Where does the Quran say Muhammad is the last Messenger of God?

[InvestigateTruth]

By the way, this what I mean by not educating oneself. Bahais quote "seal of Awsiya" for Ali, but what does this mean? It means, there is no one to succeed a Prophet (directly) after Ali (a). Ali is the last to succeed a Nabi (directly).

To prove this, let's see the hadith itself:

Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Al-Husayn ibn Yusuf al-Baghdadi narrated that Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Anbasa quoted on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Soleiman al-Malti in the place of martyrdom of Ali ibn Abi Talib (ع), on the authority of Muhammad ibn Al-Qasim ibn Al-Abbas ibn Musa al-Alawi in Ibn Hobayras palace, and Darim ibn Qabaysa ibn Nahshal an-Nahshali that Ali ibn Musa ibn Jafar (ع) quoted on the authority of his father (ع), on the authority of his forefathers (ع), on the authority of Ali ibn Abi Talib (ع) that Gods Prophet (S) said, “O Ali I asked God for you whatever I asked Him for myself, except for Prophethood since God has said: There will be no Prophethood after you. You are the seal of the Prophets, and Ali is the seal of the Successors

• حدثنا محمد بن احمد بن الحسين بن يوسفالبغدادي قال حدثنا علي بن‏عنبسة قال حدثنا الحسن بن سليمان الملطي في مشهد علي بن ابي طالب‏ عليه السلام قال حدثنا محمد بن القاسم بن العباس بن موسي العلوي بقصر ابن هبيرة ودارم بن قبيصة بن نهشل النهشلي قالوا حدثنا علي بن موسي بن جعفر عليه السلام عن ابيه عن اباءه عن علي بن ابي طالب‏ عليه السلام قال قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه واله يا علي ما سالت انا ربي‏شيءا الا سالت لك مثله غير انه قال لا نبوة بعدك انت خاتم النبيين وعلي خاتم الوصيين

So the meaning of seal of successors, means, there will be no Wasi to a Nabi after Mohammad (s). Hassan (a) is successor of Ali (a), that is who he actually succeeds and INDIRECTLY a successor to Mohammad (s).


Do you see what I mean?

He is only one way interpreter and won't even check the hadiths and their context. Half quotes and decontextualization.

A hadith that shows there is NO Nubuwa after Mohammad (s) and uses Ali (a) as the seal of successors to imply there will never be in the future any Nabi to be succeeded by a successor, is taken totally out of context.

Yet we are supposed to believe he is representing the hadiths. When he won't even check their full context in other sources.

This is why I'm convinced they are people following conjecture and passions, not those of reason and looking for clear proofs and evidence.

They built on shallow ambiguities.

I see how you interpret Seal of Successors.

But the word Wassi وصي، does not mean successor. The word for successor is خليف khaliph in Hadithes. Because خلف means behind, and Khalif mean, one who comes after another one.
But the word وصي is like ولي means guardian. It is a reference to guardians of the Faith of God.

 

[Link]

@Link
Dua Nudbih is about Imam Mahdi, but it was not written by Imam Mahdi. It is from Imam Sadiq:

Muhammad Baqir Majlisi wrote this prayer in Zaad-ul-Maad from Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq.

Du'a Nudba - Wikipedia

Most of the chains I know go through Imam Mahdi (a) through one of his Safeers. I will have to check Zaad-ul-Maad and Behar Al-Anwar from Majlisi, see if it goes straight to Imam Jaffar (a) or same route.

 

[Link]

I see how you interpret Seal of Successors.

But the word Wassi وصي، does not mean successor. The word for successor is خليف khaliph in Hadithes. Because خلف means behind, and Khalif mean, one who comes after another one.
But the word وصي is like ولي means guardian. It is a reference to guardians of the Faith of God.

Wasi means successor. Khalif also means successor but can also mean representative or even ruler. Wasi and Awsiya are successors. Wali, Awliya, Mawla have no meaning except by context. It's a relationship that has to be known by the context and can include multiple words in the meaning. Wasi means successor though.

 

[Link]

Also, before that you were stating Khalif means Imam and doesn't mean successor. You can't get your story straight. Arabic words have multiple meaning and by context they are known.

