Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

That hasn't worked out too well with regard to improving the situations in the world. At least the Chassid in this area used to approach others and ask if they were Jewish and then invite them to their synagogue (only if they professed to be Jewish). I see that's not happening much anymore although there is a fairly large noticeable contingent of M. Schneerson's followers around here. Saturdays especially they walk with their children to the synagogue. And of course do not take cars or buses to get where they're going.

I think the world has become a better place. I realize that right now we are in a time of greater violence, but honestly, if you compare the last hundred years to say 1000 years ago, there is much less war. Violent crime is down considerably from 1991. Crimes like domestic violence, drunk driving, and child molestation are taken seriously today. And while racists still exist, the racist laws of our country have been dismantled. Heck, every country on the planet has now made slavery illegal. All sorts of good stuff has happened.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

May I ask how you think the reform Jews in particular pursue peace and justice? Just wondering...

They support causes such as racial equality, an end to sex discrimination, organizations such as the UN to increase dialogue between the nations, governmental policies that will feed and shelter the poor, etc.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think the world has become a better place. I realize that right now we are in a time of greater violence, but honestly, if you compare the last hundred years to say 1000 years ago, there is much less war. Violent crime is down considerably from 1991. Crimes like domestic violence, drunk driving, and child molestation are taken seriously today. And while racists still exist, the racist laws of our country have been dismantled. Heck, every country on the planet has now made slavery illegal. All sorts of good stuff has happened.

So many people are suffering.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So many people are suffering.

People have always suffered. I suffer. But humanity suffers less today than in our past. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest one is science. Because of science, we have modern medicine and tech. I'm not anti-religious, but I think it is only fair to note that science has done more to relieve human suffering than all religion has done in the entire history of humanity.

 

[YoursTrue]

People have always suffered. I suffer. But humanity suffers less today than in our past. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest one is science. Because of science, we have modern medicine and tech. I'm not anti-religious, but I think it is only fair to note that science has done more to relieve human suffering than all religion has done in the entire history of humanity.

Science has also caused great harm to innocent people by manufacturing bombs, and other things.

 

[YoursTrue]

People have always suffered. I suffer. But humanity suffers less today than in our past. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest one is science. Because of science, we have modern medicine and tech. I'm not anti-religious, but I think it is only fair to note that science has done more to relieve human suffering than all religion has done in the entire history of humanity.

Religion doesn't have a good record in stopping war and hatred. For the most part that happens now as well. Innocent people are killed.

 

[YoursTrue]

People have always suffered. I suffer. But humanity suffers less today than in our past. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest one is science. Because of science, we have modern medicine and tech. I'm not anti-religious, but I think it is only fair to note that science has done more to relieve human suffering than all religion has done in the entire history of humanity.

Science has not stopped war and crime and it never will.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Science has not stopped war and crime and it never will.

Science certainly doesn't fix all bad things. My remark was simply that it had relieved suffering far more than religion.

You do realize, I'm sure, that religion also does not stop war or crime? Edit -- I see from your other posts that you do acknowledge this.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Science has also caused great harm to innocent people by manufacturing bombs, and other things.

The net results of science weigh FAR more in the direction of relieving suffering.

 

[YoursTrue]

The net results of science weigh FAR more in the direction of relieving suffering.

Glad you see I agree religious beliefs can certainly contribute to war. People of the same religion but different countries can kill each other and think they're doing the right thing.
There are many problems resulting from war now. Many people are horribly hurt by the effects of war. Both "sides." Even those that are caught in the crossfire. Now. I do agree that religion has not stopped wars. One of my term papers was about the United Nations. Even then, before I knew God (and different from some, actually now BELIEVE what the Bible says about Him) I realized the U.N. could not stop wars, even though it says it tries. We can see this happening now. It just ain't happening. Religious or otherwise. Although it's clear religious leanings certainly play a big part in hostility towards others.
Therefore -- and consequently, I do believe what the Bible says about the future. I believe firmly that God will put an end to wars. I believe as Maimonides said and which every religious Jewish male might say every day -- that there is going to be a resurrection of the dead. Praise God for that. Take care. (P.S. I actually look forward to seeing Maimonides some day.)

 

[YoursTrue]

The net results of science weigh FAR more in the direction of relieving suffering.

I'm not putting science down. But it won't stop suffering from the results of war, crime, abuse, and things like that. Do you think a mother whose child is maimed or killed by a bomb would be happy thinking that science far outweighs suffering? You may think so. I do not.

 

[YoursTrue]

The net results of science weigh FAR more in the direction of relieving suffering.

Put it on a measuring scale and one side says relief from suffering because of science and the other side says relief of suffering from the results of war, crime, rape, torture and things like that. Sorry to say but what the above sentence says about the "net results of science" outweigh the results of suffering is -- ridiculous. And sad. Maybe the ones suffering from bombings, rapes, torture, injustice and other horrors will take solace in your belief that science outweighs their suffering.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm not putting science down. But it won't stop suffering from the results of war, crime, abuse, and things like that. Do you think a mother whose child is maimed or killed by a bomb would be happy thinking that science far outweighs suffering? You may think so. I do not.

