Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

A Jew, etymology and originally, is from the tribe of Judah

Not the tribe of Judah, the KINGDOM of Judah, made up of many tribes. Notice that Mordechai was of the tribe of Benjamin, but is called a Jew:

Esther 2:5 Now there was in the citadel of Susa a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, named Mordecai son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish,

 

[DNB]

The practitioners of Judaism on this thread are Affirming "Once a Jew, Always a Jew" no matter what Crimes the Jew Commits. This teaching must be from the Talmud and Not in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Yes, I would agree, as far as the few posts that I have read - the Talmud or other extra-biblical literature (Midrash) is dictating their decisions

 

[DNB]

Not the tribe of Judah, the KINGDOM of Judah, made up of many tribes. Notice that Mordechai was of the tribe of Benjamin, but is called a Jew:

Esther 2:5 Now there was in the citadel of Susa a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, named Mordecai son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish,

It became the Kingdom of Judah after the separation between north and south, because it was the dominant tribe out of the two remaining tribes (Benjamin & Judah, and some defectors from the north). And this was just as much as the northern kingdom was often referred to as Israel or Ephraim in order to sum up all tribes within the kingdom, as a whole.

My point about referring to the etymology of the word is that it is originally derived from the tribe of Judah, who came from Jacob, who ultimately came from Abraham - Israel is a theocracy; it is entirely God-chosen, God-superintended, God-legislated, God-feared, and God-wrathful - atheists are not Jews as far as God is concerned, no matter who there father or mother is.

Nadab and Abihu were destroyed for offering strange fire on the altar, and Uzzah for attempting to mishandle the Ark of the Covenant - their legacy will not live on in the Kingdom of God where only the chosen ones are allowed.

 

[dybmh]

The practitioners of Judaism on this thread are Affirming "Once a Jew, Always a Jew" no matter what Crimes the Jew Commits. This teaching must be from the Talmud and Not in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Must? Aren't you a gnostic? The first rule of gnosticism: You don't know what you don't know. Your ignorance is showing.

Why in the world would you apply this level of certainty to Jewish law? You clearly don't know it. And. AND. It's so easy to check.

Exodus 12:24​

​

ושמרתם את־הדבר הזה לחק־לך ולבניך עד־עולם׃​

​

And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons forever.​

​

Leviticus 7:34​

​

אשר צוה יהוה לתת להם ביום משחו אתם מאת בני ישראל חקת עולם לדרתם׃​

​

Which the Lord commanded to be given to them by the people of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute forever throughout their generations.​

​

Levviticus 23:31​

​

כל־מלאכה לא תעשו חקת עולם לדרתיכם בכל משבתיכם׃​

You shall do no kind of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.​

​

Yes, I would agree, as far as the few posts that I have read - the Talmud or other extra-biblical literature (Midrash) is dictating their decisions

Then you would also be 100% wrong perr scripture. Hopefully you and the Gnostic with KNOW better next time.

 

[DNB]

Must? Aren't you a gnostic? The first rule of gnosticism: You don't know what you don't know. Your ignorance is showing.

Why in the world would you apply this level of certainty to Jewish law? You clearly don't know it. And. AND. It's so easy to check.

Exodus 12:24​

​

ושמרתם את־הדבר הזה לחק־לך ולבניך עד־עולם׃​

​

And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons forever.​

​

Leviticus 7:34​

​

אשר צוה יהוה לתת להם ביום משחו אתם מאת בני ישראל חקת עולם לדרתם׃​

​

Which the Lord commanded to be given to them by the people of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute forever throughout their generations.​

​

Levviticus 23:31​

​

כל־מלאכה לא תעשו חקת עולם לדרתיכם בכל משבתיכם׃​

You shall do no kind of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.​

​

Then you would also be 100% wrong perr scripture. Hopefully you and the Gnostic with KNOW better next time.

The passages that you cited are correct - but the blasphemer, adulterer, murderer and idolater will be eradicated from the chosen people of God permanently, irrespective of their lineage, priesthood or circumcision.

 

[The Hammer]

The passages that you cited are correct - but the blasphemer, adulterer, murderer and idolater will be eradicated from the chosen people of God permanently, irrespective of their lineage, priesthood or circumcision.

I look forward gladly to death.

 

[dybmh]

The passages that you cited are correct - but the blasphemer, adulterer, murderer and idolater will be eradicated from the chosen people of God permanently, irrespective of their lineage, priesthood or circumcision.

Says who? Are you God all of a sudden?

 

[dybmh]

@DNB

​

Proverbs​

​

30:5​

כל־אמרת אלוה צרופה מגן הוא לחסים בו׃​

Every word of God is proven; he is a shield to those who put their trust in him.​

​

30:6​

אל־תוסף על־דבריו פן־יוכיח בך ונכזבת׃​

Do not add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

​

Revelation 21:8

​

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.​

​

The passages that you cited are correct - but the blasphemer, adulterer, murderer and idolater will be eradicated from the chosen people of God permanently, irrespective of their lineage, priesthood or circumcision.