 

[Link]

Wasi and khalif to Mohammad (S) mean the same thing, except the first one is emphasizing he executes the exact will of the Nabi (s) when succeeding him, and the other meaning he takes the position of Mohammad (s) has with the people. They both mean successor though in the context of hadiths.

The word Wasi just implies he will continue the will and execute the way and role of the Prophet (s) after Prophet (s) is gone, while the khalif just means he has taken the position of Mohammad (s) in the people and continues it.

They both imply successorship just add different meaning to it.

 

[Link]

I see how you interpret Seal of Successors.

It's just by gathering hadiths that contextualize it. Allah (swt) says "there is no Nubuwa after you: You are the seal of Prophets and Ali is the Seal of successors", it's very clear!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's just by gathering hadiths that contextualize it. Allah (swt) says "there is no Nubuwa after you: You are the seal of Prophets and Ali is the Seal of successors", it's very clear!

: "ولم يجز لنبي نبوة حتى يأخذ خاتما من محمد فلذلك سمي خاتم النبيين ، محمد سيد النبيين وأنا سيد الوصيين"
Imam Ali has said, "The permission of Prophecy was not given to a Prophet untill he recieves a permission from Muhammad, so that he has been named the Seal of Prophets. Muhammad is the Master of the Prophets and I am the Master of the Guardians."

So, according to this Hadith, the term Khatam, or Seal has nothing to do with Fiinality. It has more to do with being the best and master.

as regards to the word Wali, and Wassi, it means Guardian:

"The closest of people to Ibrāhīm are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe; and Allah is the Guardian of all believers." 3:68

إِنَّ أَوْلَى ٱلنَّاسِ بِإِبْرَهِيمَ لَلَّذِينَ ٱتَّبَعُوهُ وَهَذَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ
المومنين


وقال أمير المؤمنين 7 : ختم محمد ألف نبي وإني ختمت ألف وصي وإني كلفت مالم يكلفوا.

It means, Ali said Muhammad is the Last of a 1000 Prophets and I am last of a 1000 guardians.
So, in this, it means, out of 1000, they are the last ones. It doesn't mean there won't be more in future.

It is said there are 124000 Prophets.

Anyways, I know your view and you know my view.

 

[rational experiences]

God is one Says so from Adam to Mohammad pbuh. Science proves Allah's blessings to mankind if they only take heed and yet we don't need science to prove anything. In Islam, there will come a day, a day of 50,000 years and that day is The Day of Judgement, where everyone will be held accountable for their own actions.


I don't know how you express yourself, but if you need to ask a question can you just ask straight forward?

Irradiated brains hear voices by causes then speak non directionally. Is the teaching already. I can't do what you expect be hurt and healed in the same concept.

To talk like I had before is impossible.

Even the bible says language was changed in the heavens as change.

If Muslims claim Muhammad first only then last. First it was first a hot burning star mass. Now it's cold. So landed the body. men say I am safe. Saved from the attack. Glory to gods saving cooling.

Either that body mass still exists moving or it ended hitting earth.

Two times since earth was hit so was 1000 year ago Muhammad again? As 50,000 years later?

As creation themes you don't own as any man. You talk about it as a subject. The only object you own is yourself.

Russia would make it three hits not one. Science says it's science began as calculus change by four. Science and man's science causes.

As wise men were always mathematicians scientists.

Father told me by voice heard our brothers problem he lives within heavens then says he owns it. Using only water oxygen himself not gases. He also owns science so says now science owns it by my human claim.

A human isn't science. So Jesus teaching had to teach no man is God as they predicted two more hits. 2012.

Why updated science advice was published in all philosophers papers. Agreed.

It was by term first one mass portion by space held law the teaching mother owned law I changed. Three hits. We should be sacrificed but saved.

Then science nuclear power plants modern nuclear owned by all men took that prediction end away.

UFO sun mass is like a machine cold metal. It cannot harm us unless a theist says let me convert it within our heavens. To get portion radiation earth mass never owned naturally the sun did.

Spiritual society was once a multi cultural order knew the family world population innocent and Muslim father's agreed.

