Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

[Augustus]

The world was not "global" in the way it is now .. you are giving a false impression, by using terms
like "worldwide"..

This is a rather pedantic quibble that avoids addressing the logistics of how this eradication actually happened.

It changes nothing of substance if we replace worldwide with “in significant parts of Asia, Africa and Europe including those outside their jurisdiction”.

The Christian religion was strictly controlled in the past.
It was illegal to hold beliefs other than Trinitarian.

It was strictly controlled at some times in some jurisdictions, not at all times in all jurisdictions.

Things might have been illegal in some jurisdictions, but not in all jurisdictions.

Claiming that this had no effect on what documents survived or were lost is unbelievable.

I didn’t say that, important orthodox texts with institutional backing had the best chance of survival.

I said systemic destruction of popular texts is not the reason they no longer exist.

In the case of the history of Roman Christianity, it is not hard to see that that is exactly what DID happen

There is a big difference between a desire to do something and the ability to do it in reality.

Also doesn’t explain why this would have any impact on non-Roman Christians.

Care to explain the logistics of these eradications yet?

I don't really know what we are arguing about here .. it is too vague.
How come we have Origen's works in their entirety in Latin,
but not His original works in Greek?
Is it just a coincidernce that all his original works were ordered tp be destroyed by a Roman Emperor

Yet we still have the texts in Latin which shows you that edicts were not the be all and end all.

We also do have some in Greek anyway, just not most.

But, if anyone is to blame, why would you assume that it was Christian destruction rather than the consequences of the Arab and Turkish conquests of the Hellenic world that are responsible?

That certainly made it less likely that someone would pay for Christian texts to be copied in perpetuity, and no doubt many Christian libraries were destroyed, even if accidentally.

 

[Trailblazer]

If Jesus is as good as God then either He was lying about nobody is good but God, or He is God.

'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19).

What you are not understanding is that Jesus did not mean "No one is good but God alone" literally. The reason we know that is because we know there are many good people in the world. Jesus just did not ant to be called good since Jesus considered God to be more good than Him.

That passage would be this one: Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

So Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth now, after being a human with a human's power and authority.

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus until the 'end of the age' that Jesus was referring to, but as you know I believe that age ended when the Bab and Baha'u'llah ushered in a new age.

Maybe that is true. They are cute but if we end up letting them outside much we will have the death of many birds and smaller animals in the area.

I don't like it when my cats catch a bird or a squirrel, but that hasn't happened since I stopped letting them out in the fenced area, and even then it was a rarity.

It would be the death of my cats if I ever let them out. I never let my cats out because it is too dangerous for them because of the raccoons and even though I have a fenced area, the raccoons can climb the trees adjacent to the fence and get into the fenced area.

 

[muhammad_isa]

There is a big difference between a desire to do something and the ability to do it in reality.

Also doesn’t explain why this would have any impact on non-Roman Christians.

Care to explain the logistics of these eradications yet?

It's getting tiresome .. I feel I'm repeating myself.

Yet we still have the texts in Latin which shows you that edicts were not the be all and end all.

Yeah .. but the text in Latin was a controversial translation..

Origen is the main source of information on the use of the texts that were later officially canonized as the New Testament
Origen - Wikipedia

The vast majority of the text has only survived in a heavily abridged Latin translation produced by Tyrannius Rufinus in 397. Rufinus was convinced that Origen's original treatise had been interpolated by heretics and that these interpolations were the source of the heterodox teachings found in it. He therefore heavily modified Origen's text, omitting and altering any parts which disagreed with contemporary Christian orthodoxy. Jerome was so appalled by Rufinus's lack of fidelity to the original Greek that he resolved to produce his own Latin translation of On the First Principles in which he would translate every word exactly as it was written and lay bare Origen's heresies to the whole world. Jerome's translation, however, has been lost in its entirety.
On_the_First_Principles - Wikipedia

But, if anyone is to blame, why would you assume that it was Christian destruction rather than the consequences of the Arab and Turkish conquests of the Hellenic world that are responsible?

Arian v Trinitarian started well before Muhammad was born !

 

[Augustus]

It's getting tiresome .. I feel I'm repeating myself

“Even though I can’t begin to explain how it happened, I’m very confident that, without modern transportation and communication technologies, the Roman Emperor eradicated all copies of certain texts across vast geographic regions including those outside of his control.”

Arian v Trinitarian started well before Muhammad was born !

And many texts we know about disappeared after he was born. Natural loss was an ongoing process.

