DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think he was being literal in the first example. You're right though, I don't think "I and my Father are one" means they are two names for the same being.
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When will Jesus return?
- Thread starter HouseofIsrael
- Start date
Actually, I think he was being literal in the first example. You're right though, I don't think "I and my Father are one" means they are two names for the same being.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
True...
In the first example he is merely stating that before Abraham was born, he existed. We find proof of this (biblical) in his prayer in chapter 17 of John.
The second example is him stating that he and his god are one in purpose. This is obvious in various places in the book of John as well as, once again, in his prayer to his god in chapter 17 of John.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
"When will Yeshua return?"
Truth be told we have no way of knowing if he actually existed.
The writers after him were just that...after his supposed death so they didn't know but was writing from what they heard from others.
Saul/Paul is the only "contemporary", that I know of, who wrote about him but even Paul never met him but "claims" he heard his voice....the same voice of a man he never actually met let alone heard speak when alive.
Maybe the story of Yeshua, like that of Adam, Eve, the Flood and the Exodus, are all allegory.
Truth be told we have no way of knowing if he actually existed.
The writers after him were just that...after his supposed death so they didn't know but was writing from what they heard from others.
Saul/Paul is the only "contemporary", that I know of, who wrote about him but even Paul never met him but "claims" he heard his voice....the same voice of a man he never actually met let alone heard speak when alive.
Maybe the story of Yeshua, like that of Adam, Eve, the Flood and the Exodus, are all allegory.
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HouseofIsrael
Member
Yes, the trinity maybe, but not God.
logician
Well-Known Member
I thought Jesus didn't exist so it doesn't matter.
Dang you changed your tune.
You're right, what was I thinking.
HouseofIsrael
Member
He was being literal in the understanding to point out he was god and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He couldn't mean physically and that was the understanding of the scribes and pharisees.
HouseofIsrael
Member
HouseofIsrael
Member
That math don't add up and never will, of course that's what he said (before abraham was i am) but that was metaphorical. The scribes and pharisees always try to challenge his intellect and teachings John 8: read from vs 52, it would be a mistake to interpret everything form a carnal prospective that's what they did so they never understood and they killed him. Your second statement is right on track.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
People tend to read more into what is there. Regardless of the interpretation...I'm always amazed how some come to the conclusion he saying he is God...when this is not what he is saying. I understand from verse 52. I've studied it and have extensive conversations with others here about verse 58 and I still will not be able to come to the conclusion most come to. When most try and use the verse in Exodus...I find them to be reaching in order to justify their inaccurate interpretation.....
Sorry folks...I digressed from the topic...
Regardless if hay-suse was real... What is up with people not understanding death so bad that they think that one dude is gonna buck death and come back from some celestial holy place he has just been chillin at for 2000 years...
Almost everyone has real experience with death. What is going on inside their head?
You goto sleep every night and you wake up... so death is the same thing? You have dreams while sleeping REM... brain activity... then You awake.
Do you have REM when your dead? Do you breathe? Is there any brain activity? If the brain holds and stores everything that makes you, well you.... What happens when it stops working?
What rationalization makes people think thats not the end.
Is it indoctrination or a special advanced form of wishful thinking? Is it disassociation with death or fear there of? Logically, afterlife is obviously false but rationalizing it is as old as probably humans... Going to live with the stars, paying the boat ferries, 101 virgins and a heaven for all cause jesus loves you yes he does?
Almost everyone has real experience with death. What is going on inside their head?
You goto sleep every night and you wake up... so death is the same thing? You have dreams while sleeping REM... brain activity... then You awake.
Do you have REM when your dead? Do you breathe? Is there any brain activity? If the brain holds and stores everything that makes you, well you.... What happens when it stops working?
What rationalization makes people think thats not the end.
Is it indoctrination or a special advanced form of wishful thinking? Is it disassociation with death or fear there of? Logically, afterlife is obviously false but rationalizing it is as old as probably humans... Going to live with the stars, paying the boat ferries, 101 virgins and a heaven for all cause jesus loves you yes he does?
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
You're quite the poet. I just can't seem to express my beliefs as elegantly as you somehow...
Anyway, I see no reason not to interpret the scripture literally, that Jesus existed first. I guess it could be referring to authority, as in Jesus comes first in authority. Either way, Jesus existed before the world was created anyway so it's a moot point in my opinion.
You're quite the poet. I just can't seem to express my beliefs as elegantly as you somehow...
I think you missed the point of my post?
You see no reason not to interpret it literally so you or your faith interprets that way and you see no reason to not interpret it differently. Putting the whole spirited away gold plates BOM tale who do you think wrote the bible? Who put it together? Who editted it?
