Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

A Jew is considered of Judah,

Jew does not refer to the tribe of Judah, but rather to the southern Kingdom of Judah, which included mostly Benjamin, Judah, and Levi, but which also had a considerable minority of refugees from the northern Kingdom of Israel, meaning that all 12 tribes existed within the Kingdom of Judah. As you know, once captive in Babylon, they were ALL called JEWS regardless of their tribe. For example:

"In the fortress of Susa there was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin named Mordecai." Esther 2:5

 

[2ndpillar]

Jew does not refer to the tribe of Judah, but rather to the southern Kingdom of Judah, which included mostly Benjamin, Judah, and Levi, but which also had a considerable minority of refugees from the northern Kingdom of Israel, meaning that all 12 tribes existed within the Kingdom of Judah. As you know, once captive in Babylon, they were ALL called JEWS regardless of their tribe. For example:

"In the fortress of Susa there was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin named Mordecai." Esther 2:5

"Once captive in Babylon", both Ephraim/Israel in the form of the 10 northern tribes, as well as Judah (Benjamin, Judah, and Levi), were sold into captivity, the source of parenting could be a problem apart from the mother. As soon as Ephraim (Israel) and Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) were separated by means of captivity of both, Judah was referred to as Jewish. Not before that time. Before the separation of Judah from Ephraim/Israel, a son of Benjamin was considered a son of Benjamin. There was no split between the house of Judah and the house of Israel before the reign of David, and therefore no notion of a Jew. There was only the house of Israel. The story of Mordecai happened after the captivity of Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). The combining of Judah and Ephraim/Israel, of Ezekiel 36 & 37, has not happened, nor have they been located on the land given to Jacob under the rulership of David (Ez 37:24). Your "minority of refugees" (including all of the 10 northern tribes) within Judah, is not documented in the Scripture. And as far as "Scripture" goes, their (Israels) "gathering" out of the "nations" (Ez 36:24) whereas they are given a new heart and a new spirit, and saved from all their uncleanliness, and the "desolate land" will "become like the garden of Eden", has not happened. Israel/Joseph was given Samaria, and the Samarians were denigrated by the Jews because the Jews called them idolators, but the same judgment (Hosea 5) was given to Judah as given to the house of Israel, upon their destruction by Babylon. Samaria was given to Joseph, who inherited the name of Israel. According to Hosea 6, both Judah and Israel will suffer destruction as with by a lion and will not be "healed" until after two days (2000 years) in the 3rd day. Israel nor has Judah been healed, nor have they been reunited (Ezekiel 36), on the land given to Jacob/Israel, "forever" (Ezekiel 37:26-28) with "peace". Looking at the state of Israel today, I see little peace, nor do I see all the land given to Jacob being occupied by the "Jews". Nor do I see an increased area as defined by Obadiah. That is because the "nations" of Daniel 2 have not all be crushed all together at "the same time" (Daniel 2:35), nor does the "King" rule from Jerusalem, and the "nations"/Gentiles worship the "king" ever year at the time of the feast of Booths. (Zechariah 14).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As soon as Ephraim (Israel) and Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) were separated by means of captivity of both, Judah was referred to as Jewish.

You aren't a very good listener. Please go back and read my text again.

 

[2ndpillar]

You aren't a very good listener. Please go back and read my text again.

I know exactly what you wrote.
Your reference to the term "Jew", with respect to the time of Esther, is after the captivity of Judah, and after the separation of Judah from Israel. You have proved nothing, other that things changed after the reign of King David. Ruth 4:18-20 doesn't refer to David as the son of Tamar, it refers to David as the son of Judah by way of Perez. No women were mentioned in that lineage. Are you a "Christian" and inserting Tamar due to your love of Matthew 1 because he mentioned the wife of Judah? Joseph/Israel was not married to a Jew, he was married to an Egyptian. Genesis 46:20 Now to Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath, the daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, bore to him. Ephraim, who was passed on the name of Israel, and was not born to a Jew. As for "Ruth", who was a Moabite, and not a Jew, nor considered a Jew at the time she bore Obad. It was Boaz, the father who was considered of Judah, the son of Jacob/Israel. The deportation to Babylon happened considerably later. when you find your insertion of the term "Jew". Leaning on your "scribes" (Jeremiah 8:8)/teachers, other than on "Scripture", is probably not the best path. The "fat" "shepherds of Israel", teachers, are going to be the first to be "destroyed" (Ezekiel 34:2 &16), after I first gather the people out from the countries onto their own land (Ez 34:13).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know exactly what you wrote.
Your reference to the term "Jew", with respect to the time of Esther, is after the captivity of Judah, a

Of course, because THAT is when the term Jew began to be used, and it referred to people of all 12 tribes that came from the Kingdom of Judah.

