What Is Justice?

[Reiðrœska]

I think everyone thinks they are working for the betterment of all. And therefore, in each of their own little universes, they are.

I only work for the betterment of myself, and to be perfectly honest, I think everyone is the same deep down.

Anyone's motives for anything are selfish. No intentional act is ever completely selfess. You could give your life to save someone else's, but the only reason anyone would do so is because they would hate to live without that person, they wanted to be seen as a hero, they wanted honour, they felt they owed that person their life. For whichever reason you give your life for someone else, you do it at least partly to satisfy yourself, most likely your ego.

Nobody can do everything for everyone else and nobody can achieve perfect equality and justice. I'm not saying nobody should try, because people might enjoy trying, but it will not and cannot be done.

Besides, would you want to live in a world in which everyone was equal and did everything for each other? Wouldn't it be boring if everyone had the same, everyone was worth the same and treated each other the same?

 

[UnTheist]

Justice is what you want

 

[Storm]

Besides, would you want to live in a world in which everyone was equal and did everything for each other? Wouldn't it be boring if everyone had the same, everyone was worth the same and treated each other the same?

There's a big difference between equality and hegemony.

 

[doppelganger]

I only work for the betterment of myself, and to be perfectly honest, I think everyone is the same deep down.

Deep down . . . yes. You are generally correct.

 

[DarkSun]

Constructs like "justice", and "good and evil" are extremely subjective and depend solely on what each individual believes is right. In all, "evil" is any act that is deemed abhorrent and morally wrong in the eyes of a certain community, and "justice" is the punishment of people who are seen as wrong-doers.

Personally, I'm starting to doubt whether "good and evil" are wholly realistic labels, since everyone on this earth believes that their actions are right before they do them, even if we don't agree. I severely doubt there is anyone who does something they personally believe is wrong... So then, no one is evil, really.

I suppose if there was such a thing as evil in this world, it would be defined by doing something wrong, for the mere sake of doing something wrong. In the words of The Dark Knight:

Some people just want to see the world burn.

But if you can morally or logically justify your actions in any way, then by your own perception, you're not doing something evil. You're just doing what you think is right....

Meh... There is no good and evil. Just difference of opinions.

 

[rojse]

I think we can all agree that justice is something we should strive for, but what is it?

Justice

 

[Heneni]

Justice

How could we miss it?

 

[Ben Masada]

Justice is fairness in the application of punishment for any wrongdoing.
However, as everywhere, to the rules about Justice there is also an exception.
Exception in Justice is called mercy. One is allowed to exercise mercy in Justice,
but blindly and free of partiality; absolutely destituted of any form of interest attached.

Ben

 

[autonomous1one1]

I think we can all agree that justice is something we should strive for, but what is it? What does justice look like? Is it an eye for an eye, or is that outdated? If it's outdated, what do you think has or should have replaced it?

Greetings Storm. You have an interesting thread here, and judging from the many different opinions there seems to be little agreement on what Justice is. Therefore, why shouldn't one more different opinion yet be added to the group for consideration? Justice might be said to be the removal of what is against love.

There is no justice without love and as one realizes union with God, love and justice merge to one. Action between people(s) in the name of justice or otherwise that is not first founded on love is itself unjust. Further, one finite being does not need to judge another's act of 'injustice' for the judgement and consequence is made internally at the time. Psychological studies are showing that when one does harm to another the impact internally is even greater. (Believe it was Tillich that wrote that one form of God's justice is the given freedom that human beings have to self destuct, that the self-destructive consequences of existential estrangement are allowed to go their way.)

All this does not mean that we do not have to lock up or isolate some beings that harm others. It does mean that reasons are not punishment, vindication, retribution, or penalty of death.

Regards,
a..1

 

[rojse]

I think we can all agree that justice is something we should strive for, but what is it? What does justice look like? Is it an eye for an eye, or is that outdated? If it's outdated, what do you think has or should have replaced it?

Slightly more seriously than before, justice depends on where you are sitting. It's in relation to your experiences, your prejudices, and your situation in the event itself.

If someone is deemed to be a murderer, someone might say the death penalty is justice. Others would say that the exact same sentence is unjust, and want life imprisonment, and both of these might be relatives of the victim.

 

[blackout]

Now that I think about it,
I don't believe "serving" justice is pragmatic.

