ppp
Well-Known Member
That is most certainly true.
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Where are the people?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
@Sgt. Pepper
What is incredible is that certain atheists cannot see what is so obvious. Since they have no proof of anything they say to me, that means it is only their personal opinion. At least I admit that all I have is a belief, which is my personal opinion, since I have no proof!
There can be no common ground when people believe that are on higher ground. Not all atheists are like this but the ones who are stick out like a sore thumb. Of course, they cannot even see what they are doing since they are on such high ground, far above the rest of us.
What is incredible is that certain atheists cannot see what is so obvious. Since they have no proof of anything they say to me, that means it is only their personal opinion. At least I admit that all I have is a belief, which is my personal opinion, since I have no proof!
There can be no common ground when people believe that are on higher ground. Not all atheists are like this but the ones who are stick out like a sore thumb. Of course, they cannot even see what they are doing since they are on such high ground, far above the rest of us.
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
That's the way I look at it when others disagree with my beliefs or with anything else I share about myself. They can take it or leave it. It's up to them.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Come back when you are able to personally articulate a distinction between sound conclusions and mere personal opinions.
Imagine if we blindly believed everything we are told? We would be so easily manipulated that humanity may have ceased to exist long ago if it were not for those who have questioned and even been killed for doing so. After being deceived and led into wars and mass carnage by selfish and ambitious religious leaders it is fully understandable the mistrust towards religion and God related beliefs. Terrorism, child sexual abuse and the inquisition, holy wars, crusades leaves a very strong feeling of opposition to religion and so people choose to be atheists.
But in my humble opinion, those who have turned away from corruption and violence in religion are right. If religion becomes a cause of hatred, war and bloodshed then it’s better not to have it at all. This is the conclusion many atheists have come to rightfully and I fully agree with them.
So it’s up to religionists to show this has all changed and they can be a force for peace and good in the world. Words won’t really convince anyone. It will take a sincere change within religion over centuries to win back humanity’s trust so I believe this is an ongoing issue that cannot be resolved overnight but is a work in progress. Atheists are good people who have seen and pointed out the corruption in religion and I agree but true religion which is about being of upright and virtuous character and looking out for one another is not something we want to get rid of. By all means we should throw out the bad that religion has accumulated but just not the baby with the bathwater.
But in my humble opinion, those who have turned away from corruption and violence in religion are right. If religion becomes a cause of hatred, war and bloodshed then it’s better not to have it at all. This is the conclusion many atheists have come to rightfully and I fully agree with them.
So it’s up to religionists to show this has all changed and they can be a force for peace and good in the world. Words won’t really convince anyone. It will take a sincere change within religion over centuries to win back humanity’s trust so I believe this is an ongoing issue that cannot be resolved overnight but is a work in progress. Atheists are good people who have seen and pointed out the corruption in religion and I agree but true religion which is about being of upright and virtuous character and looking out for one another is not something we want to get rid of. By all means we should throw out the bad that religion has accumulated but just not the baby with the bathwater.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Name something real that you can demonstrate to be true and of value that also requires the existence of religion?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
This is a work in progress that will take ages and centuries although the Baha’is have offered to the UN our world community as a possibility of being used as a model to devise an international order inclusive of all humanity.
“Its existence is yet another convincing proof of the practicality of its Founder’s vision of a united world, another evidence that humanity can live as one global society, equal to whatever challenges its coming of age may entail. If the Bahá’í experience can contribute in whatever measure to reinforcing hope in the unity of the human race, we are happy to offer it as a model for study.” (This message was presented to world leaders and countless others during the United Nations International Year of Peace.)
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It will take a long time but there will come a time when it will have been demonstrated to everyone in the world....
As Baha'is we know that since Baha'u'llah wrote it.
“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249
But we need to be very understanding that in the current clime and with the past history of religion it’s very difficult for many to trust religion ever again through no fault of their own. When priests sexually abuse children and so much violence and wars in religion, materialism is bound to win out. The onus is now up to religionists to be most understanding on these matters that it is up to us to win back trust that has been abused for centuries.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Best post I think you've ever made.
But it's not as though, people believe blindly. They are told what to believe by people they trust. As with Evangelical Christians, they have what they believe to be verses that back up their beliefs. And verses that back up that the Bible and the NT are the Word of God. So, many of them are told to take it literally.
Yes, those religious views should be challenged. And if they can't be supported, they should be believed. But which religion can do that?
The "bathwater" is your religion, the Baha'i Faith. It still has too many claims that can't easily be supported, and for some of us, not supported at all. The main ones being that there is a God, and that Baha'u'llah is his prophet/manifestation.
In my opinion, you were the first Baha'i to humble himself in a post. This post shows some deep spiritual insight. Atheists don't have to be your enemies. The gods and religious beliefs that the Baha'is reject are also rejected by them. But Baha'is aren't going to build on that common ground by focusing and arguing about their beliefs about God.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Would you support a person who over decades repeatedly exhibits patterns of abuse, antipathy and corruption, produces nothing of demonstrable idiosyncratic value, consumes valuable resources to the detriment of everyone around; all while indolently shouting about how valuable and important he will be at some distant future time?
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Another great post. TB's post doesn't help. It is saying/claiming that the Baha'i Faith is the truth and will win out in the end. Sure, Baha'is believe that, but who else? Is it going to draw people in or push them away?
Unfortunately, you're fighting an uphill battle to win the respect of some of people here. And just a few posts back a Baha'i said that some atheists here think they are on higher ground. That sure sounds like finding fault in others.
And I expect to see some responses back that say the same thing about Baha'is... that the Baha'is think they are on the highest spiritual ground... Because they claim (but then say they don't claim) that they, the Baha'is, have the newest and latest prophet from God and that their teachings are therefore better and necessary for this day and age.
And we all know that Baha'is believe that, but when they act like that it feels like they are rubbing our noses in it. To us it sounds like... "We have the truth and you don't." Not a good attitude. Especially for a religion that claims it is for unity.
Universal unconditional acceptance of all people as equals whether religious or atheist, east or west, black or white or whichever social background is what is required for unity and harmony to prevail NOT for everyone to be religious or accept any one religion. The time must come for people to accept one another and not try and force their religion upon each other which only leads to disunity not bridge building and humans need to learn to accept their differences not endlessly try and get others to follow any one belief. Unity to me means acceptance of all rejection of none.
To accomplish what you are speaking of would require allowing other countries to absorb ours or else to immigrate. That would be the only way to reach the people in those other countries in the manner you suggest. No country is going to let lots of people cross in, so then the only way is to be absorbed and to have one's protective government removed. You give up your safety, your own protection. You risk losing everything to help a stranger. Not only that not every country will grant citizenship or even equal rights. So you give up everything, but then you might be in need of help.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Your God cannot speak to people except through a 19th Century uneducated Iranian? And what happens if we do not believe in this God? Does the world stop?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's true, but on the other hand, it is unjust to assume that the Baha'i Faith is just like all the other religions. It is also illogical to assume that, since it is the fallacy of hasty generalization.
It is also true that all the religions have not committed abuses just because certain one have done so, all the more reason not to commit the fallacy of hasty generalization.
Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a rushed conclusion without considering all of the variables. In statistics, it may involve basing broad conclusions regarding the statistics of a survey from a small sample group that fails to sufficiently represent an entire population.[3] Its opposite fallacy is called slothful induction, or denying a reasonable conclusion of an inductive argument (e.g. "it was just a coincidence").
Faulty generalization - Wikipedia
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was not talking about God speaking, I was talking about you speaking. I guess you did not catch that.