 

[Elihoenai]

Nope. and Nope.

Given that you have said you and none of your family members are Jewish Freemason, what is the basis for your belief that the Freemason Secret Society is all about Harmless Fun?

I dined at a Liberal Jewish Restaurant a few months ago and got into a conversation about Religion where Freemasonry was brought up. The person that I spoke with understood Freemasonry to be Dark. I agreed with the Liberal Jew that yes most certainly Freemasonry is Dark. Freemasonry/Knights Templar is all about Cultivating Dark Powers. Freemasonry is the Dark Side of Elohim/God.

At the moment not able to find any Jewish sources speaking against Freemasonry on the Internet. Only seeing sources on the Internet stating Judaism is compatible with Freemasonry:


Freemasonry & Judaism are compatible

By Rt. Wor. Bro. Rabbi Dr Raymond Apple, AO RFD, Past Deputy Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of New South Wales & the Australian Capital Territory.


"...Especially in English-speaking countries, the movement has always had a high proportion of eminent Jewish members, including leading rabbis. Among present day Australian rabbis, high masonic office is held by Rabbi Shalom Coleman of Perth, Rabbi Chaim Gutnick of Melbourne and myself in Sydney. Other rabbis and ministers are past masters of their lodges.

All this clearly indicates that Jews have not found freemasonry to be incompatible with their Judaism. Why Jewish masons feel at home with the movement includes the requirement that a mason must believe in God, and the fact that the Bible occupies a place of honour in the lodge room...."

OzTorah » Blog Archive » Freemasonry & Judaism are compatible

Women Freemasons In London (1939)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Given that you have said you and none of your family members are Jewish Freemason, what is the basis for your belief that the Freemason Secret Society is all about Harmless Fun?

The lack of evidence that it is anything nefarious.

 

[2ndpillar]

Of course, because THAT is when the term Jew began to be used, and it referred to people of all 12 tribes that came from the Kingdom of Judah.

The "house of Judah" is comprised of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and the "house of Israel", the 10 northern tribes, described as Ephraim/Joseph (Ez 37), remains separate as entities. The "house of Judah", "Judah", was formed when David's son took the 10 northern tribes from David and slept with his concubines. The "house of Israel"/Ephraim (Ezekiel 37) remains a separate entity to this day. There is no unified "house of Israel" (12 tribes) as described as a future event in Ezekiel 37:16-17). There is no sanctified Levites to make acceptable sacrifices for "Judah" to the LORD (Malachi 3), although there are efforts to produce the instruments and red heifers. The surviving "nations"/Gentiles do not make yearly feast of Booths excursion to Jerusalem to worship the king, for the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), which has not occurred, and the "nations"/Gentiles" remain unjudged (Joel 3:1-2), and "Judah" and "Jerusalem" remain not fully "restored", for the "nations" to come upon them in the "valley of Jehoshaphat/judgment" (Joel 3:2). Close, but no cubie doll. The "people of all 12 tribes" do not come from the "Kingdom of Judah".

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The "house of Judah" is comprised of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and the "house of Israel", the 10 northern tribes, described as Ephraim/Joseph (Ez 37), remains separate as entities. The "house of Judah", "Judah", was formed when David's son took the 10 northern tribes from David and slept with his concubines. The "house of Israel"/Ephraim (Ezekiel 37) remains a separate entity to this day. There is no unified "house of Israel" (12 tribes) as described as a future event in Ezekiel 37:16-17). There is no sanctified Levites to make acceptable sacrifices for "Judah" to the LORD (Malachi 3), although there are efforts to produce the instruments and red heifers. The surviving "nations"/Gentiles do not make yearly feast of Booths excursion to Jerusalem to worship the king, for the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), which has not occurred, and the "nations"/Gentiles" remain unjudged (Joel 3:1-2), and "Judah" and "Jerusalem" remain not fully "restored", for the "nations" to come upon them in the "valley of Jehoshaphat/judgment" (Joel 3:2). Close, but no cubie doll. The "people of all 12 tribes" do not come from the "Kingdom of Judah".

"Jew" does not refer to the house of Judah either. Again, it refers to those from the KINGDOM of Judah. And yes, we DO know that refugees from the north fled south to Judah.

Israelite Refugees Found High Office in Kingdom of Judah, Seals Found in Jerusalem Show​

Israelite refugees found high office in Kingdom of Judah, seals found in Jerusalem show

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[2ndpillar]

"Jew" does not refer to the house of Judah either. Again, it refers to those from the KINGDOM of Judah. And yes, we DO know that refugees from the north fled south to Judah.