Even with my kids,
I'm more interested in changing a pattern
than serving "justice".
"Punishing" does little for me either.
I just want life to run smoothly
and if one person is ruining it for the rest,
they need to be either influenced to change their BEhavior,
or isolated
for the sake of the rest.

But in my mind it has nothing really
to do with punishment or justice.

Just improving a "bad" (or undesirable) situation.

As well, I say lock up the phychos not in the name of justice,
but because they are a danger to people.

 

[fantome profane]

I would tend to agree with those who have said that complete absolute justice is a theoretical concept that does not exist in reality. This thread has dealt mainly with the punishment for crimes, but if justice were perfect there would be no crimes in the first place. But we must deal with the imperfect unjust world we have. When the crimes are small monetary matters, then they can easily be rectified, the victim can be made whole again by financial restitution. But in the case of more serious crimes like murder, there can be no justice.

I would also like to suggest that justice is deeply interconnected with the concepts of freedom and peace. In fact those three ideas – justice, freedom, peace - are so interconnected that they are actually the same thing, different aspects, perspective or viewpoints of the same thing. It is impossible for any one of them to exist, even in a limited imperfect way without the other two.

And like perfect justice, perfect peace and complete freedom are concepts that exist only in our minds. These are things that we yearn for, but can never fully achieve. I also believe that it is this great yearning that is the inspiration for much of our religious mythology.

 

[Magic Man]

I also believe that it is this great yearning that is the inspiration for much of our religious mythology.

Yes, indeed. I believe it is exactly that which is the inspiration for the concepts of Heaven and Hell.

 

[opuntia]

Justice is the law applying the punishment which the law demands. Justice by itself is harsh in its demands, it is not moved by any mitigating circumstance. It does not care if you are rich or poor, a family man or not, a man or a woman, all it cares about is meting out the punishment the offender deserves. The written law by itself is unfeeling and callous, what we need to temper justice is mercy. It is that merciful feeling that comes to people when judging others, when we are mindful of the difficulties that may have put them there. Mercy comes from the heart, so without mercy justice will act without feeling. This is justice.

"For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy." (James 2:13; KJV).

Also:

"Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." (Matthew 5:7).

And last of all:

"For the LORD thy God is a merciful God." (Deuteronomy 4:31).

If God was only interested in enforcing the law upon lawbreakers, He could do it without mercy. Or He could be merciful and utilize the gift of His son who died for our sins and be merciful. Which is better?

 

[doppelganger]

This . . .

So justice would be the correction and compensation for the crime. Criminals take something away from their victim, and thus owe a debt to them.

doesn't seem to fit with this . . .

For example when someone violates the rights of another, their own should be forfeit, i.e. imprisonment for a duration depending on the severity of the crime. Cost for cost.

If a criminal owes a debt to the victim, imposing a loss on the criminal only negates the debt when the payment is made to the victim. Imprisonment doesn't do that.

 

[hiddenlodge]

some say justice is blind ?

"strive for justice for thy soul and GOD will overthrow thy ennemies"

does that sound familiar, justice is a two way traffic where machiavelic minds always win
but I firmly acknowledge that justice is all about some will lose for enought is enought
just like winning takes time and commitment

 

[Pagan Spiritualist]

Justice is not letting the committee of injustice be satisfied, and having the victim be satisfied. Example, a man takes a woman hostage, raped her, then she get free, ties him up, keeps him in a closet and tortures him for fun, that's justice. Both victim and and rapist, in that situation, have the levels of satisfaction required for it to be considered justice.

Justice is not always a positive thing though. But it is satisfying.

 

[Father Heathen]

This . . .



doesn't seem to fit with this . . .



If a criminal owes a debt to the victim, imposing a loss on the criminal only negates the debt when the payment is made to the victim. Imprisonment doesn't do that.

So then what do you suggest?

 

[Japaholic]

Justice is a whore for money. Simple as that, a man(or woman) of little means will never get justice.

 

[Heneni]

Justice is a whore for money. Simple as that, a man(or woman) of little means will never get justice.

Not likely in the human justice system no. Good observation. When poor people want to take on big corporations they are in for a tough time! There is the Erin Brocovich (spelling?) story. (julia roberts), though. But its rather the exception than the rule.

Heneni