So everyone knew a war against innocence was not correct.

It had to be dealt with by spiritual astute strong minded spiritual men representing our humanity as father leadership.

Is what father is calling for today. Men of spiritual certainty. Oblivious to the motivated destroyers determined theme let's blow everyone up.

Strong men of good will.

 

[Link]

"The closest of people to Ibrāhīm are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe; and Allah is the Guardian of all believers." 3:68

إِنَّ أَوْلَى ٱلنَّاسِ بِإِبْرَهِيمَ لَلَّذِينَ ٱتَّبَعُوهُ وَهَذَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ وَلِىُّ
المومنين

Here the word Wali is defined with being closest to Ibrahim, and it means Allah (swt) is the close one in relationship to believers in all that. He is one makes them closer to Ibrahim and is the close one to them and in fact truest close one to them. Translators who try to consistently translate the word will get to fail moments for example, many verses say not to take other then Allah (swt) - Walis (Awliya), and it means in that context inclusive of godship. So if you try to consistently translate it with one word, you will get contradictions. It's a weird word in that it has no meaning in itself, it's just a relationship, but that relationship you should be able tell by the context of the words around it.

Wali, Awliya, Mawla is always contextual.

Wasi means successor but with respect to executing will as opposed to khalif which has more to do with taking place of the person. They both mean successor.

 

[Link]

:
So, according to this Hadith, the term Khatam, or Seal has nothing to do with Fiinality.

According to this one maybe. But according to the one I quoted, it definitely has to do with that. So how do you go about solving the contradiction in the two? To me, it's clear, the context of Quran is not about Mohammad (s) stamping approval of Nubuwa of all Prophets (a) which is what it means per the hadith you quoted. Rather, God is the one who chooses Prophets, not Mohammad (s). So the meaning that it's final is obvious.

The hadith wreaks of Tawfid, that Mohammad (s) and Ali (A) decide who is chosen, rather then God. This is what Muwafida would have fabricated. They believed from start to now, universe has been delegated to Ahlulbayt (a) and they rule on behalf of God. Here the hadith is saying Mohammad (s) literally is stamp of approval, that permits Prophets to become Prophets.

Also, how are we supposed to know by Quran Ali (a) is not a Nabi? Remember hadiths have to be referred back to Quran. To me, it's obvious the way we know Imams (A) were not Anbiya in Quran was by verse 33:40.

By the way, the word Khatam is more clear in that he is putting a halt to Anbiya while the word "akher" can be said he is the last as of now - the last one so far sent.

 

[Link]

Keep in mind there was sects who did believe Ali (a) and his successors (a) were Prophets. How would they be refuted. They would have their own set of hadiths - so you can't refute them by hadiths. So you have to refute them by referring the hadiths to Quran.

 

[MyM]

Irradiated brains hear voices by causes then speak non directionally. Is the teaching already. I can't do what you expect be hurt and healed in the same concept.

To talk like I had before is impossible.

Even the bible says language was changed in the heavens as change.

If Muslims claim Muhammad first only then last. First it was first a hot burning star mass. Now it's cold. So landed the body. men say I am safe. Saved from the attack. Glory to gods saving cooling.

Either that body mass still exists moving or it ended hitting earth.

Two times since earth was hit so was 1000 year ago Muhammad again? As 50,000 years later?

As creation themes you don't own as any man. You talk about it as a subject. The only object you own is yourself.

Russia would make it three hits not one. Science says it's science began as calculus change by four. Science and man's science causes.

As wise men were always mathematicians scientists.

Father told me by voice heard our brothers problem he lives within heavens then says he owns it. Using only water oxygen himself not gases. He also owns science so says now science owns it by my human claim.

A human isn't science. So Jesus teaching had to teach no man is God as they predicted two more hits. 2012.

Why updated science advice was published in all philosophers papers. Agreed.

It was by term first one mass portion by space held law the teaching mother owned law I changed. Three hits. We should be sacrificed but saved.

Then science nuclear power plants modern nuclear owned by all men took that prediction end away.

UFO sun mass is like a machine cold metal. It cannot harm us unless a theist says let me convert it within our heavens. To get portion radiation earth mass never owned naturally the sun did.

