Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

[Sargonski]

You did not point anything out, all you did was say that I said things which I did not say.
For example, where did I say that God created Jesus and the Spirit of God?

I don't imagine that all trinitarians see the trinity the same way and I doubt that it matters too much to God.
I see the Father as the only true God (as in John 17:3) but that in the Father is the Son and the Spirit of God.
They act together as one God but the Word or the Spirit or the Father might be in the fore, depending on what is being done.
God created all things through the Word, His Son.
The Holy Spirit went with Israel in the wilderness.
Jesus came to earth as a man and died.
In each of these it is God who is acting and God is present each time and both the Son and Spirit are God.
But that God is used as in John 1:1. The Word was with The God and the Word was God.
It is not Modalism where God has 3 ways to express Himself but is the same person. There are 3 persons and each is God as much as the others because the 3 are there present in each one, acting as one God through that one.
The more I say, the more complicated it might sound, even if I am trying to make it less complicated.
Words get in the way sometimes.
But it is not Modalism.
The Gnostic idea sounds somewhere between Modalism and the Trinity. It gets hard to pin point it exactly and I don't know that God ever wanted humans to put out a human dogmatic definition like the Trinity but it was just one of those things that the Church was forced to do by heresies, Arianism etc.


My bad -- I took "God created all things" - to mean he also created Jesus and the Spirit most Holy .. although you do not have the spirit as created like you do Jesus. .. but OK .. Jesus = God =Spirit .. standard Trinitarian dogma

You then claim "They act together as one God .. but one might be in the fore -- depending on what is being done." Which is a contradiction .. Either they are one .. or they are not .. acting together in every creative act .. or they are not ..

There is no "in the fore" .. when you are speaking to the spirit .. you are speaking to both God and Jesus as well. "FULL - STOP"

You then go on to describe another contradiction .. with a loopy doopy twist that has no basis in doctrine . You claim that each member of the trinity .. can be sub divided into the three other members .. which then would repeat infinitely .. but Fine .. this just reinforces that these 3 are one in thought and action .... standard trinity doctrine.

the contradiction - is you then claiming that in this Godhead .. there are three distinct persons. This means there are 3 distinct individuals .. each with a separate will .. a will distinct from the others -- ability to engage in creative .. without the others knowing or involvement or even paying attention.

Congratulations for expression the main contradiction inherent in Trinity doctrine -- the one none can explain .. relegated to "Its a Mystery"

but there is no Mystery -- here -- we are talking 3 different Gods that happen to occupy the same stool once in awhile when they act together according to your dogma ... and on this basis you call them one ..

 

[YoursTrue]

You are the one who has no idea what God means .. as the translation you are using is bad -- and you simply don't understand the subject matter .. such as .. when you see Lord written .. the actual Hebrew Word is not "Lord" most of the time. The name YHWH has been replaced with the word Lord. The Same is True of Elohim -- which in of itself can have numerous meanings but what is written is "GOD" or the Word "EL" "GOD" or the Proper Name "EL" .. all are lumped into the word God.

In this case .. "Council of EL" the Proper Name is used. Hence the New English Translation (NET)

Psalm 82:1
"God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment"

Psalm 82 NET Bible

and these are not human judges occupying the Divine Council in heaven

You have it wrong, but because you are not ready to listen to reason, all I can say is, hey, have a good one!! Bye for now...

 

[YoursTrue]

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Jesus is here quoting Psalm 82:6 where God calls the human Jewish judges, "gods".

That is correct. He was quoting from the psalm. God called the judges there in that psalm as 'gods.'

 

[Sargonski]

You have it wrong, but because you are not ready to listen to reason, all I can say is, hey, have a good one!! Bye for now...

You have it wrong, but because you are not ready to listen to reason, all I can say is, hey, have a good one!! Bye for now...

This is pure projection Brother YT - then running from playground calling names .. because you can not handle Biblical Scripture that does not conform to some man made dogma to which you adhere.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Jesus is here quoting Psalm 82:6 where God calls the human Jewish judges, "gods".

It is called sarcasm .. and this argument addressed at length in the literature .. What the Author of John has to say is of little relevance -- to what the ancient Israelites were up to -- which we now know via modern scholarship .. especially in the last 10-15 years... and they all believed in the Divine Council .. Headed up by EL - the location of this council in the heavens.. described in great detail by Michael Heiser in link - post 418.. which YoursTrue obviously didn't watch as is not ready to listen to reason..