Your reasoning is illogical. You are slicing out a small piece of human suffering, and then generalizing from it. That is a logical fallacy. It is known as the hasty generalization fallacy.

What you need to do instead, is to create a box in your mind for all human suffering, war, natural disasters, poverty, etc. EVERYTHING. Then compare the total amount of relief given by religion, to the total amount of relief given by science.

 

[YoursTrue]

Your reasoning is illogical. You are slicing out a small piece of human suffering, and then generalizing from it. That is a logical fallacy. It is known as the hasty generalization fallacy.

What you need to do instead, is to create a box in your mind for all human suffering, war, natural disasters, poverty, etc. EVERYTHING. Then compare the total amount of relief given by religion, to the total amount of relief given by science.

No, my reasoning is not illogical. I am saying that human suffering is not on an equal level with scientific achievements. Human suffering far outweighs scientific achievements in the sadness and misery. There is no comparison, no balance. All human suffering will definitely be done away with (something you don't believe even though you claim whatever...as many others do, too) by God in the future. For this I can be happy. I certainly do not think science will do away with suffering. Maybe you think science will raise the dead. Hey, why not? I've heard all kinds of theories here and elsewhere, maybe you think some speak with the dead, too. And you know what? I am absolutely convinced that science will not solve mankind's problems. I am also sure that some people do get better or avoid sickness because of science. That does not mean that suffering is on an equal basis in any shape or form with science. Anyway, bye for now...take care...make sure you take whatever medical measures you may need to protect yourself.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, my reasoning is not illogical.

Go back and read my post again. I didn't just accuse you of being illogical, I proved it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Go back and read my post again. I didn't just accuse you of being illogical, I proved it.

And here I thought you said (No, I read that you wrote): "Your reasoning is illogical. You are slicing out a small piece of human suffering, and then generalizing from it. That is a logical fallacy. It is known as the hasty generalization fallacy."
Sorry, but why don't you tell me that science will cure human suffering? OK?

 

[YoursTrue]

Go back and read my post again. I didn't just accuse you of being illogical, I proved it.

OK, here's something else for you to ponder over: (aside from Whoever does not see God everywhere does not see Him anywhere.” – Kotzker Rebbe) --

Religion and the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Something for you to think about regarding the role of religion in the war on Ukraine. Of course there's more, it's interesting so enjoy.

Judaism​

Rabbi Berel Lazar and other Russian religious leaders (Muslim, Buddhist, Russian Orthodox) during the official celebrations of the National Unity Day, 2015
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Jewish.[41][42][43][44][45]
Haaretz has reported that the Russian government has pressured Russian Jewish institutions to speak in favour of the invasion, including with threats of retaliation if those institutions did not.[46] Some Jewish Russian opposition figures have been targeted with antisemitic threats due to their opposition to the war, including Alexei Venediktov.[47]

Of course there's more -- but maybe you think the benefits of science outweigh the miserable conditions of suffering. Hey, have a good one! Do you think science had nothing to do with making bombs and airplanes, right, alleviating suffering?

 

[paarsurrey]

Who Or What Is Israel?

The first and the foremost is that one is righteous, if not, then one's claim to belong to Israel is racial and false, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Who Or What Is Israel?

The first and the foremost is that one is righteous, if not, then one's claim to belong to Israel is racial and false, right?

Regards

The word Israel has a number of correct meanings, and you have to depend on context to know which meaning is being used.
It can refer to:
1. The man Jacob who was renamed Israel
2. The People of Israel, a collection of twelve tribes and those adopted in via conversion, aka the Jews=Israelites=Hebrews
3. The United Kingdom of Israel formed by Saul, and passed to David and then Solomon
4. The Northern Kingdom of Israel during the two state period that had its capital in Samaria
5. The Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), aka the territory
6. The modern democratic state of Israel

When a Jew claims to be a part of the People of Israel, it is not racial. (Race does not exist.) Nor is it religious. Rather it has to do with being a tribal people (12 tribes). One is a member of the people, the Jews=Israelites=Hebrews, either by being born of a Jewish mom, or (on rare occasions) adopted into the People via a formal conversion.

Jews=Israelites=Hebrews can be either religious or not religious.

 

[2ndpillar]

One is a member of the people, the Jews=Israelites=Hebrews, either by being born of a Jewish mom, or (on rare occasions) adopted into the People via a formal conversion.

A Jew is considered of Judah, or in a full sense, the house of Judah. and not referenced to Tamar, Judah's daughter in law, especially when the term Judah, as in the term, the house of Judah, had not come into being until during the era of David and Solomon, when Judah (house of Judah) was separated from Ephraim (the house of Israel). Ephraim, who was passed the name of Israel, by his father, Joseph/Israel, represented the house of Israel (10 northern tribes) did not consider himself a son of Tamar, nor of Judah. In the end, Israel will be a combination of the house of Judah (Judah) and the house of Israel (Ephraim) (Ez 37), to be located on the land given to Jacob/Israel. The new "king" of Ez 37, will be called David, who was of Judah, and not of called out because of Tamar. The land of Isreal, was described as the land given to Jacob/Israel. The land given to Judah was Judea, just a part of the land given to Jacob/Israel. Per the book of Obadiah, the land of Jacob/Israel, will be increased past the original boundaries.