Again you are just assuming any texts must have disappeared prior to the conquests because it fits your preconceived notions about all powerful Christians nefariously hiding the truth.

The Greek world was largely conquered by an (initially) alien culture and religion, and few in the Latin world spoke Greek.

On destruction of texts in the Justinian era:

I have investigated those forms of book-burning and censorship that were sanctioned or tolerated by the Roman authorities. While instances such as these can be seen as government-sanctioned censorship, I have stressed that there was no systematic plan to ban certain genres of texts. Imperial censorship laws often reacted to specific conflicts or requests, and the initial scope of these laws was somewhat regionally and temporarily limited. Moreover, there is the question of whether or not these laws were enforced. While there is some evidence for legal enforcement of some of these laws and it is well possible that other instances are not recorded in the sources, it generally appears unlikely that religious laws of any kind were systematically enforced. The Roman state and provincial administration did not have the staff to put laws into effect immediately.

Christianity, Book-Burning and Censorship in Late Antiquity - D Rohmann​

 

[muhammad_isa]

And many texts we know about disappeared after he was born. Natural loss was an ongoing process.

I don't doubt it..
The Holy Roman Empire was not dissolved until 1806, for example..

You are entitled to believe what you like, but it most certainly is not
"Christian-like" to declare your brother believer in Christ a heretic,
and illegalise such a belief, threatening to use force.

It's hypocrisy.

 

[Brian2]

'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19).

What you are not understanding is that Jesus did not mean "No one is good but God alone" literally. The reason we know that is because we know there are many good people in the world. Jesus just did not ant to be called good since Jesus considered God to be more good than Him.

I see it literally. All are sinners except Jesus, iow there are not any good people in the world, not in the sense that Jesus meant. In the Bible there are people who are described as righteous in their generation but that does not mean they are perfectly good.

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus until the 'end of the age' that Jesus was referring to, but as you know I believe that age ended when the Bab and Baha'u'llah ushered in a new age.

So Jesus had all authority in heaven and on earth even through the time between Muhammad and The Bab?

I don't like it when my cats catch a bird or a squirrel, but that hasn't happened since I stopped letting them out in the fenced area, and even then it was a rarity.

It would be the death of my cats if I ever let them out. I never let my cats out because it is too dangerous for them because of the raccoons and even though I have a fenced area, the raccoons can climb the trees adjacent to the fence and get into the fenced area.

I imagine raccoons would be vicious if cornered.

 

[Brian2]

I don't think you are reading my posts..

It is not what "Islam" prophecies, it is what JEWS prophesise about the Messiah.
Jesus was a Jew .. Christianity, as a religion, had not yet started when Jesus was alive on earth.

G-d in His wisdom, raised him to heaven, before he had fulfilled his role as Messiah.
Jesus will return to fulfill his role as Messiah.
That's it .. simple.

So you and Islam seem to be saying that Christianity is completely false in what it says about Jesus and the OT prophecies that He fulfilled................ except for the virgin birth. And you and Islam do not see any prophecies in the OT about a suffering and dying Messiah whom is raised from the dead.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And you and Islam do not see any prophecies in the OT about a suffering and dying Messiah whom is raised from the dead.

Do the Hebrews?

 

[Muffled]

I believe this is a big subject. I believe some Christians have an adversarial view of other religions. Basically if it isn't Christianity then it must be false.

I believe a lot of the objections stem from perceived falsehoods in the writings.

I believe I have no axe to grind so I can be as objective as any person. So when I say something is false it is due to the fact that the Holy Spirit has given me that perspective.

 

[Muffled]

Krishna and Buddha were not prophets and not messengers. Teachers? Yes. Prophets or messengers? No. Stop trying to lump dharmic figures into your Abrahamic paradigm.

Thank you.

I believe Krishna claimed to be God incarnate but his words betray him as false. The Buddha never revealed his source. Maybe everything came from his own imagination.

 

[Muffled]

Because their messages contradict Christianity.

I believe that is often a perception and not a reality.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see it literally. All are sinners except Jesus, iow there are not many good people in the world, not in the sense that Jesus meant. In the Bible there are people who are described as righteous in their generation but that does not mean they are perfectly good.

I don't believe that anyone is perfectly good except Jesus and maybe Baha'u'llah.

So Jesus had all authority in heaven and on earth even through the time between Muhammad and The Bab?

I believe that He did, since Muhammad was not the return of Christ, so He didn't usher in the new age.

