Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

Trusting authoritative entities has put people into wars and now even the leader of israel has become suspect on matters of the state.

I trust that people are capable, why dont you? Why is there always a condemnation of others before religious leadership?

I notice that you didn't reply to my comments.

 

[Bthoth]

I notice that you didn't reply to my comments.

which comments?

And the questions that I just asked in the previous comment here?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

which comments?

And the questions that I just asked in the previous comment here?

the comments that you quoted in your post.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah, you can.

I'm not talking about whether people do it illegitimately. I'm talking about legitimacy. For example, people murder. BUT it is prohibited by law. Law tells us things we can and cannot do. IN THAT RESPECT it is Jewish law that determines who is Jew. An outsider has absolutely no say in it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not talking about whether people do it illegitimately. I'm talking about legitimacy. For example, people murder. BUT it is prohibited by law. Law tells us things we can and cannot do. IN THAT RESPECT it is Jewish law that determines who is Jew. An outsider has absolutely no say in it.

However, there's different views and interpretations of Jewish law. Your Talmud itself is evidence of that, with different takes on issues from different rabbis. That there's different denominations of Judaism is further proof.

 

[Bthoth]

I notice that you didn't reply to my comments.

which comments?

And the questions that I just asked in the previous comment here?

the comments that you quoted in your post.

I did reply and why this is occurring now. That is why I asked the questions.


What are you expecting? There is another that is conversing with you and I am reading your claims. Do I agree with your acceptance of a religious authority having control? Absolutely NOT!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

However, there's different views and interpretations of Jewish law. Your Talmud itself is evidence of that, with different takes on issues from different rabbis. That there's different denominations of Judaism is further proof.

Where there are differences in halakha, that is an internal matter for us to work out between ourselves.

 

[Bthoth]

Where there are differences in halakha, that is an internal matter for us to work out between ourselves.

OK............. That's your 'way'... submission to a central authority.......... NOT MINE!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK............. That's your 'way'... submission to a central authority.......... NOT MINE!

I'm not sure what you mean by central authority. Judaism has no pope.

 

[Bthoth]

I'm not sure what you mean by central authority. Judaism has no pope.

You wrote it: ""Law tells us things we can and cannot do. IN THAT RESPECT it is Jewish law that determines who is Jew. An outsider has absolutely no say in it.""

I did not write what is authority.... You wrote it: """Rabbis interpreted things somewhat differently than YOU do.""

That is implying authority is given to another.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You wrote it: ""Law tells us things we can and cannot do. IN THAT RESPECT it is Jewish law that determines who is Jew. An outsider has absolutely no say in it.""

I did not write what is authority.... You wrote it: """Rabbis interpreted things somewhat differently than YOU do.""

That is implying authority is given to another.

Many others. The Torah gives the authority to interpret to the Levites and Judges (rabbis). But no one rabbi acts on their own and thinks they create new halakha. It is a process where they debate among themselves and reach conclusions, sometimes over very long periods of time. There are things they do not agree on. Nor is there is anything centralized about this authority. Usually when someone says centralized authority, they are referring to a specific place where exists a person or small group that makes all the decisions. That would not be true of us.

 

[Bthoth]

Many others. The Torah gives the authority to interpret to the Levites and Judges (rabbis).

I do not conform to such a belief. As anyone can read the interpretations and learn all by themselves. That is why using words makes religious material available to all.

But no one rabbi acts on their own and thinks they create new halakha.

'but that has happened.

It is a process where they debate among themselves and reach conclusions, sometimes over very long periods of time.

I know. It's how hadith was created too

There are things they do not agree on.

I know and like christianity, there are a bunch of flavors.

Nor is there is anything centralized about this authority.

Sure there is and why you are writing your response.

Usually when someone says centralized authority, they are referring to a specific place where exists a person or small group that makes all the decisions. That would not be true of us.

So you are writing based on 'when someone says' as if that catch-all is to correct 'other' or even my opinion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I do not conform to such a belief.

Oh, that's perfectly fine. I do not expect you to be a Jew.

 

[Bthoth]

Oh, that's perfectly fine. I do not expect you to be a Jew.

You expect what?

What gives you the right to impose that claim?

Why would you attack me personally and skip the dialogue?

