What the New Testament says about God is true

[YoursTrue]

It's a trait of humanity, generally I believe built from fear. The whole heaven and hell, one and done deal is scary enough to call "hell on earth." Personally, I believe it is a sin to believe in "sin." Right and wrong, yes, of course. But the belief in "sin" appears to cause far too many people to sin.

Not sure what you mean by that, but I do wonder about what I consider to be nut jobs that shoot up people they don't know, for instance. Meaning I wonder how they think and if they think they're doing something wrong. Maybe they will say no, they don't think they did something wrong or bad. And so I guess maybe an "expert" would decide if they're incapable of what is considered normal thinking. I used to work for a lawyer and when I mentioned about the many movies and publications about murder and other crimes he said it was freedom of the press and expression. I am glad that I now have guidelines for my life and actions.

 

[Truthseeker]

It's completely ridiculous that as a Christian, I am expected to interpret the Bible from a Baha'i perspective.

No one expects you to do that. Certainly @Trailblazer doesn't. I believe she wants you to use independent investigation, and do some thinking. She is trying to prod you in that direction, though not in an effective way. I'm her best friend, I know how she thinks.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't think you guys should be fighting for upmanship about what you think the Bible says. @Trailblazer does tend to be confrontational. So are you apparently.

There is no upmanship as you call it. Clearly Trailblazer thinks the Bible is an untrue unreliable document and bases her belief on what Bahaullah said. She is not alone in reference to the Bible, as many others do not believe what the Bible says and they are not Bahais. @Eli G has provided scriptural citations backing his viewpoint. From my experience, it is God, and God alone who draws people to Him. And the proper belief about Him. That is my viewpoint. They (we) all have choices, but I have found that it is God (not human wisdom alone) that draws a person to Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

No one expects you to do that. Certainly @Trailblazer doesn't. I believe she wants you to use independent investigation, and do some thinking. She is trying to prod you in that direction, though not in an effective way. I'm her best friend, I know how she thinks.

No, that is not what I am trying to do Duane. You have been away for a long time.
I do not want @Eli G to do anything.

Besides, it is obvious to me when Christians are completely set in what they believe about Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I have no interest in getting them to change their views.

 

[Truthseeker]

From my experience, it is God, and God alone who draws people to Him. And the proper belief about Him. That is my viewpoint.

There are different viewpoints, and I believe that God can inspire a person towards the truth, but a person can't know the whole truth. The truth is not finite, but humans are finite.

 

[YoursTrue]

So what?

I know why you quoted that. You quoted that because you think that God is going to raise bodies from graves and put physical bodies back together again.

It depends. But at any rate, I learned a while back that only God can really teach a person the truth.
Therefore -- on that note -- once again -- have a good evening/day/night, whatever it is in your part of the world.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, that is not what I am trying to do Duane. You have been away for a long time.
I do not want @Eli G to do anything.

Besides, it is obvious to me when Christians are completely set in what they believe about Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I have no interest in getting them to change their views.

To be honest, that is another reason why I direct you to God for answers in your assertions and I may only say a few things here and there.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are different viewpoints, and I believe that God can inspire a person towards the truth, but a person can't know the whole truth. The truth is not finite, but humans are finite.

I do not disagree. Which is why I will not contend with certain people because -- as I learned a while back -- it is God alone who can guide a person.

 

[Trailblazer]

only God can really teach a person the truth.

How do you think that God does that?

 

[Eli G]

Jesus is unparalleled and will never be like any human who tries to convince others of his specialness. I have come to understand who Jesus is from the sole reliable source of information that humanity has had since the first century when he lived and taught a group of Jews like himself about things no one else knew: the Kingdom of God and his mission to earth so that humans could once again become part of God's family, enjoying the conditions for which they were originally created.

He not only revealed those secrets previously unknown, but he also demonstrated the kind of King he would be, the one chosen by God. For instance, he showed his power over nature, calming the wind and the waves of the sea. He also demonstrated his ability to feed humanity effortlessly, heal diseases that had never been cured before, such as congenital blindness, and even raise the dead. He was subsequently resurrected, and his disciples witnessed him disappear before their eyes and ascend to heaven, with God's angels telling them he would return in the future.

If anyone wants to introduce me to someone they think could be equal to my Lord, let it not be with mere words, but let them show me deeds and realities that can match those of my King.

 

[Trailblazer]

To be honest, that is another reason why I direct you to God for answers in your assertions and I may only say a few things here and there.

How do you think that God answers our assertions?

