why ask, aren't you afraid for your

[-Peacemaker-]

show me where.

let me check my Bible first :jester3::danana::biglaugh:

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I think Christianity is perverted because it teaches the eternal torture of non-Christians. Should I see if I can make it illegal to be a Christian?

To be more exact, it teaches that those who REJECT Jesus will not be forgiven for their sins meaning they have to face judgement. Yes, judgement that is taught in the Bible is being thrown in a lake of fire

 

[waitasec]

let me check my Bible first :jester3::danana::biglaugh:

i was hoping you would...

 

[waitasec]

To be more exact, it teaches that those who REJECT Jesus will not be forgiven for their sins meaning they have to face judgement. Yes, judgement that is taught in the Bible is being thrown in a lake of fire

so what does that have to do with you exactly?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

so what does that have to do with you exactly?

It means that if that doctrine is correct then I need to find the weak spots in my personal character and repent

 

[waitasec]

It means that if that doctrine is correct then I need to find the weak spots in my personal character and repent

but you don't reject christ.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

but you don't reject christ.

1 John 3:9

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

If there's any substance to my confession of faith I'm going to demonstrate it through my actions

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I truly believe any doctrine that teaches eternal torture is perverted in the worst sense anything can be.

I think the only thing more perverted could be a being that being able to stop the suffering of this other beings that begg for it to stop, doesn´t do it.

How about a world where no one is actually accountable for their sins? You see nothing perverted about that? Where's the justice in such a world? I can't think of a more screwed up universe than a place where no one is accountable for the evil that they're guilty of. To no surprise, the kind of world that many people like to believe in is one where no one will actually punish them for their evil deeds. "God's love and mercy is greater than his desire for justice" such people like to say. Yeah, tell that to all the people that were caught in the path of the wickedness of others.

 

[waitasec]

1 John 3:9

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

If there's any substance to my confession of faith I'm going to demonstrate it through my actions

you said...

Hypothetically speaking of course, would it right to ask people to adapt to a perversion? Could I really appeal to the "golden rule" if people refused?

then all you should worry about is you

btw,
still waiting for you to show where jesus said believers are to control the lives of unbelievers

 

[waitasec]

How about a world where no one is actually accountable for their sins?

which is exactly what god intended since he created adam with out the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

you said...


then all you should worry about is you

btw,
still waiting for you to show where jesus said believers are to control the lives of unbelievers

I figured the emoticons would give the fact away that I was kidding from the start when I said "yes" to the question about controlling lives. I thought the answer to that question was so bloody obvious that you would assume I was kidding when I said "yes" even after the first time.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

which is exactly what god intended since he created adam with out the knowledge of good and evil.

Actually the God of the Bible intended a world where there was no disobedience at all.

 

[waitasec]

I figured the emoticons would give the fact away that I was kidding from the start when I said "yes" to the question about controlling lives. I thought the answer to that question was so bloody obvious that you would assume I was kidding when I said "yes" even after the first time.

ok. i was looking for a straight answer. you may think this is funny, but i don't.
sorry to be such a scrooge.

so why do you compare your quest for truth to other peoples quest for truth?

 

[Alceste]

To be more exact, it teaches that those who REJECT Jesus will not be forgiven for their sins meaning they have to face judgement. Yes, judgement that is taught in the Bible is being thrown in a lake of fire

Case in point, clearly you are among the ranks of Christians who are perfectly OK with the idea of hell, as long as it's happening to other people. That right there is everything I need to know about your religion.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Case in point, clearly you are among the ranks of Christians who are perfectly OK with the idea of hell, as long as it's happening to other people. That right there is everything I need to know about your religion.

Then you obviously have no idea that I've literally prayed specifically and individually for just about every person I've talked with on this forum. Among my prayers is that God would soften people's hearts and bear patiently with their failings, including my own failings. If I come off as cold in the way I talk about judgement it's because after a certain point I have to try to detach myself from the concept because it can be too difficult to bear emotionally

 

[-Peacemaker-]

ok. i was looking for a straight answer. you may think this is funny, but i don't.
sorry to be such a scrooge.

so why do you compare your quest for truth to other peoples quest for truth?

