Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Yes there is an expectation of males to be the decision makers, - head of household. I told you I have read many of the Baha'i books.
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What if we accepted each other's religion?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Yes there is an expectation of males to be the decision makers, - head of household. I told you I have read many of the Baha'i books.
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ak.yonathan
Active Member
There is something called Chrislam, although many deem it a heresy.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
This is a list of the discrimination between men and women in Baha'i:
1- Women receive a smaller share from inheritance.
2- Men have to pay dowry to women.
3- Men can practice polygamy but women cannot.
4- women cannot be members of the UHJ.
5- The station of the Guardianship is reserved solely for men (this station turned out to be a miserable failure)
6- Women have been exempted from Baha'i pilgrimage but men must participate in it.
7- Baha'u'llah refers to his male descendants as branches and to the female as leaves.
8- If the marriage contract includes virginity, man can demand dowry if he finds out wife was not a virgin, if wife finds out husband was not a virgin she can't demand anything.
9- Women must obey men.
Feel free to add anything to this list.
1- Women receive a smaller share from inheritance.
2- Men have to pay dowry to women.
3- Men can practice polygamy but women cannot.
4- women cannot be members of the UHJ.
5- The station of the Guardianship is reserved solely for men (this station turned out to be a miserable failure)
6- Women have been exempted from Baha'i pilgrimage but men must participate in it.
7- Baha'u'llah refers to his male descendants as branches and to the female as leaves.
8- If the marriage contract includes virginity, man can demand dowry if he finds out wife was not a virgin, if wife finds out husband was not a virgin she can't demand anything.
9- Women must obey men.
Feel free to add anything to this list.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
That is the most vacuous thing I have seen on here in some time. Accept all religions and all of their books even though many contradict each other??? Does that include the thousands of dead religions as well???
Women are given the utmost consideration in Baha'i laws. Like if there is not enough money to educate both children between a male and a female the female takes precedence as she is the future mother. She is to receive education above the male.
"If there is not money enough in a family to educate both the girl and the boy the money must be dedicated to the girl’s education, for she is the potential mother." Abdul-Baha
Where is that discrimination against the woman?
The contradiction is not between the Divine Teachings of each religion but the man made. Also, the social laws were only relevant for the age they were given and were always meant to be renewed by a later Prophet. If we accept the Divine we can accept all the major Faiths. I have and so has millions of others and it works.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
The discrimination is in everything already mentioned.
As stated - Baha'i raises the status of women - but not in true equality - only in trying to raise the woman's PLACE to more equity with Men's PLACE. They do not want to get ride of that PLACE!
This is not true equality when they want men to retain power in household, church, etc.
We have already discussed that education verse, - which in its entirety makes it plain that the reason is so the woman in her perceived PLACE as mother, can teach the children, thus raising the society. It has nothing to do with equality.
Here it is again - and the reason, - education is important, - and compulsory, - and women are the first teachers of children. It has nothing to do with equality.
"Education holds an important place in the new order of things. The education of each child is compulsory. If there is not money enough in a family to educate both the girl and the boy the money must be dedicated to the girl's education, for she is the potential mother. If there are no parents the community must educate the child. In addition to this widespread education each child must be taught a profession, art, or trade, so that every member of the community will be enabled to earn his own livelihood."
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1. If the person does not leave a will in which could be left everything to the female side and nothing to the male side. A will trumps that.also in many cultures the woman receives nothing.
2. Yes but in many cultures for thousands of years it's women who have had to pay it.
3. Polygamy is forbidden if you've read Baha'i literature. It was dependent on being absolutely just to all wives which is impossible and so Abdul-Baha said it really forbade polygamy
4. The reason will become self evident
5. All the Prophets of God have been men too we don't know why but I believe it's out of mercy not discrimination.
6 Women can go but they are exempted because it may be rigorous for them. Again mercy applied here not discrimination. Things like women having their courses are accounted for so its not made obligatory.