Tell me a little about one if the Temples of YHWH in Israel -- during the glory days of Solomon ,, in which this Song would have been sung .. and what that song meant to the people singing it.

"Sons of the Supreme one" .. are not Humans -- nor are any of the references to "Sons of Elohim" .. such as in Job .. and Genesis .. and Deuteronomy talking about Humans. .. the folks desperately trying to apologize for other Gods .. pulling your chain .. the false prophets .. wolves in sheeps clothing .. hiding from the Truth .. the way .. the light...

Modern Scholarship --- the God of Abraham was EL - You want to say the consensus won't listen to reason -- a consensus which inclues everyone but the evangelical -/Fundamentalists. .. ostracized for their well known tendency to not listen to reason and any talk of readiness to listen is out of the question with that crowd .. got the sophisticated mind control techniques going on ..

So tell me about what a visit to the Temple of YHWH looks like .. back in the "Good Ol Days" when on way up you find many asherah poles .. inside at least two Standing Stones .. one representing YHWH and the Other his Consort. .. Out back you will find a high place -- good for sacrifices .. normally animals .. but in times of war .. when things not going well and War God YHWH's intervention desired .. the occasional human offering .. of course the first born fruits. and on your way out .. do not forget to pay a visit to the Male and Female sacred prostitutes .. what ever your Preference ... before you live .. engage in a little ritual shag.

 

[Brian2]

My bad -- I took "God created all things" - to mean he also created Jesus and the Spirit most Holy .. although you do not have the spirit as created like you do Jesus. .. but OK .. Jesus = God =Spirit .. standard Trinitarian dogma

So Jesus is not created and we know this because all things were created through Jesus (John 1:3) and so Jesus cannot be one of those things that were created.

You then claim "They act together as one God .. but one might be in the fore -- depending on what is being done." Which is a contradiction .. Either they are one .. or they are not .. acting together in every creative act .. or they are not ..

There is no "in the fore" .. when you are speaking to the spirit .. you are speaking to both God and Jesus as well. "FULL - STOP"

Jesus was "in the fore" as the man who lived and died. The Father and Holy Spirit were with and in Him however.
The Holy Spirit was in the fore when He came down to Jesus at His baptism to empower Him to do His ministry, but yes the Father was with Him.

You then go on to describe another contradiction .. with a loopy doopy twist that has no basis in doctrine . You claim that each member of the trinity .. can be sub divided into the three other members .. which then would repeat infinitely .. but Fine .. this just reinforces that these 3 are one in thought and action .... standard trinity doctrine.

It reinforces that they are one thing.
And I don't think you can sub divide them really.
They are in harmony in thought and work together to do things.

the contradiction - is you then claiming that in this Godhead .. there are three distinct persons. This means there are 3 distinct individuals .. each with a separate will .. a will distinct from the others -- ability to engage in creative .. without the others knowing or involvement or even paying attention.

imo they choose to submit to the will of the Father. What they ultimately will is what the Father wills. Jesus the man, in Gethsemany, was able to dislike the idea of being tortured to death, but submit to that.

Congratulations for expression the main contradiction inherent in Trinity doctrine -- the one none can explain .. relegated to "Its a Mystery"

but there is no Mystery -- here -- we are talking 3 different Gods that happen to occupy the same stool once in awhile when they act together according to your dogma ... and on this basis you call them one ..

The idea of 3 different Gods however contradicts the Bible from start to finish, that there is just one YHWH. (Deut 6:4 etc )
Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Father are each called YHWH, not 3 YHWHs but one YHWH, since there is only one YHWH.
One God with 3 persons intimately joined as one YHWH.

 

[Brian2]

It is called sarcasm .. and this argument addressed at length in the literature .. What the Author of John has to say is of little relevance -- to what the ancient Israelites were up to -- which we now know via modern scholarship .. especially in the last 10-15 years... and they all believed in the Divine Council .. Headed up by EL - the location of this council in the heavens.. described in great detail by Michael Heiser in link - post 418.. which YoursTrue obviously didn't watch as is not ready to listen to reason..