What? Jesus existed before earth? You have nothing to back that except the fantasy world you have developed and rationalize. Realistically the tale of Jesus doesnt even prove the human version of said god existed. But you contend that not only that... but... get this... Jesus existed before even the earth was what? Created? Creationism is a joke and a creul one at that. I would take it to mean that you think god had a hand in forming the earth and testing souls on this dismal rock which circles a boring yellow sun which will destroy this rock eventually...
I dont even see this as an argument or a disagreement so much as I see it as a failure to acknowledge reality in lieu of reverence and worship of deity of your own construction.
A fantasy which serves as a failure to understand death but does a great job at rationalizing it. A fantasy that serves as a failure to understand modern science but provides a real purpose which you will never know to be meaningless?
I dunno. The history of afterlife and spirits, black magic, horoscopes, witches and most recently this jesus and allah dude has caused more problems then I think are fixed by this implied delusion enforced onto the people for the benefits of a false sense of security and granting false purpose.
No offense mate but I think the its hooey. Bad and obvious hooey and I grew up indoctrinated with this nonsense.
Well I guess I really shoulda and I woulda if I coulda, but I didn't understand ya ----- yet I am not to blame.
"If it was so, it might be; and if it were, it would be;" but then you said it isn't; now mate, there’s the shame.... By S-word.
A little bit of Christ dwells in all of us, and Christ will rule when the chosen number unite as one. The risen body of Christ which was torn assunder and poured out as tongues of fire that settled on the heads of the believers who then, could never die. And they, in the kingdom of God that is within the body of mankind, have been gathering the spirits of all good people who had fallen asleep in righteous and they are the saviour within you, who are prepared to die for you in the process of involution, if you are true to and a faithful servant to who you are. And you will rise in evolution as he dies in involution untill you two are one and the same, and death will have no power over you.
When the required number of Jews and Gentiles are gathered together and take the thrones that have been prepared for them, (This is the first resurrection) Christ will then rule for a thousand years before fire incinerates the surface of this planet.
The time has come the people said, to speak of many things
Of managements and bosses, of governments and Kings
Of them who claim positions of superiority
They’re there because the people see fit that they should be
For like the mighty trees they stand, to feed and shelter all
The meek, the mild, the humble ones, the workers of the soil.
But when a tree no longer bears or shelters from the storm
Then we’ll unite and with our axe, we’ll bring the rotters down.
The moral of this story, is, if you’re up there on top
Take care of those who put you there, or face the lethal chop: ...... By S-word
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MEMNOCK
Spiritual Tour Guide
When will jesus return?
Well, assuming a great number of things....My guess is when we find his remains and clone him. Otherwise not a chance. Unless perhaps you belive in reincarnation, in that case he has probably been back a number of times.
If we could clone jesus, to the shock and horor of many christians, they would realize that he looks like those that this country is at war with...Not the brown haired, blue eyed, fair skinned image that they like to believe he looked like. Put a towel on his head and americans would group him with others we seek to destroy.
Well, assuming a great number of things....My guess is when we find his remains and clone him. Otherwise not a chance. Unless perhaps you belive in reincarnation, in that case he has probably been back a number of times.
If we could clone jesus, to the shock and horor of many christians, they would realize that he looks like those that this country is at war with...Not the brown haired, blue eyed, fair skinned image that they like to believe he looked like. Put a towel on his head and americans would group him with others we seek to destroy.
HouseofIsrael
Member
Ok. so there's no Jesus to look forward to in your opinion, alright. Well if that's really true it wont reach me hard anyway because I look forward to God and one of my fundamental belief is that Jesus cannot return on his own accord by any means.
The above quote is what hit me a little bit, so my friend are you saying the popular photos and paintings we see everywhere is a negative representation of what the man Jesus actually looks like? because i have done some research myself and would like to put the puzzles together.
logician
Well-Known Member
You're quite the poet. I just can't seem to express my beliefs as elegantly as you somehow...
Anyway, I see no reason not to interpret the scripture literally, that Jesus existed first. I guess it could be referring to authority, as in Jesus comes first in authority. Either way, Jesus existed before the world was created anyway so it's a moot point in my opinion.
The world wasn't created, it coalesced thru the gravitaional attraction of matter as the universe slowly cooled down from the big bang.
HouseofIsrael
Member
What big bang? that's scientific theory never proven.
Azakel
Liebe ist für alle da
And your religious beliefs have been proven? By what you just said you have shown that you don't understand Science and how it works.
MEMNOCK
Spiritual Tour Guide
Don't you know Azakel, religious belief doesn't need any proof. All you have to do is believe...like santa claus and the tooth fairy....
HouseofIsrael
Member
I agree.