What the New Testament says about God is true

[TransmutingSoul]

Which means finding time to read them? Yourself. In context? Not repeating what your Shia sect teachers tell you they say?

Because in context the NT doesn't say what you want to try to make it say by selecting passages out of context that you flip out like cards from a book that, let's face it, you haven't ever really read, except perhaps to find out-of-context passages to further your agenda.

But anyone can find anything they like in the Bible if they take it out of context. Anything. But it's not the intended context.

Please read that again: context.

I don't care what Abdul Baha thinks. I don't adhere to Muslim interpretation of the New Testament. Even Muslims who've actually read the NT -- Sunni or Shia

And so I'm sure this isn't going to go anywhere useful.

When you know what Baha'u'llah says about the Word of God, each word and sentence has many meanings, Baha'u'llah also explained and proved that statement (Which is an ancient teaching)

A lot of times I do read the whole chapter to get context to the quotes, I have used these so often now, it is plausible, when you know what the Quran and Baha'i Wrirings have offered, to offer those quotes ro Christians in the manner we do, as a variable consideration, is left up to the receiver.

Some quotes I do not use, as I see the dispute about context is valid.

Happy to discuss how any passage you see is out of context, can be seen in a different light.

Regards Tony

Your personal approach and responses have made that so.

Regards Tony

Here is the concept Baha'u'llah again brings back to us, many have forgotten these teachings of the many meanings of God's Word.

The "Seventy Faces" of Torah

Shiv'im Panim laTorah: The Torah has 70 faces. This phrase used to indicate different 'levels' of interpretation of the Torah.

www.hebrew4christians.com

This is also written into Prophecy quoted by Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-iqan

"...Thus it is recorded: “Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá'im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain...”

I guess Baha'u'llah knew the scriptures better than us.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

Happy to discuss how any passage you see is out of context, can be seen in a different light.

Pentecost. Lazarus. The Resurrection. Many, many .

I guess Baha'u'llah knew the scriptures better than us.

He knew the Quran. He knew the Shia interpretation. What other scriptures did he know?

I'll see your response, but don't have energy to go on with empty words forever

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'll see your response, but don't have energy to go on with empty words forever

With that, I leave it all up to you to find the fullness of the Word.

All the best, stay safe, stay happy. These conversations can be recalled to know an appreciate, that all we have offered is the Love and Peace found in the Bible, a Love and peace that we embrace all Humanity with, at a time when Nationalisim, Materialism, hate, predudices and war is killing humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

Right ...

 

[Eli G]

The most intriguing aspect of the Bahais is their claim that Baháʼu'lláh (born Ḥusayn-ʻAlí)'s interpretation of Christian Scriptures is the correct one, asserting that a "manifestation of God" (according to himself and Bahais after him) as a divinely authorized figure has the authority to determine the meaning of the New Testament.

It's quite amusing, isn't it?

If the Bahais dismiss any other interpretations of Christian writings from genuine Christians (whether right or wrong), how can they logically believe that an ex-Muslim, who has never been a Christian, possesses the correct interpretation?

 

[Sumadji]

Any Baha'i conversation with Christians should begin with convincing arguments why Christians need to accept not just the Quran and Islam but the Shia interpretation as informing and correcting them

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Any Baha'i conversation with Christians should begin with convincing arguments why Christians need to accept not just the Quran and islam but the Shia interpretation as informing and correcting them

There is but One God.

Need anything else?

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

There is but One God.

And but one spokesman or messenger for the age? Whose every word is to be believed,? Superceding all others?

 

[Eli G]

There is but One God.

Need anything else?

Regards Tony

God IS NOT ecumenical.

 

[Eli G]

While reviewing additional details to gather insights from the forum's most sincere and dedicated members, I stumbled upon intriguing aspects of modern Hindu philosophy. A 19th-century Hindu religious figure proclaimed Jesus of Nazareth as another avatar (incarnation) of God, suggesting that he should be revered within Hinduism.

If anyone else has further information on this topic, it would be fascinating to learn more.

The question now is:

Does this grant Hindu religious leaders the authority to re-interpret Jesus's biblical teachings and reject authentic Christian interpretations?

 

[Trailblazer]

The most intriguing aspect of the Bahais is their claim that Baháʼu'lláh (born Ḥusayn-ʻAlí)'s interpretation of Christian Scriptures is the correct one, asserting that a "manifestation of God" (according to himself and Bahais after him) as a divinely authorized figure has the authority to determine the meaning of the New Testament.

It's quite amusing, isn't it?

It is not the least bit funny if Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to me.

All I will say is that I would not want to be the one who, when I take my final breath, knew about Baha'u'llah yet turned away from Him.

I am covered because I believe in both Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I love Jesus more than I can even say.
I revere Baha'u'llah but I do not pray to Him, I pray to God and Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

And but one spokesman or messenger for the age?

Yes.

Whose every word is to be believed,?

It is a personal choice as to whether they believe in Baha'u'llah or not.

 

[Eli G]

...I believe in both Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I love Jesus more than I can even say.

