What will Christians and Muslims have to say

[mohammed_beiruti]

Peace speaking to ILoveIslam:

So then Peace & ILoveIslam.....What should the punishment be for homosexuals that refuse to listen to Allah?

Qura'an Ch.2

[19] Or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: in it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning: they press their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunderclap, the while they are in terror of death. But Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!


[20] The lightning all but snatches away their sight; every time the light (helps) them, they walk therein, and when the darkness grows on them, they stand still. And if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for Allah hath power over all things.

imagine that you are the person who walks through this storm would you pretened not hearing the thunder or not seeing the lightning,

Am talking about people who , sometimes see the truth and othertimes they dont see it, they can't decide which path they can choose.

seeking desires and lusts is not the right path!

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

But falling in love isn't. The natural physical way to express that deep love is through intimate relations. So you are basically saying that homosexuals shouldn't love. Is that about right? That all these people, because of the way they are born, should not love anyone. And if they do happen to fall in love they should ignore those feelings so as not to be tempted to express them through making love. In other words...because of the way someone is born you feel that they should be miserable for their entire lives. Wow, I guess that might work to your cause though. For if you were actually able to implement such a thing could you imagine the skyrocking rates of suicides among homosexual people? I guess torturing them by denying them love to the point of them killing themselves off saves you from having to do the dirty deed yourself huh?

Qura'an Ch.35
[8] Is he, then, to whom the evil of his conduct is made alluring, so that he looks upon it as good, (equal to one who is rightly guided)? For Allah leaves to stray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. So let not thy soul go out in (vainly) sighing after them: for Allah knows well all that they do!

real love for those who want to be clean and pure.

 

[Draka]

Qura'an Ch.35
[8] Is he, then, to whom the evil of his conduct is made alluring, so that he looks upon it as good, (equal to one who is rightly guided)? For Allah leaves to stray whom He wills, and guides whom He wills. So let not thy soul go out in (vainly) sighing after them: for Allah knows well all that they do!

real love for those who want to be clean and pure.

I take that as a "yes" then. Homosexuals, people BORN to fall in love with the same gender, should not be allowed love. Check.

Isn't it so ironic that the religions who claim so much love incorporated such the opposite? :sarcastic

 

[Kathryn]

I've got another question for the "anti-religion" zealots out there:

When and if God makes His presence known to you, will you continue to harden your heart?

 

[Caladan]

I've got another question for the "anti-religion" zealots out there:

When and if God makes His presence known to you, will you continue to harden your heart?

I fail to see the relevance of this question. Can you speak for this God? who can determine that this God will condemn homosexuals? maybe this God is the anti thesis of organized religion, a god that favors science and study over blind faith, worship, and dogma?

 

[Caladan]

you live in Isreal

Its spelled Israel as in I-S-R-A-E-L

so it may be easy for you to visit "Lot lake" , then you may descover whether gays deserve punishment or not.

The best of world archaeologists have not excavated any evidence for Soddom or Gomorrah. however the modern state of Israel is the only nation in the middle east which recognizes gay marriage, or which recognizes gays at all..

 

[ProudMuslim]

I fail to see the relevance of this question. Can you speak for this God? who can determine that this God will condemn homosexuals? maybe this God is the anti thesis of organized religion, a god that favors science and study over blind faith, worship, and dogma?

Religion and science work hand in hand. Like Albert Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, and Religion without science is blind". If God wanted us to be like robots, He wouldn't create brains in us to think, search and advance. He wouldn't bestow us with free will. In essence religion and science complement each other.

 

[Caladan]

Religion and science work hand in hand. Like Albert Einstein said "Science without religion is lame, and Religion without science is blind". If God wanted us to be like robots, He wouldn't create brains in us to think, search and advance. He wouldn't bestow us with free will. In essence religion and science complement each other.

Religion may be beneficial for some people, but certainly not to all people. in the distant past religion and science were interwined, but these days are long gone. today the public needs to moderate its religious fever in order to be mature enough to be up to date with the scientific information of the era.

