Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

[muhammad_isa]

So ...round the time of David and Solomon -- NO ONE in Israel believes that YHWH is the Only God ..

That's nonsense..
I would agree that the children of Israel sometimes fell into polytheism..
..but that has nothing to do with the Oneness of G-d.

That would be mankind, who might corrupt the first commandment with their own devices.

 

[Sargonski]

That's nonsense..
I would agree that the children of Israel sometimes fell into polytheism..
..but that has nothing to do with the Oneness of G-d.

That would be mankind, who might corrupt the first commandment with their own devices.

No .. what is nonsense is you crying "Nonsense" - but having no idea what the Bible says on the issue --

Please quantify "Sometimes" - Just on the basis of the Bible -- no made up fantasy based on some denominational dogma por favor.

After which we can come to grips with the lack of foundation for your beliefs !?

 

[Sargonski]

hogwash

It is not my fault that your beliefs are "Hogwash" -- demonstrated by your inability to utter anything but "Hogwash"

1) define GOD .. what is a God .. define these lesser supernatural beings -- and distinguish from Angel

Then tell me what "Sons of God(s)" is referring to in Job ? Did you think Satan was an "Angel" .. wunderful .. tell me what would distinguish between an Angel and a god ? -- these lesser supernatural beings you claim don't exist in the minds of the Israelites.

Something other than Hogwash por favor .. Lets have a chat about our friend Sataniel . and where you place her on the Divinity Scale. and can you produce something other than "Hogwash" to support your claim.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No .. what is nonsense is you crying "Nonsense" - but having no idea what the Bible says on the issue --

..another of your assumptions .. that I have no idea what the Bible teaches.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

All good in the hood .. but doesn't change the fact that according to the Bible there are other Gods in addition to angels.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Then tell me what "Sons of God(s)" is referring to in Job ? Did you think Satan was an "Angel" .. wunderful .. tell me what would distinguish between an Angel and a god ? -- these lesser supernatural beings you claim don't exist in the minds of the Israelites.

God is eternal, uncreated. Angels are created beings, thus, not deity.

 

[Sargonski]

God is eternal, uncreated. Angels are created beings, thus, not deity.

So your claim is that nothing created by God is divine.

What a blathering mouthfull of hogwash mate which you promised not to do .. an fallacious black vs white paradigm .. good one sport !

Define what you mean by "Diety" for example the having of a Divine Power such as the ability to bring lighting down from the sky on command -- Parting the Reed Sea .. Does the having divine abilities not meet your definition of Divinity ?? or Does it .. ?? and if not .. what skills are required to meet your definition of divinity ...

and know regardless of what you say .. don't mean nothing to what the fellow who wrote the story thought .. nor his audience .. but go ahead.. support your claim that God can not create a lesser God .. as will be an interesting journey.

 

[Sargonski]

..another of your assumptions .. that I have no idea what the Bible teaches.

Then support your claim .. that the Israelites were Monotheist .. the majority of the time .. sans a few lapses in to the abyss.

a claim that only someone who has no idea about what the portion of the Bible related to Israelite theology teaches. This is general Bible Knowledge 101 mate .. not like I am parrotting some "Conspiracy Theory" .. every serious biblical scholar and /or theologian and/or Preacher John understands this .. even Fundamentalists ..


But go ahead .. support your claim .. show us one period of time where the Israelites are monotheist .. can be rough X number of Years. Just to get things started down the path of your schooling.

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. support your claim that God can not create a lesser God ..

G-d does not procreate .. He is neither male or female.
satan is not "a god" .. unless you make him one .. but that is foolishness.

 

[Sargonski]

G-d does not procreate .. He is neither male or female.
satan is not "a god" .. unless you make him one .. but that is foolishness.

Creation is God's procreation .. M u h a m u

and the only foolishness going on here --- is you not defining what you mean by the word "God" ... and the fact that your opinions and hypothesis matter not .. as we are asking the question .... what did the fellow writing the text believe ,,,not the nature of your baseless and and uninformed opinions - on what God does and does not do.

How many times need you be asked to clarify what you mean by "GOD" .. what the requirements are to achieve that status.. .. and if not God-like Powers ... how do you classify an entity that can bring lightling from the sky .. or part the Reed Sea .. through force of will ..

And who is the foolish one in the room that you keep referring to ... that foolish conversation going on that you keep referring to ... from where doth that come .. if naught other than big log in own eye.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..the only foolishness going on here --- is you not defining what you mean by the word "God"

G-d .. as in the belief of Jews, Christians and Muslims .. perhaps take a look one day.

 

[Sargonski]

G-d .. as in the belief of Jews, Christians and Muslims .. perhaps take a look one day.

What part of .. we are discussing the Iraelites -- did you lose track of ? You were telling us about a period of time when the Israelites were monotheistic .. to back up your unsubstantiated claim.

Still waiting mate .. Looks like another log .. and that it is you who needs to take a look at the Bible one day .. because your made up prognostications are all wrong.

Israelite Monotheism .. give one period of time when the Israelites were monotheistic --- From the Bible or admit your foolish error .. and stop trying to hide from the Truth.

 

[Sargonski]

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

We know what Post Exilic Isaiah has to say about God .. but this was not what the Israelites believed .. Still mired in the "Hogwash"

and you completely avoided/failed to address the question of who were the "Sons of God" --- nor what divine power is required to claim some entity has divine power .. and how Satan doesn't fit the bill .. lightlingbolts down from the sky doesn't count .. ??