Spiritual society was once a multi cultural order knew the family world population innocent and Muslim father's agreed.

So everyone knew a war against innocence was not correct.

It had to be dealt with by spiritual astute strong minded spiritual men representing our humanity as father leadership.

Is what father is calling for today. Men of spiritual certainty. Oblivious to the motivated destroyers determined theme let's blow everyone up.

Strong men of good will.

mumbo jumbo

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Irradiated brains hear voices by causes then speak non directionally. Is the teaching already. I can't do what you expect be hurt and healed in the same concept.

To talk like I had before is impossible.

Even the bible says language was changed in the heavens as change.

If Muslims claim Muhammad first only then last. First it was first a hot burning star mass. Now it's cold. So landed the body. men say I am safe. Saved from the attack. Glory to gods saving cooling.

Either that body mass still exists moving or it ended hitting earth.

Two times since earth was hit so was 1000 year ago Muhammad again? As 50,000 years later?

As creation themes you don't own as any man. You talk about it as a subject. The only object you own is yourself.

Russia would make it three hits not one. Science says it's science began as calculus change by four. Science and man's science causes.

As wise men were always mathematicians scientists.

Father told me by voice heard our brothers problem he lives within heavens then says he owns it. Using only water oxygen himself not gases. He also owns science so says now science owns it by my human claim.

A human isn't science. So Jesus teaching had to teach no man is God as they predicted two more hits. 2012.

Why updated science advice was published in all philosophers papers. Agreed.

It was by term first one mass portion by space held law the teaching mother owned law I changed. Three hits. We should be sacrificed but saved.

Then science nuclear power plants modern nuclear owned by all men took that prediction end away.

UFO sun mass is like a machine cold metal. It cannot harm us unless a theist says let me convert it within our heavens. To get portion radiation earth mass never owned naturally the sun did.

Spiritual society was once a multi cultural order knew the family world population innocent and Muslim father's agreed.

So everyone knew a war against innocence was not correct.

It had to be dealt with by spiritual astute strong minded spiritual men representing our humanity as father leadership.

Is what father is calling for today. Men of spiritual certainty. Oblivious to the motivated destroyers determined theme let's blow everyone up.

Strong men of good will.

mumbo jumbo

I to find it difficult to read, nearly all of it, but I can see there is good in what is offered, I just can not understand it all.

The last 3 passages were easier to read. I think rational experiences does not believe in Messengers and that every human controls our destiny, men of good will that choose virtue over vices.

In the 3nd, one needs to post in a way people have a chance to understand and I do not see rational experiences has achieved that in RF? Others may know?

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

I to find it difficult to read, nearly all of it, but I can see there is good in what is offered, I just can not understand it all.

The last 3 passages were easier to read. I think rational experiences does not believe in Messengers and that every human controls our destiny, men of good will that choose virtue over vices.

In the 3nd, one needs to post in a way people have a chance to understand and I do not see rational experiences has achieved that in RF? Others may know?

Regards Tony

Men are natural first. Father's spirit spiritual is first. No messengers involved.

You don't accept.

Your idea messenger extra radiation came from star fall.

For a returned God by machine conditions.

Jesus died humanity animals nature not just your own preaching self scientist.

You overlooked the truth of why and causes.

Father said adulterer erer I first made two choice in one life.

Sex.

I was wrong.

Father's chose celibacy by psyche advice.

Yet mother should have judged not father.

Reasoned a mother's babies she would have sent all to church for healing. As irradiation changed everyone.

For healing. And not punished.

The difference in life of being celibate by wisdom. Not judging to still judging false science preaching.

Punishment was defined for social control that hypocrite scientists had caused.

Mind change.

Some people think claiming a Muslim father by respectful words isn't warranted. He is still my brother.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

According to this one maybe. But according to the one I quoted, it definitely has to do with that. So how do you go about solving the contradiction in the two? To me, it's clear, the context of Quran is not about Mohammad (s) stamping approval of Nubuwa of all Prophets (a) which is what it means per the hadith you quoted. Rather, God is the one who chooses Prophets, not Mohammad (s). So the meaning that it's final is obvious.