7. It's just a title. I see passages where Baha'u'llah exalts women over men.
"By My Life! The names of handmaidens who are devoted to God are written and set down by the Pen of the Most High in the Crimson Book. They excel over men in the sight of God."
8. They can both make out a contract specifying a virginity requirement.
In one of these cases you cite, for example, that of a wife who is found by her husband not to have been a virgin, the dissolution of the marriage can be demanded only "if the marriage has been conditioned on virginity"; presumably, therefore, if the wife wishes to exercise such a right in respect to the husband, she would have to include a condition as to his virginity in the marriage contract.(Universal House of Justice)
Here's some references to clarify a lot of the issues you appear to have misunderstood about the Baha'i Teachings.
http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_equality_monogamy_uhj.html#s3
It is apparent from the Guardian's writings that where Bahá'u'lláh has given us a law as between a man and a woman it applies mutatis mutandis between a woman and a man unless the context should make this impossible. For example, the text of the Kitab-i-Aqdas forbids a man to marry his father's wife (i.e. his step-mother), and the Guardian has indicated that likewise a woman is forbidden to marry her step-father. (House of Justice)
Yes and it also acknowledges that woman is biologically different to man. There cannot be absolute equality between the sexes as nature has determined they have differing functions so the equality is of opportunity and rights which Baha'i women enjoy alongside Baha'i men except for membership on the House of Justice.
Domination by Husband or Wife not Right
"This exhortation to the utmost degree of spirituality and self-abnegation should not be read as a legal definition giving the husband absolute authority over his wife, for, in a letter written to an individual believer on 22th July 1943, the beloved Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:
'The Guardian, in his remarks…about parents and children, wives and husbands' relations in America meant that there is a tendency in that country for children to be too independent of the wishes of their parents and lacking in the respect due to them. Also wives, in some cases, have a tendency to exert an unjust degree of domination over their husbands which, of course, is not right, anymore than that the husband should unjustly dominate his wife.' "
(Ibid.)
Time When Wife Should Defer to Husband and Time When Husband Should Defer to Wife
"In any group, however loving the consultation, there are nevertheless points on which, from time to time, agreement cannot be reached. In a Spiritual Assembly this dilemma is resolved by a majority vote. There can, however, be no majority where only two parties are involved, as in the case of a husband and wife. There are, therefore, times when a wife should defer to her husband, and times when a husband should defer to his wife, but neither should ever unjustly dominate the other. In short, the relationship between husband and wife should be as held forth in the prayer revealed by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá which is often read at Bahá’í weddings: 'Verily they are married in obedience to Thy command. Cause them to become the signs of harmony and unity until the end of time.*' "
(Ibid.)
*(Bahá’í Prayers, p. 107, 1982 ed.)
In Tablet of the World Women and Men Envisaged as Breadwinners
"In the Tablet of the World, Bahá’u’lláh Himself has envisaged that women as well as men would be breadwinners in stating:
'Everyone, whether man or woman, should hand over to a trusted person a portion of what he or she earneth through trade, agriculture or other occupation, for the training and education of children, to be spent for this purpose with the knowledge of the Trustees of the House of Justice.'"
("Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas", p. 90)
"A very important element in the attainment of such equality is Bahá’u’lláh's provision that boys and girls must follow essentially the same curriculum in schools."
"This exhortation to the utmost degree of spirituality and self-abnegation should not be read as a legal definition giving the husband absolute authority over his wife, for, in a letter written to an individual believer on 22th July 1943, the beloved Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:
'The Guardian, in his remarks…about parents and children, wives and husbands' relations in America meant that there is a tendency in that country for children to be too independent of the wishes of their parents and lacking in the respect due to them. Also wives, in some cases, have a tendency to exert an unjust degree of domination over their husbands which, of course, is not right, anymore than that the husband should unjustly dominate his wife.' "
(Ibid.)