 

[Kathryn]

I fail to see the relevance of this question. Can you speak for this God? who can determine that this God will condemn homosexuals? maybe this God is the anti thesis of organized religion, a god that favors science and study over blind faith, worship, and dogma?

I'm sure the realities of God will surprise a lot of people - myself included.

 

[McBell]

In essence religion and science complement each other.

Unlessof course science disproves a particular belief or dogma.
Then it (science) is thrown out in favour of the belief or dogma.

This can be seen right here in this thread.

 

[McBell]

I'm sure the realities of God will surprise a lot of people - myself included.

Still does not explain the relevance....

 

[Kathryn]

Still does not explain the relevance....

I was off topic - just throwing another "what if" in there. Maybe I'll start another thread.

 

[McBell]

I was off topic - just throwing another "what if" in there.

Fair enough.

Maybe I'll start another thread.

Good idea.

 

[challupa]

My understanding of those few verses in the Bible that denounce homosexuality was not that it in itself was evil, but the practice was counter productive to the "go forth and multiply" mentality the early tribes had. It was quite literally a survival of the tribe to keep on reproducing more members for a tribe. Later on in history, we see homosexuality being a form of birth control when families were getting to large. More in the Mediterranian countries. The Israelites were always being threatened with extinction by surrounding countries, so it makes sense to preach against anything that wouldn't further reproduction.

 

[challupa]

you live in Isreal, so it may be easy for you to visit "Lot lake" , then you may descover whether gays deserve punishment or not.

Okay let's take that story. In your definition, homosexuality is not okay, but the giving up of one's daughter's to be raped by the crowd is okay? Because that was what Lot did to save the two male angels from the crowd that were demanding him to give them up to them. Also, what about the incest in that story that went on between Lot and his daughters. Are we do believe that is okay too? That is the problem when we take scripture as the inerrant and infallible word of God. We get caught up in so many of the inconsistencies and contradictions that we have to twist our logical minds in so many ways that in the end we come across as unbelievable. That is my opinion anyway.

 

[Sahar]

Okay let's take that story. In your definition, homosexuality is not okay, but the giving up of one's daughter's to be raped by the crowd is okay? Because that was what Lot did to save the two male angels from the crowd that were demanding him to give them up to them. Also, what about the incest in that story that went on between Lot and his daughters. Are we do believe that is okay too? That is the problem when we take scripture as the inerrant and infallible word of God. We get caught up in so many of the inconsistencies and contradictions that we have to twist our logical minds in so many ways that in the end we come across as unbelievable. That is my opinion anyway.

This is not according to the Qur'anic account. No rape or incest in the story of Lut according to the Qur'an. Prophet Lut was an example of righteousness.

 

[Sahar]

so should we consider animals as an Ideal model,

should we decide to follow animals rather than follow God's orders

Yeah, animals behavior became their moral standard which tells much about the nature of the behavior that such people advocate. It's really a shame to see this as persistent thinking and attitude; to get our moral definitions from animals that follow nothing but physical desires with ignoring the fact that the human intellect, spirituality and morality are what differentiate us from them.

 

[McBell]

:canoe:
*hopes he can get to high enough ground to be safe*

*suspects next world wide flood...*

 

[challupa]

This is not according to the Qur'anic account. No rape or incest in the story of Lut according to the Qur'an. Prophet Lut was an example of righteousness.

Well I for one am certainly glad that has been written out of history! It sure didn't look good for the founders of the "one god" religions for awhile. Lut is righteous, okay....

Mestemia is there room on that boat???

 

[ProudMuslim]

Unlessof course science disproves a particular belief or dogma.
Then it (science) is thrown out in favour of the belief or dogma.

This can be seen right here in this thread.

Well i was about to say i disagree with you, but then the word "dogma" is tricky since it can refer to any religious dogma. I will speak about Islam, so far science didn't disprove any particular belief if anything it approved many revelations. Until it does we can talk about that.

And right here in this thread we are debating about hypothetical situation, not a factual situation.