Israelite Refugees Found High Office in Kingdom of Judah, Seals Found in Jerusalem Show​

Israelite refugees found high office in Kingdom of Judah, seals found in Jerusalem show

***

www.haaretz.com

I am not sure where you are coming from. David had Solomon crowned king of Judah and Israel (1 King 1:35), which was after Absalom had taken Jerusalem (land given to Judah) and cast out David, separating Judah from Israel. At that time, Benjamin and Levi stayed with the tribe of Judah, and is recognized as now as the "house of Judah". One uses archeology to prove Scripture, not to create scripture. As for Judea, that was the land given to Judah. David's son, Absalom, threw David out of Jerusalem/Judah. The kingdom of David's son was short lived, and not referred to as the "kingdom of Judah". "The house of Judah", and the "house of Israel" were separated after Solomon died. The English term "Jew" comes from the word Yehudah/Judah, and originated around 1000 A.D. Mordecai was referred to as Yehudi (Jewish man) in the Masoretic text, a man of Judah, not as a "Jew". The earliest Masoretic text fragments were dated to approximately 700 A.D., and a complete version around 1100 A.D. As for your Talmud, writing of the scribes, one of two, they like the writings of the Muslims, where it depends on whether you are a Shia or a Sunni. If you are a Shia, they teach the original meaning of the Koran, although they declare it incomplete, and that you can kill anyone who doesn't believe in this supposed Muhammad guy and his pagan derived Allah, if you have the power to do so. As the Shia are based in Iran, and support the eradication of the Jews, you are now looking at a Zechariah 14 and Obadiah 1 moment, whereas all the neighbor nations will fall upon Jerusalem, and Judah will fight, at which time Israel/Ephraim, has not yet been gathered out of the nations (Ez 36:24). Israel, in the form of Ephraim, was born of an Egyptian, and not of a woman of Judah. David was king of the combined 12 tribes less the short period when he was thrown out of Jerusalem/Judah. Your "kingdoms of Judah"/house of Judah, is post Solomon, and comes to an end with respect to Ezekiel 36:24, when it is combined with Israel/Ephraim/Joseph (Ez 37:16-22) to be "one in My hand".

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am not sure where you are coming from.

I'm not bothering to continue reading your stuff. My points were very succinct and clear. If you are having problems understanding them, I suggest going back and reading my posts more slowly.

 

[2ndpillar]

I'm not bothering to continue reading your stuff. My points were very succinct and clear. If you are having problems understanding them, I suggest going back and reading my posts more slowly.

Your point was that Jews were considered Jews, if born of Jewish women, and you include the house of Israel/Ephraim into the house of Judah. Israel (Ephraim, son of Joseph) was born of an Egyptian woman, who at the time, Egypt was ruled by descendants of Crete, not ruled by descendants of Judah. The term "Jew" is 1000 AD English, referring to Judah, whereas Ephraim/Israel was born of a priestess of Egypt. You never read my posts in the first place, as reflected in your non answers.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Your point was that Jews were considered Jews, if born of Jewish women, and you include the house of Israel/Ephraim into the house of Judah.

Stop lying. The only person who brought up the house of Judah was you. I on the other hand brought up the KINGDOM of Judah.

 

[Elihoenai]

The lack of evidence that it is anything nefarious.​

John 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


Do you have any Evidence that Freemasonry is all about Harmless Fun? A Serial Killer doesn't Kill People in broad daylight so everybody can see and get caught, A Thief usually does their Stealing in the Dark to evade detection.

Masonic-Judeo is Really Knights Templar-Judeo. The Knights Templar are Roman/Roman Catholic Soldiers. Therefore, Freemasons and Jewish Masons is Really the Ancient Union of Rome and the Jewish Authorities working together to put the Real Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ to death.

Baphomet is the Idol that puts the Real Yeshua/Jesus to Death:

Baphomet

Baphomet is a deity which the Knights Templar were accused of worshipping[3] that subsequently became incorporated into various occult and Western esoteric traditions.[4] The name Baphomet appeared in trial transcripts for the Inquisition of the Knights Templar starting in 1307.[5][6] It first came into popular English usage in the 19th century during debate and speculation on the reasons for the suppression of the Templar order.[3][5] Baphomet is a symbol of balance in various occult and mystical traditions, the origin of which some occultists have attempted to link with the Gnostics and Templars,[4] although occasionally purported to be a deity or a demon.[3] Since 1856 the name Baphomet has been associated with the "Sabbatic Goat" image drawn by Éliphas Lévi,[7] composed of binary elements representing the "symbolization of the equilibrium of opposites":[1] half-human and half-animal, male and female, good and evil, etc.[2] Lévi's intention was to symbolize his concept of balance, with Baphomet representing the goal of perfect social order.

Baphomet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2ndpillar]

Stop lying. The only person who brought up the house of Judah was you. I on the other hand brought up the KINGDOM of Judah.