Tell me a little about one if the Temples of YHWH in Israel -- during the glory days of Solomon ,, in which this Song would have been sung .. and what that song meant to the people singing it.

"Sons of the Supreme one" .. are not Humans -- nor are any of the references to "Sons of Elohim" .. such as in Job .. and Genesis .. and Deuteronomy talking about Humans. .. the folks desperately trying to apologize for other Gods .. pulling your chain .. the false prophets .. wolves in sheeps clothing .. hiding from the Truth .. the way .. the light...

Modern Scholarship --- the God of Abraham was EL - You want to say the consensus won't listen to reason -- a consensus which inclues everyone but the evangelical -/Fundamentalists. .. ostracized for their well known tendency to not listen to reason and any talk of readiness to listen is out of the question with that crowd .. got the sophisticated mind control techniques going on ..

So tell me about what a visit to the Temple of YHWH looks like .. back in the "Good Ol Days" when on way up you find many asherah poles .. inside at least two Standing Stones .. one representing YHWH and the Other his Consort. .. Out back you will find a high place -- good for sacrifices .. normally animals .. but in times of war .. when things not going well and War God YHWH's intervention desired .. the occasional human offering .. of course the first born fruits. and on your way out .. do not forget to pay a visit to the Male and Female sacred prostitutes .. what ever your Preference ... before you live .. engage in a little ritual shag.

We know that Israel departed from the pure monotheism of Moses and that God taught them. So?
We can also see that the Jews in Jesus day considered Psalm 82 to be about the judges of Israel.
This can be seen in the Psalm itself when we see that these judges are judging people and God wants them to judge justly.
How and when or where it might have been used in the Temple is something that we don't know and it has nothing to do with the meaning Jesus gave it and that was believed by the Jews then.

 

[Sargonski]

So Jesus is not created and we know this because all things were created through Jesus (John 1:3) and so Jesus cannot be one of those things that were created.



Jesus was "in the fore" as the man who lived and died. The Father and Holy Spirit were with and in Him however.
The Holy Spirit was in the fore when He came down to Jesus at His baptism to empower Him to do His ministry, but yes the Father was with Him.



It reinforces that they are one thing.
And I don't think you can sub divide them really.
They are in harmony in thought and work together to do things.



imo they choose to submit to the will of the Father. What they ultimately will is what the Father wills. Jesus the man, in Gethsemany, was able to dislike the idea of being tortured to death, but submit to that.



The idea of 3 different Gods however contradicts the Bible from start to finish, that there is just one YHWH. (Deut 6:4 etc )
Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Father are each called YHWH, not 3 YHWHs but one YHWH, since there is only one YHWH.
One God with 3 persons intimately joined as one YHWH.

One passage Deut 6:4 - does not represent the whole Bible .. your claim that multiple Gods contradicts the whole Bible is demonstrably false... but, none of this relates to or changes the massive contradiction of the Trinity .. which the Bible contradicts in far more places than it is affirmed.. but the contradiction being discussed is not in the Bible .. but in the Trinity itself ..


"3 Persons" = 3 separate Wills = 3 separate Gods .. There are no Theological schools who do not recognize and understand the Trinity Contradiction .. "Sans the fundi's of course" .. and running around crying "The 3 wills are One" does not help you .. because 3 is not one .. three (3) is 3 .. and 3 is not 1.

3 individual - separate and distinct wills = 3 different Gods.. and all the Church has to say on this problem is "Its a mystery" .. They don't deny the contradiction itself like you are doing ..

The Bible talks about many Gods .. Often. Jesus referes to "The Father" as someone other than himself .. every time he refers to the Father.
My God My God -- why have you forsaken me
God - Please take this cup from my hand .. but let it not be my will .. but yours. .. and one can go on and on.. whereas those trying to find evidence for the Trinity from Jesus can manage one or two vague passages that they misinterpret .. agreed by no serious theological school to make the case .. which is vastly outweighted by the massive volumes of evidence to the contrary. Jesus always refers to the Father as someone other than himself ... which affirms the 3 separate persons part of the Trinity .. but contradicts the "Jesus is The Father" part .