The hadith wreaks of Tawfid, that Mohammad (s) and Ali (A) decide who is chosen, rather then God. This is what Muwafida would have fabricated. They believed from start to now, universe has been delegated to Ahlulbayt (a) and they rule on behalf of God. Here the hadith is saying Mohammad (s) literally is stamp of approval, that permits Prophets to become Prophets.


Also, how are we supposed to know by Quran Ali (a) is not a Nabi? Remember hadiths have to be referred back to Quran. To me, it's obvious the way we know Imams (A) were not Anbiya in Quran was by verse 33:40.

By the way, the word Khatam is more clear in that he is putting a halt to Anbiya while the word "akher" can be said he is the last as of now - the last one so far sent.

In fact the word Khatam does not literally mean end or last in Arabic. That is a fact.
The word Khatim, means Last, but Khatam is different from Khatim.

Specifically Persians have this incorrect generalization that, the words in Arabic always have a meaning related to the root of the main word.

For example, consider the word علم.
It means knowledge, and the verb means to know.
Now when you make words with this verb, it has a similar meaning.
For example معلم، عالِم، علامه، تعليم

All these words are made from the same root, علم. Their meaning is similar.
For example عالِم means scholar, or scientist.
Now, consider the word عالَم.
Although it appears to be from the same root, in fact it is not. Alam, means World!. It has nothing with knowledge.

The word ختم is just like that.
When it is خاتِم، it means the ender, the one who closes or ends. But when it is خاتَم is just another word. It has nothing to with ختم.

In fact in today's Arabic Khatam means a wedding ring. In Hadithes you can see, for example it is said:
.
2- عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ دَرَّاجٍ عَنْ يُونُسَ بْنِ ظَبْيَانَ وَ حَفْصِ بْنِ غِيَاثٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالا قُلْنَا جُعِلْنَا فِدَاكَ أَ يُكْرَهُ أَنْ يَكْتُبَ الرَّجُلُ فِي خَاتَمِهِ غَيْرَ اسْمِهِ وَ اسْمِ أَبِيهِ فَقَالَ فِي خَاتَمِي مَكْتُوبٌ- اللَّهُ خالِقُ كُلِّ شَيْ‌ءٍ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ أَبِي مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ كَانَ خَيْرَ مُحَمَّدِيٍّ رَأَيْتُهُ بِعَيْنِي الْعِزَّةُ لِلَّهِ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ ع- الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْعَظِيمِ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ الْحَسَنِ وَ الْحُسَيْنِ ع‌ حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ* وَ فِي خَاتَمِ أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع اللَّهُ الْمَلِكُ.

الكافي- ط الاسلامية - الشيخ الكليني - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

In these examples obviously the word Khatam has nothing to do with Finality.

If we follow the logic in this Hadith, it says, for example, in Khatam of Hassan and Hussein it is written حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ.

Likewise if we interpret the Term Seal of Prophets, or Khatam of Nabyeen, it is completely symbolic. It means that if all Prophets had a Ring, then on their Ring it is written "Muhammad", thus Muhammad is Khatam of Prophets. As this Hadith says:

الحسن بن أبي العقب [1] الصيرفي ، عن الحسين بن خالد ، عن أبي الحسن الرضا 7 ـ في حديث ـ قال : كان نقش خاتم آدم : لا إله إلا الله ، محمد رسول الله ـ

تفصيل وسائل الشيعة إلى تحصيل مسائل الشّريعة - الشيخ حرّ العاملي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت


On the Ring of Adam it is written there is no God except Allah and Muhammad is Messenger of Allah

Now, I am not saying that Muhammad did not say, 'there is no Prophet after Me'. I believe He did. But the term Khatam does not mean that.

One possible interpretation is, since Muhammad is the One who gave permission to all Prophets (symbolically speaking), thus the best Prophet, or the Master of Prophets has come, thus, there is no Prophet after Him. So, designation of Khatam, just shows the station of Muhammad, and that He is the best of the Prophets.

Thus, the word Khatam literally does not mean last. In fact when this word was used in Persian, it was an Art:

Khatam - Wikipedia

This is about making beautiful shapes (نقش)، as even the original word means a shape or writing on a ring, or ornamentation.

