the next life with the fruit of this one in your hands.

I do NOT believe in hell other than as a metaphor for separation from God. I do NOT believe such separation is permanent:
"LXXXI. And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of 156 God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 155)

Regards,
Scott

 

[vandervalley]

ok. So in Bahai faith; does one need to believe in God in order to go to heaven?

What if a person does things like saving lifes and helping the poor but just dont't believe in one God; does that person get to go to heaven?

 

[rocka21]

Hello, I am new here so I hope we will all get along.
The question pretty much says it. What do you feel is wrong with Islam?
You can ask any question, I will answer it politely.

i don't want all the wemon of the world dressed in black top to bottom with just there eyes showing.

what bondage!

 

[Booko]

well if ur God did create everything then he also created cancer, viruses and death. Why even create theses misfortunes? unless he likes to see people suffer. He might as well just take away the free will and so no one will suffer the misfortunes.

What about babies born of HIV? did ur God also created the HIV babies?

another thing is that a divine being should not have the slightest desire to kill any living being either by fire or flood or any other means.

Vandervalley, interesting questions, but they're really taking this thread off its intended purpose.

Would you please start a new thread with the questions? I'm sure many people will jump in and participate if you do.

 

[Booko]

Sorry, but i don't agree with your "contradiction in quran" part. Quranic teachings have to be followed on the whole. I agree that in one verse it is written that people should not approach prayers when they are drunk and that in another it is written that they should not drink at all.
But this is not a contradiction: If we don't drink at all, automatically we are following the teaching of other verse, of not approaching prayers when drunk. For if one doesnot drink, how can he approach prayers when he is drunk?
I can give an example: If I say that a person has not passed eleventh class and then say that he has not passed seventh class. Am I contradicting myself? It is understood that if he has not passed seventh, he has not pass eleventh.

Scott mentioned that the law regarding alcohol was revealed over time, and so it was.

Alcohol was allowed initially, but when men began to show up for prayers drunk, proving they couldn't handle their booze, Muhammad revealed that alcohol would be banned altogether.

But because Muslims sometimes attended to their daily prayer while inebriate, hardly conscious of what they were saying, a warning was given to them, as conveyed in surah iv -- an-Nisa' ('Women'): 'O true believers, come not to prayers when ye are drunk, until ye understand what ye say . . .' (v. 46.)[1] However, the situation remained unresolved and probably chaotic until the Prophet pronounced His interdiction. 'They will ask thee concerning wine and arrow-shuffling;[5] say, "In both there is great sin and profit for the people, but their sinfulness is greater than their profit."' (Surah ii, 216: al-Baqarah -- 'The Cow'.)
[1 A kind of gambling.] 90

(H.M. Balyuzi, Muhammad and the Course of Islam, p. 89)

In conclusion, the seemingly contradictory ayats are not contradictory at all.

Which rather proves Scott's point, I would think.