 

[Sargonski]

We know that Israel departed from the pure monotheism of Moses and that God taught them. So?
We can also see that the Jews in Jesus day considered Psalm 82 to be about the judges of Israel.
This can be seen in the Psalm itself when we see that these judges are judging people and God wants them to judge justly.
How and when or where it might have been used in the Temple is something that we don't know and it has nothing to do with the meaning Jesus gave it and that was believed by the Jews then.

You can't depart from a place you have never been - Israel was never monotheistic throughout its entire History - which ends when Assyria destroys the Northern Kingdom.

What the Jews in Jesus day thought about Psalm 82 -- we do not know .. nor do we care .. as the question is what did the Israelites believe , what did the people singing the song in one of the Temples of YHWH think - believe.

Why are you so desperate to avoid the beliefs of the Israelites ... the people who wrote the song . and the audience for which this song was written .. none of whome had ever heard of the Gospel of John .. nor of Jesus .. and as such had ZERO bearing on the religious beliefs of these people.

Why is this so difficult to understand .. and why did you not listen to what Michael Heiser has to say about Psalm 82 ?

and last -- yes mate -- we know directly from the Bible that the Israelites were raging pagans for 99% of their time .. but were never monotheists .. as was the author of John. The people were monolateralists that other 1% -- meaning they believed in many Gods -- but only worshiped one.

Your Trinity claim in relation to the Bible is demonstrably false .. 6 ways to sunday Brian.

 

[Brian2]

One passage Deut 6:4 - does not represent the whole Bible .. your claim that multiple Gods contradicts the whole Bible is demonstrably false... but, none of this relates to or changes the massive contradiction of the Trinity .. which the Bible contradicts in far more places than it is affirmed.. but the contradiction being discussed is not in the Bible .. but in the Trinity itself ..

28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God

There are not a few ambiguous Biblical passages that teach that there is only one God, but many explicit passages that clearly declare this cardinal truth. Each of the following 28 passages explicitly teach that there is one — and only one — true and living God.

mit.irr.org

Therefore the contradiction is in you if you say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 Gods.

God - Please take this cup from my hand .. but let it not be my will .. but yours. .. and one can go on and on.. whereas those trying to find evidence for the Trinity from Jesus can manage one or two vague passages that they misinterpret .. agreed by no serious theological school to make the case .. which is vastly outweighted by the massive volumes of evidence to the contrary. Jesus always refers to the Father as someone other than himself ... which affirms the 3 separate persons part of the Trinity .. but contradicts the "Jesus is The Father" part .

Since the trinity does not teach that Jesus is the Father, there is no contradiction in the 3 persons part.
And there are many passages which, when added up, combine to produce a large weight of evidence for the trinity.

 

[Brian2]

You can't depart from a place you have never been - Israel was never monotheistic throughout its entire History - which ends when Assyria destroys the Northern Kingdom.

What the Jews in Jesus day thought about Psalm 82 -- we do not know .. nor do we care .. as the question is what did the Israelites believe , what did the people singing the song in one of the Temples of YHWH think - believe.

Why are you so desperate to avoid the beliefs of the Israelites ... the people who wrote the song . and the audience for which this song was written .. none of whome had ever heard of the Gospel of John .. nor of Jesus .. and as such had ZERO bearing on the religious beliefs of these people.

Why is this so difficult to understand .. and why did you not listen to what Michael Heiser has to say about Psalm 82 ?

Are you wanting to say that in heaven there are many Gods or gods, even when the Bible tells us that is not the case?
And that these Gods are involved in judging people and doing that unjustly, and that God (YHWH) is telling them off and tellling them to judge fairly?
How come you don't accept what Jesus said about the Psalm, that it was God calling the human judges gods?

and last -- yes mate -- we know directly from the Bible that the Israelites were raging pagans for 99% of their time .. but were never monotheists .. as was the author of John. The people were monolateralists that other 1% -- meaning they believed in many Gods -- but only worshiped one.

Your Trinity claim in relation to the Bible is demonstrably false .. 6 ways to sunday Brian.

My trinity claim in relation to modern scholarship of the Bible, that does not recognise the truth of the Bible and of YHWH and of His revelation to Israel, and that does not recognise the history of Israel as presented in the Bible, is demonstrably false.
But I do not see modern scholarship as being automatically right. Do you?

