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What if we accepted each other's religion?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And the way to do that would be to adopt Abrahamic god-beliefs?

Sorry... but that just makes no sense.

The Baha'i teaching of the oneness of humanity is not about accepting any religion. It simply means to put humanity first above national, racial, religious and political agendas. Multi-cultural societies brought about by migration is a first step to try and integrate the different people into a united diverse one but there will be setbacks. However this is a process that is ongoing. A work in progress if you like.

The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation and end hostility between them. Interfaith is a sign that this process has begun but it has maybe centuries to go.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation and end hostility between them. Interfaith is a sign that this process has begun but it has maybe centuries to go.
What exactly do you mean by "The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation?"
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
What exactly do you mean by "The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation?"
The use of the word "reconcile" is troubling. Who works out what is what? Do we just smile and go along with the Bahia regurgitations on the matters? Sort of a "shut up and eat your vegetables" approach?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
The use of the word "reconcile" is troubling. Who works out what is what? Do we just smile and go along with the Bahia regurgitations on the matters? Sort of a "shut up and eat your vegetables" approach?
I also found the herding references (bring together) troubling.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
What exactly do you mean by "The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation?"

Well we can't have peace while each religion considers itself superior to all the others and all others are to be condemned. This has led to and is continuing to lead to wars and conflict.

There is truth in all the religions and none is superior. Religious fanaticism is very harmful. Religion is meant to create harmony and peace not destruction.

Harmful interpretations and misconceptions have led religionists to believe only their religion is true and all others are false.

Is there a more moderate and unifying interpretation of all these seemingly conflicting religions? We believe there is a way of seeing them as complimentary.

It is quite easy to accept each other's Faith if we discard the concept that our religion is superior. Oneness emphasises the harmony of all religions and tries to educate that they are all truth and none is superior. The emphasis of superiority comes from the immaturity of the leaders of religion who, instead of promoting love and harmony often promote an agenda of superiority, that their brand are the 'chosen people' and this is harmful.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The use of the word "reconcile" is troubling. Who works out what is what? Do we just smile and go along with the Bahia regurgitations on the matters? Sort of a "shut up and eat your vegetables" approach?

We just try and see the good in each other and work for humanity. What is wrong with all the religions coming together and working for the food of humanity? Instead of fighting and killing? I don't see anything wrong if religions drop the superiority act.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation and end hostility between them. Interfaith is a sign that this process has begun but it has maybe centuries to go.

How do you propose to end hostilities between faiths making conflicting and contradicting claims? Further, given that your claims only relate to the major revealed religions; how do non-monotheistic and/or non-revealed religions fit into this grand plan of Bahai unification?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
How do you propose to end hostilities between faiths making conflicting and contradicting claims? Further, given that your claims only relate to the major revealed religions; how do non-monotheistic and/or non-revealed religions fit into this grand plan of Bahai unification?

By promoting the oneness of mankind. People have been educated to love their family, their race, their religion, their country successfully and successively - now the time has come for humanity to learn to love humankind and this education is taking place now and is a work in progress. All can join in and need not be Bahai.

It does not entail the surrendering of any belief or conversion to any religion only the abandoning of the concept of superiority.

The oneness and equality of humanity needs to be taught in all the schools of the world so all people regard themselves as fellow human beings. This is happening now.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The Baha'i teaching of the oneness of humanity is not about accepting any religion. It simply means to put humanity first above national, racial, religious and political agendas. Multi-cultural societies brought about by migration is a first step to try and integrate the different people into a united diverse one but there will be setbacks. However this is a process that is ongoing. A work in progress if you like.

Then it would appear to me that both Islam and the Bahai Faith are their own worst enemies in being so hasty to decree themselves the fully realized monotheistic successors / refinements of other religions. Because monotheism, particularly when mixed with political ambitions, is the scourge of respect for diversity.

The oneness of religion is a different teaching that seeks to reconcile and bring together the faiths in cooperation and end hostility between them. Interfaith is a sign that this process has begun but it has maybe centuries to go.
To the extent that I understand what you mean by "oneness" of religion I can't help but find it tragically misguided as goals go.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Then it would appear to me that both Islam and the Bahai Faith are their own worst enemies in being so hasty to decree themselves the fully realized monotheistic successors / refinements of other religions. Because monotheism, particularly when mixed with political ambitions, is the scourge of respect for diversity.


To the extent that I understand what you mean by "oneness" of religion I can't help but find it tragically misguided as goals go.

Unity in diversity is a major principle of our Faith.