As regards to verse 33:40, I don't believe the context has to do with Finality of revelation.
Looking at afew verses before and after, the subject is not about Finality.

The verse itself is just about the station of Muhammad, saying He is the Seal of Prophets, He is a Messenger of God, and He has no Son among people.

However this belief that until Day of Resurrection there is no Prophet or Messenger is completely compatible with the Quran. This is why I believe the Hadithes that says No Prophet after Muhammad is compatible with the Quran.

Ali, is not a Nabi, but He has a greater station than Prophets of Bani Israel. I am not saying He has a greater station than Jesus or Mose. But those Prophets such as Soleyman who did not have new Sharia. This is compatible with the Quran, as there is no verse saying that before the Day of Resurrection, one should expect a Prophet or Nabi.

 

[rational experiences]

In human life one man thinks. He says I will lead you by my words.

In modern times we state he is a theist.

The theist then has to get his... just human men brothers to agree. Leadership man..just one instated.

So after life was irradiated by man's one chosen thesis science I want to learn then falsely copy reactions ..reactions irradiated him .....

He said the stars fell.

Then he said I live I learn I learnt I teach.

Said brother to brother don't self idolise your brother we all were brain conscious changed. Yet man his brother self included is idolised.

All men just happen to be brothers.

Ignored as your brother idolised as a brother just one man the scientist theist. Himself.

All things he said were one. Each thing a one of. If one thing is one of. You thesis a mass of one thing first only then mass proved you brother wrong.

Leader scientist theist storyteller liar science the state he never invented he theoried about change himself.

By his ownership. His status.

He chose it ....created change as brother the theist one man first.

What you taught me attacked sacrificed sisters life.

 

[Link]

In fact the word Khatam does not literally mean end or last in Arabic. That is a fact.
The word Khatim, means Last, but Khatam is different from Khatim.

Specifically Persians have this incorrect generalization that, the words in Arabic always have a meaning related to the root of the main word.

For example, consider the word علم.
It means knowledge, and the verb means to know.
Now when you make words with this verb, it has a similar meaning.
For example معلم، عالِم، علامه، تعليم

All these words are made from the same root, علم. Their meaning is similar.
For example عالِم means scholar, or scientist.
Now, consider the word عالَم.
Although it appears to be from the same root, in fact it is not. Alam, means World!. It has nothing with knowledge.

The word ختم is just like that.
When it is خاتِم، it means the ender, the one who closes or ends. But when it is خاتَم is just another word. It has nothing to with ختم.

In fact in today's Arabic Khatam means a wedding ring. In Hadithes you can see, for example it is said:
.
2- عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ دَرَّاجٍ عَنْ يُونُسَ بْنِ ظَبْيَانَ وَ حَفْصِ بْنِ غِيَاثٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالا قُلْنَا جُعِلْنَا فِدَاكَ أَ يُكْرَهُ أَنْ يَكْتُبَ الرَّجُلُ فِي خَاتَمِهِ غَيْرَ اسْمِهِ وَ اسْمِ أَبِيهِ فَقَالَ فِي خَاتَمِي مَكْتُوبٌ- اللَّهُ خالِقُ كُلِّ شَيْ‌ءٍ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ أَبِي مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ كَانَ خَيْرَ مُحَمَّدِيٍّ رَأَيْتُهُ بِعَيْنِي الْعِزَّةُ لِلَّهِ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ ع- الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْعَظِيمِ وَ فِي خَاتَمِ الْحَسَنِ وَ الْحُسَيْنِ ع‌ حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ* وَ فِي خَاتَمِ أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع اللَّهُ الْمَلِكُ.

الكافي- ط الاسلامية - الشيخ الكليني - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت

In these examples obviously the word Khatam has nothing to do with Finality.

If we follow the logic in this Hadith, it says, for example, in Khatam of Hassan and Hussein it is written حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ.

