Who Or What Is Israel?

[Elihoenai]

Micah 7:19
He shall return and grant us compassion; He shall hide our iniquities, and You shall cast into the depths of the sea all their sins.

Psalm 103
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor has He repaid us according to our iniquities.
11 For, as the height of the heavens over the earth, so great is His kindness toward those who fear Him.
12 As the distance of east from west, He distanced our transgressions from us.

Psalm 51:5

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.


You have never understood what Sin Really Is. Your Judaic teachers Ruling that Sex on the Sabbath is Mitzvah is example Evidence that those under their Authority don't Really Know what Sin Is. To a Christian Gnostic the Ruling of Sex on the Sabbath is Mitzvah is a Total Violation and Mockery of the Law of Moses.

 

[Elihoenai]

To readers of this thread, this is what I wrote in post #320: Who Or What Is Israel?

"I'm not Under the Rulings of the teachings of your Judaic Priests/Teachers, therefore, Not Unlawful to me. On the other hand, if you can show that it is Unlawful in the Hebrew Bible to ask if a person is a convert than I will not ask again. The only Authority on matters of Law is the Law of Moses in the Hebrew Bible."


This is what @IndigoChild5559 child did editing my post in #321: Who Or What Is Israel?

"I'm not Under the Rulings of the teachings of your Judaic Priests/Teachers, therefore,"


This demonstrates that the Judaic teachers have greater Authority than the Hebrew Bible and the Law of Moses. All Power to the Hebrew Bible and the the Law of Moses. To a Christian Gnostic the Judaic Teachers have No Authority because they are False Earthly Teachers making False Proclamations from their Evil Heart like the False Christian Priests/Pastors. The False Earthly Teachers are Ordained by Elohim/God.

The Jewish practitioners of Judaism @IndigoChild5559 and @dybmh have the same traits dealing Falsely with Gentiles breaking the Law of Moses.

 

[Elihoenai]

Greater? Would you become Rostam or Arnold Schwarzenegger? In reality, you are already as big as you can be. There is nothing greater than you. The only thing is that ignorance (or prejudices) do not allow you to realize that.

Your Religion is Silly and Immature Not based in Reality. Every serious person strives to Become a Better/Greater Person. For example, if you want to become a Lifeguard you have to train to acquire Skills to Save People Becoming better at it as you train until you are Qualified. This is Growth as a Lifeguard. From your Immature Religious perspective, there is no need to train because you already are Qualified. You giving a Bad Representation of your Religion.

 

[rosends]

The only Authority on matters of Law is the Law of Moses in the Hebrew Bible.

says who?

 

[Aupmanyav]

For example, if you want to become a Lifeguard you have to train to acquire Skills to Save People Becoming better at it as you train until you are Qualified.

Yeah sure. Effort is required to get rid of superstition, silly ideas and one's prejudices. That is true in every religion including Hinduism. It took me quite a while to arrive at my current views. Buddha and Advaita are bare-bone minimalist religious ideas which demand evidence before acceptance. That is why God, soul, rebirth, heaven and hell do not figure in them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You do Not Know what Israel Is to a Christian Gnostic.

Pffffft ROFL. A Christian Gnostic has no authority to define who the People of Israel are. Only the People of Israel get to say who is one of us and who is not.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Psalm 51:5

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.


You have never understood what Sin Really Is. Your Judaic teachers Ruling that Sex on the Sabbath is Mitzvah is example Evidence that those under their Authority don't Really Know what Sin Is. To a Christian Gnostic the Ruling of Sex on the Sabbath is Mitzvah is a Total Violation and Mockery of the Law of Moses.

I refer you back to my previous post. You need to consider those verses. Everything that you are quoting, can only be understood in the context of what I quoted.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This demonstrates that the Judaic teachers have greater Authority than the Hebrew Bible and the Law of Moses.

You are having a difficult time understanding the relationship between written Torah and Oral Torah. Perhaps the following analogy will help.

In our country, we have sets of written law, federal, state, and local. But sometimes a case will arise and it is not clear how a particular law is applied. In such cases, a judge will make a particular determination. That ruling goes on record, and can be referred to in future cases. This is known as Case Law. Case Law exists side by side with written law, helping to interpret it. It makes no sense to say that Case Law is more authoritative or written law is more authoritative. They work together to make abiding by the law possible.

 

[Elihoenai]

says who?

Elohim/God says That The only Authority on matters of Law is the Law of Moses in the Hebrew Bible. This is what Elohim/God has taught me. Elohim/God has shown Jewish Karaites this same perspective of the Law of Moses Being the only Authority on matters of Law. Evidently, Elohim/God has shown you something different.

 

[Elihoenai]

Yeah sure. Effort is required to get rid of superstition, silly ideas and one's prejudices. That is true in every religion including Hinduism. It took me quite a while to arrive at my current views. Buddha and Advaita are bare-bone minimalist religious ideas which demand evidence before acceptance. That is why God, soul, rebirth, heaven and hell do not figure in them.