Time When Wife Should Defer to Husband and Time When Husband Should Defer to Wife
"In any group, however loving the consultation, there are nevertheless points on which, from time to time, agreement cannot be reached. In a Spiritual Assembly this dilemma is resolved by a majority vote. There can, however, be no majority where only two parties are involved, as in the case of a husband and wife. There are, therefore, times when a wife should defer to her husband, and times when a husband should defer to his wife, but neither should ever unjustly dominate the other. In short, the relationship between husband and wife should be as held forth in the prayer revealed by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá which is often read at Bahá’í weddings: 'Verily they are married in obedience to Thy command. Cause them to become the signs of harmony and unity until the end of time.*' "
(Ibid.)
*(Bahá’í Prayers, p. 107, 1982 ed.)
In Tablet of the World Women and Men Envisaged as Breadwinners
"In the Tablet of the World, Bahá’u’lláh Himself has envisaged that women as well as men would be breadwinners in stating:
'Everyone, whether man or woman, should hand over to a trusted person a portion of what he or she earneth through trade, agriculture or other occupation, for the training and education of children, to be spent for this purpose with the knowledge of the Trustees of the House of Justice.'"
("Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas", p. 90)
"A very important element in the attainment of such equality is Bahá’u’lláh's provision that boys and girls must follow essentially the same curriculum in schools."
There is a beautiful balance in the Baha'i Writings with respect to equality. Sometimes the man, sometimes the woman but not domination by either but loving consultation. Also women were envisioned as bread earners and have become just that. Before Baha'u'llah wrote this women were only in the home. Now see how they are establishing careers and promoted by Baha'u'llah Himself. There is no domination of any one sex here and any claims made as such are really a misunderstanding.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
1,2- Thankyou for reaffirming that there is no equality.
3- No it hasn't. Abdu'l-Baha made that up. According to the clear law of the Aqdas men can practice polygamy. Baha'u'llah had three wives himself and never uttered anything about practicing justice.
4- Yep, you've been waiting more than a hundred years for the "ere long" period to pass and the reason become self evident. (in Baha'ism "ere long" means more than a hundred years!!!) Funny thing is, whatever the reason, IF a reason is found, it is still inequality.
5- Who cares about the past prophets. Baha'is claim that in Baha'ism, there is a NOVEL principle called "equality between men and women" and yet there isn't.
6- Inequality in Mercy!!! This is totally unfair to the men.
7- Title or no title, that is inequality.
8- Yeah but if they don't, tough luck for the woman. Thus in equal circumstances, the women is the loser.
9- "O Handmaids of the Self-Sustaining Lord! Exert your efforts so that you may attain the honour and privilege ordained for women. Undoubtedly the greatest glory of women is servitude at His Threshold and submissiveness at His door; it is the possession of a vigilant heart, and praise of the incomparable God; it is heartfelt love towards other handmaids and spotless chastity; it is obedience to and consideration for their husbands and the education and care of their children; and it is tranquillity, and dignity, perseverance in the remembrance of the Lord, and the utmost enkindlement and attraction." (abdu'l-baha)
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Many ex-Baha'is left for the same reason. One individual even told me they would openly claim all religions are one but would ridicule them (in private I guess).
Abdul-Baha was the appointed interpreter of Baha'u'llah's Writings appointed by Baha'u'llah Himself in His Will and Testament so the interpretation of Abdul-Baha is correct.
The link I provided addressed the issues you refer to.
Laws referring to men or women as I stated are appled in reverse as well so husband must also obey they wives. It is mutual cooperation.
You can read about the wives of Baha'u'llah here and that there was no Baha'i Law at that time.
http://bahai-library.com/uhj_wives_bahaullah
Try and find a group of Baha'i women and ask them how they feel.
Baha'i women would disagree strongly with you. Find a few of them and ask them about these things as they are the best ones to tell you they are not discriminated against not us men.
Pudding
Well-Known Member
As a FSM believer I find accepting others religions to be not only workable but creates unity and friendship and peace between us. We accept the Prophet, Messenger or Messiah and His Holy Book and all humanity as a family and it works.
We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.
This is a call to peace and love and unity!
We accept everything except the man made dogmas and interpretations - only the religion in its purest form. Those who want peace will find in this message a great hope for humanity.
This is a call to peace and love and unity!