Likewise if we interpret the Term Seal of Prophets, or Khatam of Nabyeen, it is completely symbolic. It means that if all Prophets had a Ring, then on their Ring it is written "Muhammad", thus Muhammad is Khatam of Prophets. As this Hadith says:

الحسن بن أبي العقب [1] الصيرفي ، عن الحسين بن خالد ، عن أبي الحسن الرضا 7 ـ في حديث ـ قال : كان نقش خاتم آدم : لا إله إلا الله ، محمد رسول الله ـ

تفصيل وسائل الشيعة إلى تحصيل مسائل الشّريعة - الشيخ حرّ العاملي - کتابخانه مدرسه فقاهت


On the Ring of Adam it is written there is no God except Allah and Muhammad is Messenger of Allah

Now, I am not saying that Muhammad did not say, 'there is no Prophet after Me'. I believe He did. But the term Khatam does not mean that.

One possible interpretation is, since Muhammad is the One who gave permission to all Prophets (symbolically speaking), thus the best Prophet, or the Master of Prophets has come, thus, there is no Prophet after Him. So, designation of Khatam, just shows the station of Muhammad, and that He is the best of the Prophets.

Thus, the word Khatam literally does not mean last. In fact when this word was used in Persian, it was an Art:

Khatam - Wikipedia

This is about making beautiful shapes (نقش)، as even the original word means a shape or writing on a ring, or ornamentation.

As regards to verse 33:40, I don't believe the context has to do with Finality of revelation.
Looking at afew verses before and after, the subject is not about Finality.

The verse itself is just about the station of Muhammad, saying He is the Seal of Prophets, He is a Messenger of God, and He has no Son among people.

However this belief that until Day of Resurrection there is no Prophet or Messenger is completely compatible with the Quran. This is why I believe the Hadithes that says No Prophet after Muhammad is compatible with the Quran.

Ali, is not a Nabi, but He has a greater station than Prophets of Bani Israel. I am not saying He has a greater station than Jesus or Mose. But those Prophets such as Soleyman who did not have new Sharia. This is compatible with the Quran, as there is no verse saying that before the Day of Resurrection, one should expect a Prophet or Nabi.

So ring of the Prophets? Do you think God truly meant that?

 

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Salam

Also, dividing between Ahlulbayt and saying one is more important then the other because one brings a shariah (starts one), is against the principle of Quran not to distinguish between Messengers. That means Moses for example should not be seen more important then Aaron.

And why should it be? The second one has a hard task to continue guidance of the founder while people tend to become ignorant and disobey the successor. The successor of the successor also has no easy task.

This is conjecture that one is more important or has more important task then the other. If people believe in the founder, but disconnect from his Ahlulbayt, they go to hell. What's the point of "shariah" and brining one then?

It's like talking about the importance of building the foundations of a building, but then it's okay if the building is never built and it get's completely destroyed.

This is another reason why Bahai faith is false, because it doesn't understand the concept of an Ahlulbayt and the importance of all chosen ones - all of the Ahlulbayt have a known important station, rather Bahais distinguish and like Jews over emphasize on some over others.

 

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So ring of the Prophets? Do you think God truly meant that?

This may seem strange in our current language.
But those Hadithes show what they meant by the Khatam of Adam, Khatam of Ali, etc.
So, it seems in classical Arabic language, it means a person could have a Ring with some carving on it that is his identification. So, this verse suggests Rings of All Prophets had a carving with name of Muhammad. Or All prophets would have identified themselves as Muhammad. In this sense there is oneness among prophets. This is symbolic though. It can also mean that All past Prophets were aware of Muhammad from beginning and that Muhammad has a great station among Prophets. I believe this is what it means. Anyways it is symbolic. And the fact that makes one unsure what really God means by this term, puts this in the category of Mutishabihat.

 

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And the fact that makes one unsure what really God means by this term, puts this in the category of Mutishabihat.

If it's unclear to you, that's fair. Most of Quran can be unclear to you, nothing to do with Quran being unclear itself. But you giving weird meanings doesn't mean it should be unclear to others. If most people see it clearly to mean putting an end to Anbiya, that's their choice. After all, you believe all verses of day of judgment are unclear as well.

I think if I were to doubt it means something else then end of the Prophets, God has the right to destroy my light and put me in the fire forever. This is because I would believe he is deceptive and then Quran would all become unclear to me.