No, you don't. You believe in that Jesus that your spiritual leader presents to you.

What about the real Jesus, the one you can learn about directly from the same source your leader knew Jesus?

I revere Baha'u'llah but I do not pray to Him, I pray to God and Jesus.

I don't think your "reverence" is proper in real Jesus' view.

What if at the end, as you say, the real Jesus tells you something like: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:23). Oh, wait ... according to Bahais Jesus won't come back to judge anyone, so ... we're not talking about the same Jesus, right.

 

[Trailblazer]

The question now is:

Does this grant Hindu religious leaders the authority to re-interpret Jesus's biblical teachings and reject authentic Christian interpretations?

re-interpret Jesus's biblical teachings? That implies that there is one correct interpretation.

and reject authentic Christian interpretations? That implies that there is one authentic Christian interpretation?

The question is this:

Why would any Christian interpretation be better than any other interpretation?
Jesus did not assign a successor and give anyone the authority to interpret the Bible.

Christians all interpret the Bible at will and the reason there are so many sects of Christianity is because Christians do not agree on what everything in the Bible means.

 

[Eli G]

The simple key: ecumenical religious leaders do not have any right interpretation of Biblical writings.

What I call "ecumenical religious leaders"? Those who say that God has many envoys in different religions, groups, sects, ...

If God is One, there's only one religion: the one He accepts, and the rest are rejected by Him as non-acceptable-weirdos.

Now, find the true God, the true religion and the true modern people of that God.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, you don't. You believe in that Jesus that your spiritual leader presents to you.

Who are you to tell me what I believe about Jesus and where it came from? You do not know that.

I think you need to know more about what Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus before assuming I got my information from Him.
Baha'u'llah wrote very little about Jesus so that is not how I came to know and love Jesus.

I believe what Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus but I gathered most of my information about Jesus from the New Testament and from conversing with Christians on forums over the years.

What about the real Jesus, the one you can learn about directly from the same source your leader knew Jesus?

I cannot learn from the same source from which Baha'u'llah knew Jesus, since that direct Source was God.
You really did not think that Baha'u'llah knew Jesus from reading the New Testament did you? That is laughable.

I don't think your "reverence" is proper in real Jesus' view.

And what is real Jesus' view, all the fictitious stories that men wrote about Jesus in the New Testament?

What if at the end, as you say, the real Jesus tells you something like: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:23).

What if at the end, after you die and go to heaven, the real Jesus says something like:
"Why did you not recognize Me when my Spirit I returned in the Person of Baha'u'llah?"

Baha'u'llah had something to say about Judgment Day.

“Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure? If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 143-144

Oh, wait ... according to Bahais Jesus won't come back to judge anyone, so ... we're not talking about the same Jesus, right.

No, Jesus won't be coming back, but that is not according to Baha'is, that is according to Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

It is rather ironic when a Baha'i has to be pointing out these important Bible verses to a Christians, but even after I point them out Christians still cannot face the fact that Jesus is not coming back to this world.

And who is it who cannot understand the Bible?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Who are you to tell me what I believe about Jesus and where it came from? You do not know that.

As a former evangelical and street preacher, I think it's ironic for you to be accused of not knowing the real Jesus by a Jehovah's Witness. I've discussed my interactions with them in the past, but I have a new interaction with them to share. A couple of them came to my house earlier today. I let them in, listened to their sales pitch for a couple of minutes, and then I counteracted their every word and scriptural references. I think they realized that they were defeated because they finally gave up and left. My son told me that he was impressed by the way I handled them. It was certainly an interesting experience for us.

 

[Trailblazer]

I've discussed my interactions with them in the past, but I have a new interaction with them to share. A couple of them came to my house earlier today. I let them in, listened to their sales pitch for a couple of minutes, and then I counteracted their every word and scriptural references. I think they realized that they were defeated because they finally gave up and left. My son told me that he was impressed by the way I handled them. It was certainly an interesting experience for us.

Did they give you the spiel about how everyone will be resurrected and live forever on Earth in a restored Garden of Eden, and how Jesus will rule over Earth from heaven?

Imo, those are the most absurd of their beliefs. From what I know, I think that their other beliefs are reasonable, but of course I do not know all of their beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

Curious that you think so, since all history books that young people study at school are about that...

Are you saying that the Bible is the same as a history book that was written back in ancient times? Even history books written in within the past couple of hundreds years I wouldn't trust as being completely accurate.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not the issue. A person needs to read Homer before discussing Odysseus with people who study it. It would be disrespectful and futile.

The thread title is obviously directed at Christians: "What the New Testament says about God is true." The Baha'i who posted it says she wouldn't waste her time reading the NT

She says the Quran supercedes the NT but hasn't read that either.

I don't believe that the other Baha'i posting here and quoting from the NT has actualy read the NT in full context for a long time either?

About the Quran vs. the NT... I've asked Baha'is if they believe the Quran version of the birth story that has Mary giving birth to Jesus under a date palm over the version in the NT that has Jesus being born in a manger in Bethlehem.

Unless I missed a post, I don't think any of them have commented on that.