Here's what I see in most people's quest for truth around here, or more correct, what I don't see. I usually don't see even an ounce of humility in the process. People accept or reject truth based on whether or not they can wrap their little finite minds around it. Almost never do I hear someone say, "Some of the ways of God make me scratch my head a little bit but I'm not going to lean on my own understanding. I'm going to trust that he is good regardless of whether or not it makes total sense to me." On the contrary in fact, most people here reject EVERYTHING that they can't wrap their little minds around. If they do accept something as "truth" it because it "makes sense to them". As soon as it stops making sense, they move to something that does.

 

[Alceste]

Then you obviously have no idea that I've literally prayed specifically and individually for just about every person I've talked with on this forum. Among my prayers is that God would soften people's hearts and bear patiently with their failings, including my own failings. If I come off as cold in the way I talk about judgement it's because after a certain point I have to try to detach myself from the concept because it can be too difficult to bear emotionally

Please, don't weary yourself praying for me. My heart is already soft. Much too soft for me to ever become a Christian. The concept of torturing outsiders for all eternity would never allow me any spiritual satisfaction or peace, and it would never be possible for me to love a cruel God who would needlessly hurt billions of people arbitrarily.

 

[Sir Doom]

Here's what I see in most people's quest for truth around here, or more correct, what I don't see. I usually don't see even an ounce of humility in the process. People accept or reject truth based on whether or not they can wrap their little finite minds around it. Almost never do I hear someone say, "Some of the ways of God make me scratch my head a little bit but I'm not going to lean on my own understanding. I'm going to trust that he is good regardless of whether or not it makes total sense to me." On the contrary in fact, most people here reject EVERYTHING that they can't wrap their little minds around. If they do accept something as "truth" it because it "makes sense to them". As soon as it stops making sense, they move to something that does.

Makes sense to me... Is there a better way to do things? I'd love to replace my current process (as you describe perfectly here) in favor of a more sensible solution. Do you have one?

 

[waitasec]

Here's what I see in most people's quest for truth around here, or more correct, what I don't see. I usually don't see even an ounce of humility in the process. People accept or reject truth based on whether or not they can wrap their little finite minds around it.

let me ask you this.
do you take a car sales mans word for it? why would anyone in their right mind just take your word for it if they do not know one iota about you?
don't you think you are expecting a little too much, especially if the setting is a debating setting?

Almost never do I hear someone say, "Some of the ways of God make me scratch my head a little bit but I'm not going to lean on my own understanding.I'm going to trust that he is good regardless of whether or not it makes total sense to me." On the contrary in fact, most people here reject EVERYTHING that they can't wrap their little minds around.

looks like you are taking this personally...
maybe they are not rejecting god, but your version of god?

If they do accept something as "truth" it because it "makes sense to them". As soon as it stops making sense, they move to something that does.

don't you do the same?


so what is the point in comparing your quest for truth with other people?

 

[Alceste]

Here's what I see in most people's quest for truth around here, or more correct, what I don't see. I usually don't see even an ounce of humility in the process. People accept or reject truth based on whether or not they can wrap their little finite minds around it. Almost never do I hear someone say, "Some of the ways of God make me scratch my head a little bit but I'm not going to lean on my own understanding. I'm going to trust that he is good regardless of whether or not it makes total sense to me." On the contrary in fact, most people here reject EVERYTHING that they can't wrap their little minds around. If they do accept something as "truth" it because it "makes sense to them". As soon as it stops making sense, they move to something that does.

It isn't that the doctrine of hell "doesn't make sense". It's that the doctrine of hell makes perfect sense, as a projection of the darkest innate yearnings of human (not divine) nature. At some fundamental level of our subconscious, we hate and fear the "other" - the outsider, the misfit, the rebel. Part of us longs to see other people suffer. This is why we have enthusiastic torturers in every culture, regardless of religion or political affiliation. This is why public hangings and witch trials used to draw such a crowd. This dark and foetid pit of evil in our own minds is obviously the very same part that concocted the sick fantasy of hell, where everybody who is not in our "tribe" will be tortured forever with no risk of disappointing us via the liberation of death.

It makes perfect sense to me. If it doesn't make any sense to you, it's because you are trying to believe God is good and trying to believe hell is real at the same time. Of course that is never going to make sense to you, unless you are sick in the head.

I get frustrated by Christians confronting the obvious evils of their own religion and collapsing into fits of "Oh, I just could never begin to understand the mind of God". That's such a cop-out. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, wouldn't you say? Likewise, the doctrine of hell stinks to high heaven of arbitrary, excessive cruelty. Fortunately, you don't have to believe in it.