 

[Sargonski]

28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God

There are not a few ambiguous Biblical passages that teach that there is only one God, but many explicit passages that clearly declare this cardinal truth. Each of the following 28 passages explicitly teach that there is one — and only one — true and living God.

mit.irr.org

Therefore the contradiction is in you if you say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 Gods.



Since the trinity does not teach that Jesus is the Father, there is no contradiction in the 3 persons part.
And there are many passages which, when added up, combine to produce a large weight of evidence for the trinity.

Sorry mate - The Trinity Teaches that Jesus IS God ..

And it teaches that the Father is God...

From basic logic/math .. we learn that If A=B , and B=C, that A = C

The second contradiction is claiming there are 3 divine People in the trinity .. each with individual will .. separate from the father i will and in substance but not 3 divinities.

Last -- posting an link of some idiot collecting bible passages that do not reject the Trinity .. does not change the fact that there are a whole buch of passages that do .. making your claim that the entire Bible supports the Trinity False.

What part of -- Ministers - Theologians - Biblical Scholars - Popes - and the Church "Agree there is a contradiction" Did you not understand? Do you know what that means mate .. because everyone that matters disagree's with you .. does not mean you are wrong .. What it means is that you have a really high bar to cross .. posting some link - without pasting a single thing from that link == doesn't cut it .. and is bad forum ediquit to boot.

 

[Sargonski]

Are you wanting to say that in heaven there are many Gods or gods, even when the Bible tells us that is not the case?
And that these Gods are involved in judging people and doing that unjustly, and that God (YHWH) is telling them off and tellling them to judge fairly?
How come you don't accept what Jesus said about the Psalm, that it was God calling the human judges gods?

Holy mind bending made up dyslexic thought patterns. It is not about me wanting to say anything. This is about what the Bible says - and correcting your wildly discombobulated logic

The Bible is written by many individuals at many different periods of time. even some books, such as Isaiah .. was written at different times by different authors .. hence the reason for so many contradictions that the literalist - Fundamentalist can not resolve.

Those writing after the destruction of the Temple - are monotheists .. and so attribute Israel's down fall to worshiping other Gods and the use of Idols. This does not change the fact that the Bible also tells us that Israel were not Monotheists.

The Bible also tells us that there are many Divinities up in heaven.. Sons of God .. among them is Satan .. who speaks to his Father Directly . while in heaven.

Job 1

"One day the "Sons of God" came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

1) Obviously this is taking place in heaven not Earth
2) What are the "Sons of God" if not divinities - clearly these are not humans ? and Satan is also depicted as a God

Divinities in heaven -- and as for Judging -- Deut 32:8 tells us about how each of the nations of the earth are divided among the sons of El - YHWH's portion is Israel. .. and yes .. each God is Judge Jury and executioner of their people just as YHWH to the Israelites.

Psalm 89
O Lord, the heavens[j] praise your amazing deeds,
as well as your faithfulness in the angelic assembly.[k]
6 For who in the skies can compare to the Lord?
Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings,[l]
7 a God who is honored[m] in the great angelic assembly,[n]
and more awesome than[o] all who surround him?
8 O Lord God of Heaven’s Armies![p]
Who is strong like you, O Lord?

We don't even need to look at the footnotes to figure out that there are other Divinities up in heaven .. but when we do go to the footnotes ..

1. Psalm 89:5 tn Heb “in the assembly of the holy ones.” The phrase “holy ones” sometimes refers to God’s people (Ps 34:9) or to their priestly leaders (2 Chr 35:3), but here it refers to God’s heavenly assembly and the angels that surround his throne (see vv. 6-7).
2. Psalm 89:6 tn Heb “sons of gods”; or “sons of God.” Though אֵלִים (ʾelim) is vocalized as a plural form (“gods”) in the Hebrew text, it is likely that the final mem (ם) is actually enclitic rather than a plural marker. In this case one may read “God.” Some, following a Qumran text and the LXX, also propose the phrase occurred in the original text of Deut 32:8. The phrase בְנֵי אֵלִים (vene ʾelim, “sons of gods” or “sons of God”) occurs only here and in Ps 29:1. Since the “sons of gods/God” are here associated with “the assembly of the holy ones” and “council of the holy ones,” the heavenly assembly (comprised of so-called “angels” and other supernatural beings) appears to be in view. See Job 5:1; 15:15 and Zech 14:5, where these supernatural beings are referred to as “holy ones.” In Canaanite mythological texts the divine council of the high god El is called “the sons of El.” The OT apparently uses the Canaanite phrase, applying it to the supernatural beings that surround the Lord’s heavenly throne.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 89 - New English Translation