I imagine raccoons would be vicious if cornered.

Probably, but I would never try that! There are people who have tamed raccoons but mine are wild animals.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I believe Krishna claimed to be God incarnate but his words betray him as false. The Buddha never revealed his source. Maybe everything came from his own imagination.

Krishna was the eight incarnation of Vishnu. Explain how his words betray him.

Buddha has a "source?"

 

[Brian2]

Do the Hebrews?

No, the Jews don't think Jesus is the Messiah and do not see that He fulfilled any Messianic prophecies.
Does that mean that you and Islam think that the Messiah will be and do only those things that the Jews say He will be and do? and that basically the Jews were correct about Jesus and He will not come to save sinners from the results of their sinning?
Are Muslims like Baha'is in that they might only believe in Jesus at all because Muhammad (or Baha'u'llah in the case of Baha'is) say He is a prophet?
Muslims seem to be like Baha'is in respect of believing about Jesus only what your prophet allows you to believe.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Right there, division. You believe what BAHA'I believe, not what people of other religions believe. You don't have an argument to present them, you think your view is superior. Religions are subjective and heavily fragmented, but the believers like what they are committed to, and you want to take that away. Is that a winning strategy?

Don't worry about it, it's likely there was no actual Jesus. But look on the bright side, Jesus never spoke bad about gay people like Baha'u'llah. That's love, not bigotry.

I know the truth can be hard to accept as it was for me initially but over time after thinking about it it made a lot of sense that all religions unite as it might help get rid of wars and conflicts. As to homosexuality the Bible and Quran both say the same thing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God. That is a Christian doctrine that developed after Jesus died.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Thanks for all these quotes. I didn’t know the Luke one.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Normal marketing. It is like Coca Cola talking against Pepsi Cola. Replace the sodas market with the superstitions market, and it should become crystal clear to you.

Ciao

- viole

So things like the virtues and upright character which all the major religions teach you are saying is wrong or not in harmony with one another? Buddha taught that one must defeat hate with love (Dhammapadda) and Christ taught love one another (NT) so where is the competition between coke and Pepsi there? If one explores the scriptures of all the major religions they Will discover thousands of complementary passages which prove that the essence of all religions is one and the same and the only differences being what men have added (which was not part of the original teachings in the first place)

 

[Brian2]

So things like the virtues and upright character which all the major religions teach you are saying is wrong or not in harmony with one another? Buddha taught that one must defeat hate with love (Dhammapadda) and Christ taught love one another (NT) so where is the competition between coke and Pepsi there? If one explores the scriptures of all the major religions they Will discover thousands of complementary passages which prove that the essence of all religions is one and the same and the only differences being what men have added (which was not part of the original teachings in the first place)

Why do you say that the gospel message of Jesus was not part of the original teachings of Christianity?
Do you also say that anything that Baha'u'llah said beyond "love people" is not part of his original message?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree prejudice is harmful, but false prophets are harmful. The Mormon prophet and Muslims I think too are prejudiced - homophobic, sexist, and racist - they excluded blacks from the priesthood, only allow men to lead, exclude lgbtq familiess etc. do not allow women the sane privileges as men.

Every group has a few truths or they would not exist. I think most group-think /tribalism is unhealthy, that no supposed "prophet" should be followed. Follow research, reason, "by the people" rather than unhealthy dictator/imperialist/prophets who often preach salvation only comes through them (many polygamous, pedophile, $$abusive "prophets" out there - soft-spoken, grooming, manipulation to a science.

There are many harmful things we can follow. Religious fanaticism is one of the worst. Unfettered science - think Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the arms race. Humanity armed to the teeth to destroy itself a hundred times over all created by the logic and reason of science. This is why we need and God sends a new Prophet for each age because otherwise we would destroy ourselves - think WW1 & 2 - wasn’t God’s fault. Actually if we all obeyed the law of Christ to love one another there would have been world peace long ago.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, the Jews don't think Jesus is the Messiah and do not see that He fulfilled any Messianic prophecies.

Right.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus has fulfilled any Messianic prophecies .. yet.

Does that mean that you and Islam think that the Messiah will be and do only those things that the Jews say He will be and do?

..more or less.

..and that basically the Jews were correct about Jesus..

No .. Jesus is the Messiah, and he will return to fulfill the prophecies.

G-d raised Jesus to "heaven" to return at a time appointed as his mission was untenable.
i.e. the political situation