As to being the successor to other Faiths. We believe they were all part of an unfolding of progressive truth revealed to man age by age and that continues. The Baha'is Faith is only the latest stage of our spiritual evolution but there will be other Teachers Who will come in the future when we are ready for more truth.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Well we can't have peace while each religion considers itself superior to all the others and all others are to be condemned. This has led to and is continuing to lead to wars and conflict.

There is truth in all the religions and none is superior. Religious fanaticism is very harmful. Religion is meant to create harmony and peace not destruction.

And right here I must point out that you are wrong. It seems to harmless to state that "all religions" have truth and "none are superior". But when you look at it, it is a terrible mistake to do so.

Why? Because, quite simply, people often hold tragically misguided beliefs. That is just a plain fact that we all must deal with, even as we do our best to attain mutual respect and understanding.

We can't have or even truly approach harmony and the avoidance of fanaticism if we feel duty-bound to treat misguided beliefs as if they were valid. Or instead, only slightly better a choice, to convince ourselves that those beliefs are somehow not worth of consideration despite our own self-imposed goal of respecting "all religions".

That is just not something that can be made to work. It is attempting to deal with a very real challenge by pretending that it needs no true effort. It is hoping for things to magically fall into place to our convenience despite a conscious refusal to acknowledge the need to do something to solve conflicts.

Religious disagreement should be embraced and clearly stated, not glossed over.

It is ok to disagree and learn to live with that.

It is even ok to think that one's beliefs are more correct than those of others, as long as we also understand that each person must ultimately make his or her own choices far as religious matters go.

It helps to realize that different people will actually have different needs and different abilities to handle various religious concepts and models. Which is to say, there is no single religious approach that will be better for everyone. Some people need more in the way of artistic inspiration, others need social interaction or concrete, undeniable, tangible attainments in this world. That is just how things are and what we should deal with.

Sure, it can be troubling to deal with the idea of some people simply needing to go in directions that are unhealthy for ourselves. It used to be very difficult for me to accept that.


Harmful interpretations and misconceptions have led religionists to believe only their religion is true and all others are false.

True enough.

Is there a more moderate and unifying interpretation of all these seemingly conflicting religions? We believe there is a way of seeing them as complimentary.

For that to be possible, such an interpretation would need to be not so much "moderate" as it would actually need to be bold, ambitious and complex. Religion needs an edge of sorts to make much of a difference. It must connect with and respect the deeper, most difficult aspects of each person. Moderation is not always possible or advisable in such a deeply personal field. Specifically, quite a few people need to develop and nurture their passion outright, to learn to be more daring and more extreme (despite that very approach being dangerous and poisonous to others). Half of healthy religion is acknowledging who the practicioner is.


It is quite easy to accept each other's Faith if we discard the concept that our religion is superior. Oneness emphasises the harmony of all religions and tries to educate that they are all truth and none is superior. The emphasis of superiority comes from the immaturity of the leaders of religion who, instead of promoting love and harmony often promote an agenda of superiority, that their brand are the 'chosen people' and this is harmful.
I hope I am wrong, but it sure sounds that you hope that all people will eventually be convinced of the One True Way and we should simply be patient (as opposed to understanding, respectful and questioning) if they do not seem inclined to cooperate with that hope.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Unity in diversity is a major principle of our Faith.

As to being the successor to other Faiths. We believe they were all part of an unfolding of progressive truth revealed to man age by age and that continues. The Baha'is Faith is only the latest stage of our spiritual evolution but there will be other Teachers Who will come in the future when we are ready for more truth.
Well, I guess that is a good example of the reasons why I rejected the Faith after being interested in it for a short while years ago.

It is stuck in slightly disguised presumptions of superiority of "all other" religions even as it fails at the rather basic need to overcome the shortcomings that proselitist monotheism imposes on it.

As long as you presume that all people "would or will" eventually become monotheists, you can be certain that you are wrong. Monotheism is simply not a proper belief for everyone, nor will it ever be in the foreseeable future. Or probably ever.

Come to think of it, I seriously doubt religion that emphasizes monotheism and revelation can recover much of its relevance. It has clearly attained as much wisdom as it is ever likely to some time ago.

Edited to add: Which brings me to another worrying thought. For all the insistence in oneness, I fear there is preciously little indication that the Bahai Faith (or for that matter, Islam and Christianity) are even capable of learning enough from others to even consider true acceptance of a non-revealed, non-monotheistic perspective.

Figuratively, all their chips seem to be on the bet that there is a "true" religion and that it will eventually turn out to have been revealed by the one true God. And that is IMO clearly not a bet that can be made to succeed.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And right here I must point out that you are wrong. It seems to harmless to state that "all religions" have truth and "none are superior". But when you look at it, it is a terrible mistake to do so.