Psalm 89 - A well-written song by Ethan the Ezrahite. I will sing continually about the LORD’s faithful deeds; to future generations I will proclaim your faithfulness. For I say, “Loyal love is permanently established; in the skies you set up your faithfulness.” The LORD said, “I have made a...

www.biblegateway.com

Straight out of the Bible Brian --- what is Satan ... if not a God cause he isn't an Angel .. as the angels are distinguished from the heavenly assembly .. but also for other reasons which we will discover as you protest the obvious reality.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Bible also tells us that there are many Divinities up in heaven.. Sons of God .. among them is Satan .. who speaks to his Father Directly . while in heaven.

"sons of G-d" in Judaism are angels, prophets or saints .. not gods .. G-d created all three.

 

[Sargonski]

"sons of G-d" in Judaism are angels, prophets or saints .. not gods .. G-d created all three.

Simply not true ... The "Sons of God" in Job are "Gods" .. Satan is a God... .. but regardless what are you claiming is the difference between an Angel and a God .. define what you mean by God .. and Angel === and the point of the exercize is not to understand what Judaim claim to believe .. but what the Israelites believed --- This is extremely important to understand when reading the Bible... which parts came from Israel -- and which from the later Redactors - writing after the exile in Persia .. having learned a new religion .. and a new God .. but that is another story.

Distinguish between Angel - God ..

 

[Brian2]

Sorry mate - The Trinity Teaches that Jesus IS God .. View attachment 77843
And it teaches that the Father is God...

From basic logic/math .. we learn that If A=B , and B=C, that A = C

The second contradiction is claiming there are 3 divine People in the trinity .. each with individual will .. separate from the father i will and in substance but not 3 divinities.

Last -- posting an link of some idiot collecting bible passages that do not reject the Trinity .. does not change the fact that there are a whole buch of passages that do .. making your claim that the entire Bible supports the Trinity False.

What part of -- Ministers - Theologians - Biblical Scholars - Popes - and the Church "Agree there is a contradiction" Did you not understand? Do you know what that means mate .. because everyone that matters disagree's with you .. does not mean you are wrong .. What it means is that you have a really high bar to cross .. posting some link - without pasting a single thing from that link == doesn't cut it .. and is bad forum ediquit to boot.

The Father is the only true God and since the Son and Holy Spirit are in the one true God and He is in them, they also are divine/of God, and so are as much God, as the Father is. They are all of the one God.
Your A = B etc algebra has nothing to do with anything we are talking about because neither I nor any official trinity doctrine says that A =B and B=C. You keep making claims about the trinity and what I am supposed to have said which are not true.

I was not wanting to show that there is a trinity with the link I posted, but was just showing that the Bible teaches that there is only one true God, something which you denied. You seem to want to claim that there are many true gods but Israel worshipped one of those gods, YHWH. But in doing that you end up forcing the Bible to contradict itself, as I have shown with the link. Maybe you should just believe that there is only one true God, YHWH, God Almighty and that might help you to see that any other sons of God or gods mentioned in the Bible are either angels or idols or fallen angels.

There are things which look like contradictions in the trinity doctrine but what you have mentioned are straw man contradictions which neither I nor any trinity doctrine have said.

 

[Brian2]

The Bible is written by many individuals at many different periods of time. even some books, such as Isaiah .. was written at different times by different authors .. hence the reason for so many contradictions that the literalist - Fundamentalist can not resolve.

OK I already worked out that you don't believe the Bible.

Those writing after the destruction of the Temple - are monotheists .. and so attribute Israel's down fall to worshiping other Gods and the use of Idols. This does not change the fact that the Bible also tells us that Israel were not Monotheists.

Those writing before the Exile warn Israel and Judah about worshipping false gods and that God (YHWH) was going to punish them for that, according to the rules of the Covenant they were in with YHWH.

The Bible also tells us that there are many Divinities up in heaven.. Sons of God .. among them is Satan .. who speaks to his Father Directly . while in heaven.