Do not add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.

all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

 

[DNB]

Says who? Are you God all of a sudden?

What happened to Nadab & Abihu, Uzzah, Korah and his clan, King Manasseh or Ahab - some kings were not even buried with their fore fathers as was the practice. These men were rejected from the faith, they will not be part of the chosen nation at the resurrection.

 

[DNB]

@DNB

​

Proverbs​

​

30:5​

כל־אמרת אלוה צרופה מגן הוא לחסים בו׃​

Every word of God is proven; he is a shield to those who put their trust in him.​

​

30:6​

אל־תוסף על־דבריו פן־יוכיח בך ונכזבת׃​

Do not add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.​

​

Revelation 21:8

​

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.​

​

Do not add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.

all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

You have got to be joking - you are accusing me of being a liar because I believe that the Jewish blasphemers will have their names taken out of the Book of Life?
Is your Judaism similar to that of Christian Reformed Theology - once saved, always saved?
God will not be mocked!

 

[dybmh]

What happened to Nadab & Abihu

Good grief. Do you know how to look these things up?

ויקרא משה אל־מישאל ואל אלצפן בני עזיאל דד אהרן ויאמר אלהם קרבו שאו את־אחיכם מאת פני־הקדש אל־מחוץ למחנה׃​

​

And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, Come near, carry your brothers from before the sanctuary out of the camp.​

They're still in the House of Jacob ( Israel ).

but the blasphemer, adulterer, murderer and idolater will be eradicated from the chosen people of God permanently, irrespective of their lineage, priesthood or circumcision.

No. They are still in the House of Jacob. They just happen to deceased. See above. They are still their brothers.

 

[dybmh]

You have got to be joking - you are accusing me of being a liar because I believe that the Jewish blasphemers will have their names taken out of the Book of Life?

You're adding to scripture. That's a no-no.

Is your Judaism similar to that of Christian Reformed Theology - once saved, always saved?

No. It's not MY Judiasm, I brought you scripture. You agreed it was correct. And now you are denying it and acting like God.

God will not be mocked!

God knows what to do, you clearly don't.

 

[Elihoenai]

You can believe any wrongheaded notions you want. The thing is, your opinion on the subject is worth nothing. The only thing that matters is halakah, Jewish law.

Yes, I have gathered that practitioners of Judaism don't care and place no value on what others think about their Religion. It's a Requirement of True Religionist to be Dogmatic.

Jewish scriptures include the Tanakh (Torah, Prophets, Writing), the Oral Torah (Talmud) and the writings of the sages. Jews are not sola scriptura.

Therefore, you are confirming that the teaching of "Once a Jew, Always a Jew" is from the Talmud and Not in the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[Elihoenai]

The Karaites would not agree.

This appears to be a good Wikipedia article on the Karaites.


Karaite Judaism

Karaite Judaism (/ˈkɛərə.aɪt/) or Karaism (/ˈkɛərə.ɪzəm/, sometimes spelt Karaitism (/ˈkɛərə.ɪtɪzəm/; Hebrew: יהדות קראית Yahadut Qara'it); also spelt Qaraite Judaism, Qaraism or Qaraitism)[a] is a Jewish religious movement characterized by the recognition of the written Tanakh alone as its supreme authority in halakha (Jewish religious law) and theology.[11] Karaites believe that all of the divine commandments which were handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah without any additional Oral Law or explanation. Unlike mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which regards the Oral Torah, codified in the Talmud and subsequent works, as authoritative interpretations of the Torah, Karaite Jews do not treat the written collections of the oral tradition in the Midrash or the Talmud as binding.

Karaite Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, I have gathered that practitioners of Judaism don't care and place no value on what others think about their Religion. It's a Requirement of True Religionist to be Dogmatic.







Therefore, you are confirming that the teaching of "Once a Jew, Always a Jew" is from the Talmud and Not in the Hebrew Scriptures.

It really has nothing to do with dogmatism. I'm actually fine with non-Jews having their own religions. No one NEEDS to become a Jew.

I'm simply pointing out that every group has the right to define itself. Outsiders don't get to make those determinations.

I am saying that the "Once a Jew, always a Jew" comes from the totality of Halakah. It is a second point to remind you that Jews are not sola scriptura, and it is a huge mistake for you to assume we think like Protestants. There is no Torah without Oral Torah.

 

[Elihoenai]

Then I would expect you to oppose anyone attempting to subvert the will of The Lord, The Most High, by claiming to be a member of The House of Jacob ( Israel ) without being born from a Jewish womb, or converting according to Jewish law. Pretending to be "Israel" and stealing Jewish symbols and making them into things they are not in order to con Jewish people into converting into Christianity is encouraging assimilation.