Why? Because, quite simply, people often hold tragically misguided beliefs. That is just a plain fact that we all must deal with, even as we do our best to attain mutual respect and understanding.

We can't have or even truly approach harmony and the avoidance of fanaticism if we feel duty-bound to treat misguided beliefs as if they were valid. Or instead, only slightly better a choice, to convince ourselves that those beliefs are somehow not worth of consideration despite our own self-imposed goal of respecting "all religions".

That is just not something that can be made to work. It is attempting to deal with a very real challenge by pretending that it needs no true effort. It is hoping for things to magically fall into place to our convenience despite a conscious refusal to acknowledge the need to do something to solve conflicts.

Religious disagreement should be embraced and clearly stated, not glossed over.

It is ok to disagree and learn to live with that.

It is even ok to think that one's beliefs are more correct than those of others, as long as we also understand that each person must ultimately make his or her own choices far as religious matters go.

It helps to realize that different people will actually have different needs and different abilities to handle various religious concepts and models. Which is to say, there is no single religious approach that will be better for everyone. Some people need more in the way of artistic inspiration, others need social interaction or concrete, undeniable, tangible attainments in this world. That is just how things are and what we should deal with.

Sure, it can be troubling to deal with the idea of some people simply needing to go in directions that are unhealthy for ourselves. It used to be very difficult for me to accept that.




True enough.



For that to be possible, such an interpretation would need to be not so much "moderate" as it would actually need to be bold, ambitious and complex. Religion needs an edge of sorts to make much of a difference. It must connect with and respect the deeper, most difficult aspects of each person. Moderation is not always possible or advisable in such a deeply personal field. Specifically, quite a few people need to develop and nurture their passion outright, to learn to be more daring and more extreme (despite that very approach being dangerous and poisonous to others). Half of healthy religion is acknowledging who the practicioner is.



I hope I am wrong, but it sure sounds that you hope that all people will eventually be convinced of the One True Way and we should simply be patient (as opposed to understanding, respectful and questioning) if they do not seem inclined to cooperate with that hope.

Ok first. The oneness of humanity it's aim is 'Broadening of vision' not an 'only way' because within the concept you can still love your family, religion, race and country just the mind is broadened to include others.

There is truth in all religions means that we accept what is true but we use education to try and help,people overcome harmful attitudes like superiority and fanaticism with opposite teachings of equality and cooperation.

So we know there are views that are as you put it 'tragically misguided' and we tackle that with education. We have a universal education program that does this and is used by governments as well as by Baha'is.

It is complex to have an interpretation that unites which is why we don't interpret ourselves but use the Baha'i Writings which explain things in a harmonious manner.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
As a Baha'i I find accepting others religions to be not only workable but creates unity and friendship and peace between us. We accept the Prophet, Messenger or Messiah and His Holy Book and all humanity as a family and it works.

We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.

This is a call to peace and love and unity!

The problem with believers is that they believe in different and self contradicting Gods.

I propose to simplify things and to unite under global atheism. At least we will all agree on the main characteristic of God: His not existence.

Ciao

- viole
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The problem with believers is that they believe in different and self contradicting Gods.

I propose to simplify things and to unite under global atheism. At least we will all agree on the main characteristic of God: His not existence.

Ciao

- viole
Amen to that, momma. :)
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Ok first. The oneness of humanity it's aim is 'Broadening of vision' not an 'only way' because within the concept you can still love your family, religion, race and country just the mind is broadened to include others.

There is truth in all religions means that we accept what is true but we use education to try and help,people overcome harmful attitudes like superiority and fanaticism with opposite teachings of equality and cooperation.

So we know there are views that are as you put it 'tragically misguided' and we tackle that with education. We have a universal education program that does this and is used by governments as well as by Baha'is.

This I like.

It is complex to have an interpretation that unites which is why we don't interpret ourselves but use the Baha'i Writings which explain things in a harmonious manner.
This I do not.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The problem with believers is that they believe in different and self contradicting Gods.

I propose to simplify things and to unite under global atheism. At least we will all agree on the main characteristic of God: His not existence.

Ciao

- viole
Actually, that is pretty close to my hopes for the future. Except that making a point of denying the existence of deities is still too much of a distraction from the real issues.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Actually, that is pretty close to my hopes for the future. Except that making a point of denying the existence of deities is still too much of a distraction from the real issues.

Without theists left? Nah. It would be like being distracted by denying the existence of bigfoot.

Ciao

- viole
 
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