What Evidence did you have to provide in Buddha and Advaita before Acceptance? Elohim/God Demands Evidence in Authentic Christianity. Your understanding of Elohim/God is informed by the Roman Catholic Church. The Christianity that you perceive was given to you by the Temporal Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Elihoenai]

Pffffft ROFL. A Christian Gnostic has no authority to define who the People of Israel are. Only the People of Israel get to say who is one of us and who is not.

Yet, anybody can assert that they are the People of Israel and assert that they are the Authority on who the People of Israel are? In the same way a practitioner of Judaism has No Authority to define who is Christian Gnostic. You should be able to tell from my writings that I'm Christian Gnostic.


Gnosticism

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the proto-orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

I refer you back to my previous post. You need to consider those verses. Everything that you are quoting, can only be understood in the context of what I quoted.

This proves to readers that Jewish practitioners of Judaism cannot learn anything from Gentiles about the Hebrew Bible. Therefore, your are only on these forums to teach your perspective of Judaism.

 

[Elihoenai]

You are having a difficult time understanding the relationship between written Torah and Oral Torah. Perhaps the following analogy will help.

In our country, we have sets of written law, federal, state, and local. But sometimes a case will arise and it is not clear how a particular law is applied. In such cases, a judge will make a particular determination. That ruling goes on record, and can be referred to in future cases. This is known as Case Law. Case Law exists side by side with written law, helping to interpret it. It makes no sense to say that Case Law is more authoritative or written law is more authoritative. They work together to make abiding by the law possible.

There is no difficulty understanding. I'm saying that the way your Judaic Teachers Interpret the Oral Torah producing the Written Torah is Perverted. You depend on your Judaic Teachers, therefore, you don't want to Consider the Possibility of Perversion.

 

[Bthoth]

Elohim/God says That The only Authority on matters of Law is the Law of Moses in the Hebrew Bible. This is what Elohim/God has taught me. Elohim/God has shown Jewish Karaites this same perspective of the Law of Moses Being the only Authority on matters of Law. Evidently, Elohim/God has shown you something different.

Do you agree or consider that the laws are to help mankind learn and apply personal responsibility? That each and every soul should keep the rules (laws) personally for civili society?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There is no difficulty understanding. I'm saying that the way your Judaic Teachers Interpret the Oral Torah producing the Written Torah is Perverted. You depend on your Judaic Teachers, therefore, you don't want to Consider the Possibility of Perversion.

Do you still not understand that
1. Deuteronomy 17:8-13 actually gives that authority to interpret?
2. It is impossible for a community to follow the written Torah without interpretation?

I suspect that what you don't like here is simply the fact that the Rabbis interpreted things somewhat differently than YOU do, making YOURSELF the authority.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This proves to readers that Jewish practitioners of Judaism cannot learn anything from Gentiles about the Hebrew Bible. Therefore, your are only on these forums to teach your perspective of Judaism.

I'm on these forums because I greatly enjoy discussing religion. It's fun.

I am an openminded person, as is shown by the fact that in my life, I have changed my mind on some pretty major issues. For example, I have done an about turn on things like evolution and free will.

I'm very picky about what I accept as evidence. Quite frankly, a great many people on forums do not rise to those standards. But when someone does, I certainly listen to them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yet, anybody can assert that they are the People of Israel

No actually they can't. All tribal peoples have rules that guide who they accept as a member of their tribe. Outsiders have NO SAY IN IT. You cannot declare yourself a Jew any more than you can declare yourself a Lakota or Zulu or Cherokee.

 

[Bthoth]

Do you still not understand that
1. Deuteronomy 17:8-13 actually gives that authority to interpret?
2. It is impossible for a community to follow the written Torah without interpretation?

I suspect that what you don't like here is simply the fact that the Rabbis interpreted things somewhat differently than YOU do, making YOURSELF the authority.

Trusting authoritative entities has put people into wars and now even the leader of israel has become suspect on matters of the state.

I trust that people are capable, why dont you? Why is there always a condemnation of others before religious leadership?

 

[Bthoth]

No actually they can't. All tribal peoples have rules that guide who they accept as a member of their tribe. Outsiders have NO SAY IN IT. You cannot declare yourself a Jew any more than you can declare yourself a Lakota or Zulu or Cherokee.

Online, people can claim to be anything that they want. There is no authority to make sure or put a check mark next to a person, as if the party in question is actually what they say that they are.

I judge people and opinions by what they convey, not what they label or tell people. That is how and why I have no problem doubting any person, no matter their claim. Even you claimed evolving beyond belief but do any persons make you stop or put your posting into evaluation since it is against religious authority?

The topic of Judaism and Jews is very touchy to some because doubt of authority bothers people. But if people question or doubt christians or christianity, very few will put them parties in check.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No actually they can't. All tribal peoples have rules that guide who they accept as a member of their tribe. Outsiders have NO SAY IN IT. You cannot declare yourself a Jew any more than you can declare yourself a Lakota or Zulu or Cherokee.

Yeah, you can. People do it all the time. You may not accept it, but they do and even form their own groups. It's like how Orthodox Jews generally don't accept the conversions of Reform Jews, but why should the Reform Jews care what another denomination says about it?

According to what you've said in other posts, even a full blooded Jew is considered "lost" to the Jewish people if they practice another religion or intermarry, so it's really a religious issue at the end of the day and there will never be total agreement on that.