Christians Being Spiritual Israel is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible. A Real Christian Practices and Teaches Spiritual Israel. It's one thing for Christians to claim they are Spiritual Israel and another matter entirely of actually being a Christian member of Spiritual Israel.

Christians that make efforts to Convert Jewish people to Christianity are being Serious about their Religion. I Support Real Serious Christians and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Provided that Ultra-Orthodox Jews are Devoted to Elohim/God they have nothing to worry about. Any Jew that Converts to Christianity has been Ordained by Elohim/God.



Supersessionism

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology,[1] is a Christian theological doctrine which describes the theological conviction that the Christian Church has superseded the nation of Israel assuming their role as God's covenanted people,[2] thus asserting that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ has superseded or replaced the Mosaic covenant exclusive to Jews. Supersessionist theology also holds that the universal Christian Church has replaced ancient Israel as God's true Israel and that Christians (including gentiles) have replaced the biological bloodline of ancient Israelites as the people of God.

Supersessionism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You Must Practice the Law of Moses to become a Christian Member of Spiritual Israel. In Christendom they Totally Reject this teaching concerning the Law of Moses.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology,[1] is a Christian theological doctrine which describes the theological conviction that the Christian Church has superseded the nation of Israel assuming their role as God's covenanted people,[2] thus asserting that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ has superseded or replaced the Mosaic covenant exclusive to Jews. Supersessionist theology also holds that the universal Christian Church has replaced ancient Israel as God's true Israel and that Christians (including gentiles) have replaced the biological bloodline of ancient Israelites as the people of God.

Most Christian denominations repudiated Supersessionism after WW2 when they saw how it contributed to the holocaust. Not all, but they're getting there.

 

[Elihoenai]

Must? Aren't you a gnostic? The first rule of gnosticism: You don't know what you don't know. Your ignorance is showing.

Why in the world would you apply this level of certainty to Jewish law? You clearly don't know it. And. AND. It's so easy to check.

Exodus 12:24​

​

ושמרתם את־הדבר הזה לחק־לך ולבניך עד־עולם׃​

​

And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons forever.​

​

Leviticus 7:34​

​

אשר צוה יהוה לתת להם ביום משחו אתם מאת בני ישראל חקת עולם לדרתם׃​

​

Which the Lord commanded to be given to them by the people of Israel, in the day that he anointed them, by a statute forever throughout their generations.​

​

Levviticus 23:31​

​

כל־מלאכה לא תעשו חקת עולם לדרתיכם בכל משבתיכם׃​

You shall do no kind of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.​

​

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.


The Penalty for Israelite Rebellion Against the Law of Moses is Death, therefore, an Atheist or Apostate does Not Exist in Israel. This is the teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.


The Penalty for Israelite Rebellion Against the Law of Moses is Death, therefore, an Atheist or Apostate does Not Exist in Israel. This is the teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures.

What an odd thing to say. It has no relationship to supersessionism.

 

[dybmh]

Christians Being Spiritual Israel is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible. A Real Christian Practices and Teaches Spiritual Israel. It's one thing for Christians to claim they are Spiritual Israel and another matter entirely of actually being a Christian member of Spiritual Israel.

Christians that make efforts to Convert Jewish people to Christianity are being Serious about their Religion. I Support Real Serious Christians and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Provided that Ultra-Orthodox Jews are Devoted to Elohim/God they have nothing to worry about. Any Jew that Converts to Christianity has been Ordained by Elohim/God.

You wrote: "Christians Being Spiritual Israel is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible"

1) If you word-of-God scripture you would have posted it already
2) If there is a "teaching" about IT, that is encouaging cheating and theft

You wrote: "Any Jew that Converts to Christianity has been Ordained by Elohim/God."

Show me scripture that says that. There is no "Elohim" in Christian scripture.

Supersessionism

Supersessionism, also called replacement theology or fulfillment theology,[1] is a Christian theological doctrine which describes the theological conviction that the Christian Church has superseded the nation of Israel assuming their role as God's covenanted people,[2] thus asserting that the New Covenant through Jesus Christ has superseded or replaced the Mosaic covenant exclusive to Jews. Supersessionist theology also holds that the universal Christian Church has replaced ancient Israel as God's true Israel and that Christians (including gentiles) have replaced the biological bloodline of ancient Israelites as the people of God.

" ... a Chrstian Theological Doctrine ... " <--- Man made doctrine. Not the word-of-God. Wishful thinking. Jealousy. Theft. Corruption.

You Must Practice the Law of Moses to become a Christian Member of Spiritual Israel. In Christendom they Totally Reject this teaching concerning the Law of Moses.

MUST? Again. You are a gnostic? Gnostic means "Knower". You don't know what you don't know. The word "Must" is always false for a gnostic.

Your opinion = 0% credibility.