My reference in the last post was to the "house of Israel"/Ephraim/Israel, which you said was already combined with your "kingdom of Judah" which only existed after the reign of Solomon, and was only mentioned once in Scripture, versus the readily used "house of Judah", which is used many times. Before that time, you had only the whole house of Israel, except for the short period of time when David was thrown out of Jerusalem by his son. The house of Israel/Israel/Ephraim was "scattered" among the "nations" and has not been "gathered" out as of this time (Ezekiel 36). As for Israel, in the form of Ephraim, they were given the land of Samaria, and the religious of Samaria, marry mostly within their religion, and have the purest DNA as with respect to their Israeli heritage. That would track back to Ephraim, the son of Joseph, who was married to an Egyptian priestess. As of now, they only have two remains of the time period, which is insufficient to do a thorough analysis, except for reverting to an analysis on the existing peoples. The term "Jew" (people of Judah) is a clipped version of the Hebrew word for Judah. The "people of Judah" are separate from the people of Israel, "house of Israel", and will not be combined with Judah until the "bones of the whole house of Israel" are raised from their grave (Ez 37:9-13).

 

[Elihoenai]

Genesis 32:30

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Deuteronomy 34:10

10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,


The Real Israel See Elohim/God Face to Face. Do you See Elohim/God Face to Face? If yes, what does it mean to See Elohim/God Face to Face?

 

[Elihoenai]

I want to back up @dybmh.

NOT genetics.
NOT religion

There are two ways to be a part of the People of Israel.
1. If your mom is a Jew. So for example, if your father is a Jew, and your mother is not, you are not a Jew. So, obviously, genetics doesn't crack it.

2. If you are adopted into the People via a formal conversion to Judaism. IOW conversion is more than a religious thing, it is being adopted into the People. Ruth was born a Moabite, but died a Jew.

Please do make a new file folder in your mind. Label it "Tribal People," and place within it Lakota, Zulu, Jews... The easiest way to be a Lakota is to be born Lakota. However, on very rare occasions, an outsider will be adopted into the Lakota tribe. The Lakota have a traditional religion. Some Lakota follow this religion. Some do not. Following the religion is not necessary to being part of the tribe. Now go back, and in place of Lakota, use the word Jews.

That's Certainly Not the teaching of the Torah. You cannot be Israel Without Practising the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel.

Do you have any Holy Scriptures to Verify your Definition of Israel?

 

[2ndpillar]

That's Certainly Not the teaching of the Torah. You cannot be Israel Without Practising the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel.

Do you have any Holy Scriptures to Verify your Definition of Israel?

The name "Israel" has different aspects, but in the present era, that would be the children of Ephraim, who was past the title of Israel from his father Joseph, who was passed the title from Jacob. And certainly, in this era, being a child of Judah would not cut the butter, unless you revert to the era of Jacob, before Solomon's death, when Judah was not separated from Ephraim/Israel. As for the coming kingdom, whereas David will be king over the combined Ephraim/Joseph and Judah, on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37), whereas the Levites will be refined by fire (Malachi 3:3-4), and "the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD", well that day is just behind the door. As for Judah having the vessels for sacrifice (Zech 14:21), and red heifers stored and ready, they do not possess all of Jerusalem, and are still being murdered in their homes, unlike the "covenant of peace" they will have after they are reunited and ruled under king David (Ezekiel 37:26-28) under the label of sanctified "Israel".

 

[Bthoth]

That's Certainly Not the teaching of the Torah. You cannot be Israel Without Practising the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel.

Careful...... Some of the wannabe, think that israel is a birth right and has nothing to do with keeping the commandments (personal responsibility)

Do you have any Holy Scriptures to Verify your Definition of Israel?

There are a bunch of line items that can be used to sustain the tangents.

 

[Elihoenai]

The name "Israel" has different aspects, but in the present era, that would be the children of Ephraim, who was past the title of Israel from his father Joseph, who was passed the title from Jacob. And certainly, in this era, being a child of Judah would not cut the butter, unless you revert to the era of Jacob, before Solomon's death, when Judah was not separated from Ephraim/Israel. As for the coming kingdom, whereas David will be king over the combined Ephraim/Joseph and Judah, on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37), whereas the Levites will be refined by fire (Malachi 3:3-4), and "the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD", well that day is just behind the door. As for Judah having the vessels for sacrifice (Zech 14:21), and red heifers stored and ready, they do not possess all of Jerusalem, and are still being murdered in their homes, unlike the "covenant of peace" they will have after they are reunited and ruled under king David (Ezekiel 37:26-28) under the label of sanctified "Israel".

You cannot be Israel Without practising the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel in any Era. Elohim/God Defines Who or What Israel is by the Religion of Israel.