 

[Truthseeker]

Besides, it is obvious to me when Christians are completely set in what they believe about Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I have no interest in getting them to change their views.

You don't seem to be making friends with people like @Eli G. Being confrontational doesn't make for friendship, and I doubt anyone else becomes friends with you with rhetoric like this except those who already agree with you I believe, and no one is convinced by your rhetoric who is watching if you are confrontational if they don't already agree I don't believe.

You do learn from the experience because you think about what you are about to say, and you look things up that you learn from.

It's all debate oriented and that has its limitations. You always choose General Religious Debates, and this thread as you stated it in the beginning shouldn't belong in General Religious Debates. You do get more replies here, but is it worth it?

 

[Truthseeker]

He not only revealed those secrets previously unknown, but he also demonstrated the kind of King he would be, the one chosen by God. For instance, he showed his power over nature, calming the wind and the waves of the sea. He also demonstrated his ability to feed humanity effortlessly, heal diseases that had never been cured before, such as congenital blindness, and even raise the dead. He was subsequently resurrected, and his disciples witnessed him disappear before their eyes and ascend to heaven, with God's angels telling them he would return in the future.

It's true that He revealed secrets never known before then. What do you think those miracles accomplish?

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't seem to be making friends with people like @Eli G. Being confrontational doesn't make for friendship, and I doubt anyone else becomes friends with you with rhetoric like this except those who already agree with you I believe, and no one is convinced by your rhetoric who is watching if you are confrontational if they don't already agree I don't believe.

I am not looking to make friends with anyone unless they want to be my friend. RF is not a social club.

Like I said, you have not been here for a while, and this started on another thread. @Eli G followed me here to criticize Baha'u'llah, after we agreed not to post to each other anymore since we were at an impasse.

Jesus is not God

Many years I did not believe in God and had no religion. It was not until I met my wife I seen the light. You see my wife was a Born again Christian and to get on her good side I attended her Church when we first met. I started to read the Bible on my own and I was caught up in the word. When I...

www.religiousforums.com

You can read the posts and see who was being confrontational. All I ever did was share what I believe.

It's all debate oriented and that has its limitations. You always choose General Religious Debates, and this thread as you stated it in the beginning shouldn't belong in General Religious Debates. You do get more replies here, but is it worth it?

Worth what? I get along fine with most people, even Christians, but some Christians barrel out of control because they see Baha'u'llah as being a competitor to Jesus so they have to try to knock Him down to a false prophet or a religious leader.

Jesus is the only way for Christians, but not all Christians have to denigrate Baha'u'llah. They just keep quiet or are polite.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is not good, arguing in a thread where my friend @Trailblazer is trying to make bridges. That goes for you too, @TransmutingSoul. And arguing about prophecy of all things! In my opinion prophecy is not worth arguing about.

Again... about bridge building? Post 216 she says that Jesus won't be coming back and quotes some verses from the gospel of John.

In post 218, she said a belief held by some Christians is "absurd."

Are you sure "building" bridges was what she's trying to do here? Unless, like I said in one of the posts here, that first, Baha'is would have to tear down the foundational, or "fundamental" beliefs held by some Christians before any bridges between them and Baha'is can be built. And the first being their belief about Jesus being God.

Yeah, knock that down... if you can, and then build the bridge of understanding things the Baha'i way... that all the manifestations are one.....

Or, let them knock down the Baha'i belief that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ and see it their way that Jesus is the one and only way, and let them build the bridge of knowing and accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.

And I've know people that have gone through that. A Christian that turned Baha'i. And a Baha'i that went back to being a Born Again Christian.

Here's one person I knew from several Baha'i meetings in Southern California. He was a famous singer in the group England Dan and John Ford Coley. England Dan was the brother of Jimmy Seals from Seals and Crofts. John was the last person I ever thought would convert back to Christianity.

John Ford Coley interview about his conversion from Baha'i to Christianity​

He was a Baha'i 28 years.​

​

You joined a cult in the early 70s. Can you tell us what that was like? ... I was drawn into another religion simply because of the lack of answers and fear that was taught to me in regards to the return of Jesus. ... By the same token, it has given me a tremendous insight into the camp of the enemy and the deceptions that are used to deceive people into believing something that is not true. And the enemy is very deceptive, make no mistake about it. During that time, I thought I was quite informed and well-read in the Bible. I was mistaken or else I would not have gotten involved in it.​

​

How did you leave the “cult” and convert to Christianity? ... A songwriter friend of mine kept urging me to come to church with him. That was quite honestly the last place I thought I’d ever find God. To appease him and get him to leave me alone about it, my family and I finally went. ... But what occurred was that we ran right into the presence of God. I’d never felt that before. For about 2 months we kept going back to the church, sitting in the back and crying. I’d never experienced that presence before.​

 

[CG Didymus]

Each in their own way CG. All the best.