Job 1

"One day the "Sons of God" came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

1) Obviously this is taking place in heaven not Earth
2) What are the "Sons of God" if not divinities - clearly these are not humans ? and Satan is also depicted as a God

Divinities in heaven -- and as for Judging -- Deut 32:8 tells us about how each of the nations of the earth are divided among the sons of El - YHWH's portion is Israel. .. and yes .. each God is Judge Jury and executioner of their people just as YHWH to the Israelites.

From one verse, Deut 32:8, which has different translations and understanding, you have set up a whole theology it seems, which contradicts the monotheism of the Bible and prefers the scriptures of modern secular scholars who also do not believe the Biblical version of things.

Psalm 89
O Lord, the heavens[j] praise your amazing deeds,
as well as your faithfulness in the angelic assembly.[k]
6 For who in the skies can compare to the Lord?
Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings,[l]
7 a God who is honored[m] in the great angelic assembly,[n]
and more awesome than[o] all who surround him?
8 O Lord God of Heaven’s Armies![p]
Who is strong like you, O Lord?

We don't even need to look at the footnotes to figure out that there are other Divinities up in heaven .. but when we do go to the footnotes ..

1. Psalm 89:5 tn Heb “in the assembly of the holy ones.” The phrase “holy ones” sometimes refers to God’s people (Ps 34:9) or to their priestly leaders (2 Chr 35:3), but here it refers to God’s heavenly assembly and the angels that surround his throne (see vv. 6-7).
2. Psalm 89:6 tn Heb “sons of gods”; or “sons of God.” Though אֵלִים (ʾelim) is vocalized as a plural form (“gods”) in the Hebrew text, it is likely that the final mem (ם) is actually enclitic rather than a plural marker. In this case one may read “God.” Some, following a Qumran text and the LXX, also propose the phrase occurred in the original text of Deut 32:8. The phrase בְנֵי אֵלִים (vene ʾelim, “sons of gods” or “sons of God”) occurs only here and in Ps 29:1. Since the “sons of gods/God” are here associated with “the assembly of the holy ones” and “council of the holy ones,” the heavenly assembly (comprised of so-called “angels” and other supernatural beings) appears to be in view. See Job 5:1; 15:15 and Zech 14:5, where these supernatural beings are referred to as “holy ones.” In Canaanite mythological texts the divine council of the high god El is called “the sons of El.” The OT apparently uses the Canaanite phrase, applying it to the supernatural beings that surround the Lord’s heavenly throne.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 89 - New English Translation

Psalm 89 - A well-written song by Ethan the Ezrahite. I will sing continually about the LORD’s faithful deeds; to future generations I will proclaim your faithfulness. For I say, “Loyal love is permanently established; in the skies you set up your faithfulness.” The LORD said, “I have made a...

www.biblegateway.com

Straight out of the Bible Brian --- what is Satan ... if not a God cause he isn't an Angel .. as the angels are distinguished from the heavenly assembly .. but also for other reasons which we will discover as you protest the obvious reality.

Satan was a high ranking supernatural being in the heavenly courts and God (YHWH) is the only true God who teaches the judges of Israel (as in Psalm 82) and who judges all His angels and other supernatural beings, just as He judged the actions of Satan in Eden. (Gen 3:14) They are all created beings and should submit to their creator, YHWH, who in the end, owns and rules all of His creation.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Simply not true ... The "Sons of God" in Job are "Gods" .. Satan is a God...

hogwash

 

[muhammad_isa]

Distinguish between Angel - God ..

It is fundamental .. G-d created the universe .. G-d created angels.

 

[Sargonski]

It is fundamental .. G-d created the universe .. G-d created angels.

All good in the hood .. but doesn't change the fact that according to the Bible there are other Gods in addition to angels.

 

[Sargonski]

OK I already worked out that you don't believe the Bible.



Those writing before the Exile warn Israel and Judah about worshipping false gods and that God (YHWH) was going to punish them for that, according to the rules of the Covenant they were in with YHWH.



From one verse, Deut 32:8, which has different translations and understanding, you have set up a whole theology it seems, which contradicts the monotheism of the Bible and prefers the scriptures of modern secular scholars who also do not believe the Biblical version of things.