 

[rosends]

Elohim/God says That The only Authority on matters of Law is the Law of Moses in the Hebrew Bible. This is what Elohim/God has taught me. Elohim/God has shown Jewish Karaites this same perspective of the Law of Moses Being the only Authority on matters of Law. Evidently, Elohim/God has shown you something different.

Well, the biblical text does say

and thou shalt come to the priests the Levites, and to the judge that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall tell thee the sentence of judgment:


וְעָשִׂ֗יתָ עַל־פִּ֤י הַדָּבָר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יַגִּ֣ידֽוּ לְךָ֔ מִן־הַמָּק֣וֹם הַה֔וּא אֲשֶׁ֖ר יִבְחַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֑ה וְשָׁמַרְתָּ֣ לַעֲשׂ֔וֹת כְּכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר יוֹרֽוּךָ׃
and thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the Lord shall choose shall tell thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:


עַל־פִּ֨י הַתּוֹרָ֜ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר יוֹר֗וּךָ וְעַל־הַמִּשְׁפָּ֛ט אֲשֶׁר־יֹאמְר֥וּ לְךָ֖ תַּעֲשֶׂ֑ה לֹ֣א תָס֗וּר מִן־הַדָּבָ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־יַגִּ֥ידֽוּ לְךָ֖ יָמִ֥ין וּשְׂמֹֽאל׃
according to the sentence of the Tora which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not deviate from the sentence which they shall tell thee, to the right hand, or to the left.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You expect what?

What gives you the right to impose that claim?

Why would you attack me personally and skip the dialogue?

Your response is bizarre. I said is did NOT expect. sheesh.

 

[Bthoth]

Well, the biblical text does say

and thou shalt come to the priests the Levites, and to the judge that shall be in those days, and inquire; and they shall tell thee the sentence of judgment:

The commandments are as good then as NOW. I will agree.

But NEVRE expect rational people top accept levites as the judges of mankind.

It would be like expecting Jews to accept that the big bibi nutlessyahoo is their absolute ruler.

וְעָשִׂ֗יתָ עַל־פִּ֤י הַדָּבָר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יַגִּ֣ידֽוּ לְךָ֔ מִן־הַמָּק֣וֹם הַה֔וּא אֲשֶׁ֖ר יִבְחַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֑ה וְשָׁמַרְתָּ֣ לַעֲשׂ֔וֹת כְּכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר יוֹרֽוּךָ׃
and thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the Lord shall choose shall tell thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:

OK, are they the same people that wrote ezek 22? Or are you suggesting that mankind must accept levite as judges of mankind?

עַל־פִּ֨י הַתּוֹרָ֜ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר יוֹר֗וּךָ וְעַל־הַמִּשְׁפָּ֛ט אֲשֶׁר־יֹאמְר֥וּ לְךָ֖ תַּעֲשֶׂ֑ה לֹ֣א תָס֗וּר מִן־הַדָּבָ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־יַגִּ֥ידֽוּ לְךָ֖ יָמִ֥ין וּשְׂמֹֽאל׃
according to the sentence of the Tora which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not deviate from the sentence which they shall tell thee, to the right hand, or to the left.

I get it, you expect control and have no pity for mankind or any that does not accept your superiority.

****Mod Edit****

 

[rosends]

The commandments are as good then as NOW. I will agree.

But NEVRE expect rational people top accept levites as the judges of mankind.

So the text says it but you deny it. Got it.

OK, are they the same people that wrote ezek 22? Or are you suggesting that mankind must accept levite as judges of mankind?

No. The text is for Jews.

I get it, you expect control and have no pity for mankind or any that does not accept your superiority.

****Mod Edit****

You don't like when you are proven wrong so you call me names. One would think that that is wrong on this website...

 

[Bthoth]

So the text says it but you deny it. Got it.

The text reflects keeping the commandments.

That is how to observe the good who and the other (bad). The good keep the rules (by choice).

No. The text is for Jews.

Are you trying to condemn Jews again?

You don't like when you are proven wrong so you call me names.

I do not nor have I called you names. ***STAFF EDIT***

One would think that that is wrong on this website...

Now you see one reason that I dont do it.

I think you are having arguments with yourself.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The text reflects keeping the commandments.

The text explicitly gives interpretational authority to the Levites and Judges, and commands the Israelites to obey them.