With God, we all all single alone and lowly.

Regards Tony

But we're all learning. These days so many of us are open to finding "the way". But with all the choices, and that includes the Baha'i Faith and the many, many Christian sects (and cults), people have got to be careful. They've got to check and recheck to be sure what they are being told is the truth.

And how does any religion prove it is "The Truth"?

And again, I do believe most any religion, when believed and followed, will work for the person and seem like the truth. But... most all of them do contradict each other. So, somebody, or everybody, if being fooled into believing something that is close, but is not "The Truth".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If anyone wants to introduce me to someone they think could be equal to my Lord, let it not be with mere words, but let them show me deeds and realities that can match those of my King.

One only has to read the life of the Bab.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Again... about bridge building? Post 216 she says that Jesus won't be coming back and quotes some verses from the gospel of John.

In post 218, she said a belief held by some Christians is "absurd."

Are you sure "building" bridges was what she's trying to do here? Unless, like I said in one of the posts here, that first, Baha'is would have to tear down the foundational, or "fundamental" beliefs held by some Christians before any bridges between them and Baha'is can be built. And the first being their belief about Jesus being God.

I don't have the whole context of what is going on here, but this thread has deteriorated from the original stated purpose. @Trailblazer when people say things that confront what she believes, she will defend herself. I don't know how much of that is happening. I know I'm not interested in tearing down the beliefs of Christians, and get them to see things through a Baha'i lens. It makes no sense to get someone of another religion see through their lens. As Christians don't believe in Baha'u'llah you can quote from Baha'i Writings to clarify exactly what you believe, but of course a Christian won't put "faith" in those Writings. @Trailblazer has done that a lot, quote from the Writings to clarify what she means. @Trailblazer puts a lot of stock in reason, so to her some things seem absurd. I can't tell her not to do that, come out and say they are absurd. I don't know the circumstances of her saying that. I prefer not to say that to people, but I shouldn't judge, since I don't know the context, and to judge others is not good anyway. I did do some of that yesterday.

I can't comment on what happened with John Ford Coley, as that is his business. That was his perception, and I have mine. I am not going to condemn him for going back to Christianity or agree with him. He no doubt is a good person. When Jimmy Seals died, he praised Jimmy Seals.

 

[Truthseeker]

No, that is not what I am trying to do Duane. You have been away for a long time.
I do not want @Eli G to do anything.

Besides, it is obvious to me when Christians are completely set in what they believe about Jesus and Baha'u'llah and I have no interest in getting them to change their views.

It'd true I haven't been involved here, and I don't know how this thread has gone, so I should have known the context better.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But we're all learning. These days so many of us are open to finding "the way". But with all the choices, and that includes the Baha'i Faith and the many, many Christian sects (and cults), people have got to be careful. They've got to check and recheck to be sure what they are being told is the truth.

And how does any religion prove it is "The Truth"?

And again, I do believe most any religion, when believed and followed, will work for the person and seem like the truth. But... most all of them do contradict each other. So, somebody, or everybody, if being fooled into believing something that is close, but is not "The Truth".

There are Bible passages where Jesus offered that at the end of ages many would be claiming to he doing great things in the name of Jesus's Christ and Jesus offeres "I do not know you". "Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, 'Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true". (Revelation 21:5.)

For a Faith to he born, all the past must be pulled down, how can that happen if no one wants change?

I do not think we can stem the tide of change, the Baha'i Wrirings themselves contain the turmoil that will be faced. The issue is, many people of Christianity and Islam are yet to find what is offered in the Baha'i Writings. Do we hold them back, or do we present them?

Passages such as this, quoted by Shoghi Effendi, given by Abdul'baha when the enemy thought they had finally had a victory over eliminating Abdul'baha, an failed at the 12th hour.

“How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord, assisted by His grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding, and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse: ‘Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’”

I noted that a poster in this OP offered the Baha'i were confused. I will offer the Baha'i are not confused about what will unfold as the source of that confusion is noted.

"...Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated.."

That is how I see it, the rest can post as they so choose, but they have my love and peaceful intentions.

Regards Tony