Satan was a high ranking supernatural being in the heavenly courts and God (YHWH) is the only true God who teaches the judges of Israel (as in Psalm 82) and who judges all His angels and other supernatural beings, just as He judged the actions of Satan in Eden. (Gen 3:14) They are all created beings and should submit to their creator, YHWH, who in the end, owns and rules all of His creation.

Who doesn't believe the Bible ? YOU -- Thats who -- but what difference does it make and thus why such a stupid comment. Like the vast overwhelming Majority of Christians .. I believe parts of the Bible and others I do not -- like YOU -- lests you are a fundamentalist Literalist .. which is a problem .. but let us not down this fallacious rabbit hole further.

Exile- another #$R$ comment ? -- demonstrating lack of understanding what you are responding to because you don't know the Bible - "After the Fall of Israel" - aka The Northern Kingdom -- folks blamed this fall on displeasing the war God YHWH. What part did you not understand and or not believe ? .. this has been stated to you numerous times .. you now trying to repeat back to me but failing ... SO - what does these writers after getting crushed .. blaming the fall on Israelite Paganism ... have to do with the fact .. that Israelites were Pagans ? Worshiping many Gods ..along side YHWH .. when they remembered him .. and even the ones who were worshiping only YHWH -- still believed in the Other Gods .. they just didn't worship them "Monolateralism" .. in the commands YHWH doesn't tell you that there are no other Gods .. just that you shall not put the other Gods before him ... such as the Desert God Azazel .. to which YHWH has the Israelites make a sacrifice.

I havn't set up any theology - what is this raging nonsense -- desperate to make this about me and put words in my mouth .. "Strawman fallacy"/ "Ad Hom fallacy" .. anything but the Bible you are desperately trying to avoid .. "not believe in". I am not telling you MY theology - I am telling you the theology of the Israelites .. which you seem to not want to believe .. followed by crying out that I am an Unbeliever .. in some kind of circular projection thing...

Passages like Deut 32:8 - and in particular Deut 32:43 - were whitewashed of other divinities by later copyists in later translations of the Talmud. - which resulted in the different "Understanding/Translation" to which you refer .. If you want to see a bad case of "Pious Fraud". compare the LXX Translation of 32:43 .. to the MT translation .. to the 4DeutQ

The LXX and 4DeutQ are prior to Jesus 100-300BC -- the MT was done 700-1000AD -- by Jews -- who were being wildly persecuted and in fact blamed for the death of Christ.. so some of this sanitization was understandable -- not wanting to be roasted at the Stake by Christians.

Here (on page 6) are the three Translations side by side https://thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

We will start with the LXX - Deut 32:43 -

"O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with His people and let all angels of the divine strengthen themselves in Him.
For He’ll avenge the blood of His sons, be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
And the Lord will Cleanse His people’s land"

The next is the Masoretic Text (MT) -

"O nations, rejoice His people
For He’ll avenge the blood of His servants and wreak vengeance on His foes
And will cleanse His people’s land"

It is a severe Hack Job .. all the stuff in Bold wiped clean in the MT. The whole heavenly party is left out of the picture .. "The Heavens" rejoicing with the Supreme One .. .. along with all the "Sons of the Divine" bowing to him (on a lower level but still Gods .. like Sataniel) and on the next rung lower we find the Angels . all of this clearly going on in heaven .. not referring to any human rulers .. descriptive of the divine Pantheon .. in which everyone at the time of the Israelites believed.

Do you understand Brian - ?? -- the Israelites were not Monotheists - Israel ends with the destruction of the Northern Kingdom --- Judah and the Benjaminites remain -- but there are no "Jews" until after the Exile.

So ...round the time of David and Solomon --when Psalms was written - songs that would be sung in Church/Temple - NO ONE in Israel believes that YHWH is the Only God .. this is simply not what these people believe.. They believe in a Pantheon ..and almost all in Israel are worshiping gods other than YHWH .. never mind belief in their existence .. which includes YHWH who also believes in the Existence of other Gods .. who - in Psalm 82 -- defeats these other Gods .. and Psalm 89 Read the Green part ... and notice the white washing done by the KJV -- https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa89.pdf

and to make sure you have done your homework .. Who is the other Named Diety that shows up alongside YHWH in Psalm 89 ? and WHO - does not want to believe the Bible .. who is the "disbeliever" in the room ? Tell me Brian...