 

[IndigoChild5559]

We know what Post Exilic Isaiah has to say about God .. but this was not what the Israelites believed .. Still mired in the "Hogwash"

and you completely avoided/failed to address the question of who were the "Sons of God" --- nor what divine power is required to claim some entity has divine power .. and how Satan doesn't fit the bill .. lightlingbolts down from the sky doesn't count .. ??

I back up what I say with evidence. You seem to think people should just accept you as an authority. Not gonna happen.

Others have already explained to you what the Sons of God in Job were, plus it was obvious from the verse I quoted. I don't need to repeat what you have already learned.

 

[Sargonski]

I back up what I say with evidence. You seem to think people should just accept you as an authority. Not gonna happen.

Others have already explained to you what the Sons of God in Job were, plus it was obvious from the verse I quoted. I don't need to repeat what you have already learned.

You haven't backed up squat .. just cried "God is one" over and over .. citing a few passages stating as much .. completely avoiding the fact that this was not what the Israelites believed.. The Israelites were not "Monotheists" nor their belief .. and was the Israelites that wrote that song .. sung it in Church

You did not explain your definition of God .. vs Angel .. so we have no idea what you are talking about .. your so called explanation of the Sons of God .. What is Satan .. does he have divine powers .. or not.. cause if Angels have divine powers .. then Angels are Gods .. feel me smarty pants ?! Your just playing a circular fallacious semantic game Desperataly trying to pretend there is nothing in between God and Angel .. or able to quantify what either end of your black and white paradigm means.

Define your terms ... Mr. Hogwash -- "God - Angel" and can God not create a lesser God - a being with some God like Powers - lesser than that of the Father.. did you forget that one ??

 

[Brian2]

Who doesn't believe the Bible ? YOU -- Thats who -- but what difference does it make and thus why such a stupid comment. Like the vast overwhelming Majority of Christians .. I believe parts of the Bible and others I do not -- like YOU -- lests you are a fundamentalist Literalist .. which is a problem .. but let us not down this fallacious rabbit hole further.

OK, you believe parts of the Bible.

Exile- another #$R$ comment ? -- demonstrating lack of understanding what you are responding to because you don't know the Bible - "After the Fall of Israel" - aka The Northern Kingdom -- folks blamed this fall on displeasing the war God YHWH. What part did you not understand and or not believe ? .. this has been stated to you numerous times .. you now trying to repeat back to me but failing ... SO - what does these writers after getting crushed .. blaming the fall on Israelite Paganism ... have to do with the fact .. that Israelites were Pagans ? Worshiping many Gods ..along side YHWH .. when they remembered him .. and even the ones who were worshiping only YHWH -- still believed in the Other Gods .. they just didn't worship them "Monolateralism" .. in the commands YHWH doesn't tell you that there are no other Gods .. just that you shall not put the other Gods before him ... such as the Desert God Azazel .. to which YHWH has the Israelites make a sacrifice.

Prophets warned Israel not to worship false gods before the exile. God tells Israel through Isaiah that He is the only God and there are no others.
Those who are true to the one true God, YHWH, believe that imo.
YHWH does not have anyone sacrifice anything to Azazel.

I havn't set up any theology - what is this raging nonsense -- desperate to make this about me and put words in my mouth .. "Strawman fallacy"/ "Ad Hom fallacy" .. anything but the Bible you are desperately trying to avoid .. "not believe in". I am not telling you MY theology - I am telling you the theology of the Israelites .. which you seem to not want to believe .. followed by crying out that I am an Unbeliever .. in some kind of circular projection thing...

Passages like Deut 32:8 - and in particular Deut 32:43 - were whitewashed of other divinities by later copyists in later translations of the Talmud. - which resulted in the different "Understanding/Translation" to which you refer .. If you want to see a bad case of "Pious Fraud". compare the LXX Translation of 32:43 .. to the MT translation .. to the 4DeutQ

The LXX and 4DeutQ are prior to Jesus 100-300BC -- the MT was done 700-1000AD -- by Jews -- who were being wildly persecuted and in fact blamed for the death of Christ.. so some of this sanitization was understandable -- not wanting to be roasted at the Stake by Christians.

Here (on page 6) are the three Translations side by side https://thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

We will start with the LXX - Deut 32:43 -

"O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with His people and let all angels of the divine strengthen themselves in Him.
For He’ll avenge the blood of His sons, be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
And the Lord will Cleanse His people’s land"

The next is the Masoretic Text (MT) -

"O nations, rejoice His people
For He’ll avenge the blood of His servants and wreak vengeance on His foes
And will cleanse His people’s land"

It is a severe Hack Job .. all the stuff in Bold wiped clean in the MT. The whole heavenly party is left out of the picture .. "The Heavens" rejoicing with the Supreme One .. .. along with all the "Sons of the Divine" bowing to him (on a lower level but still Gods .. like Sataniel) and on the next rung lower we find the Angels . all of this clearly going on in heaven .. not referring to any human rulers .. descriptive of the divine Pantheon .. in which everyone at the time of the Israelites believed.

Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Since Deuteronomy clearly says that YHWH is the only God, it sees that it would be common sense to not call the sons of God, real gods. Angels would be more appropriate. Where is there a distinction drawn between sons of God in heaven and angels?

Do you understand Brian - ?? -- the Israelites were not Monotheists - Israel ends with the destruction of the Northern Kingdom --- Judah and the Benjaminites remain -- but there are no "Jews" until after the Exile.

OK but that is rather finicky when Israel included Judah and Benjamine initially.

So ...round the time of David and Solomon --when Psalms was written - songs that would be sung in Church/Temple - NO ONE in Israel believes that YHWH is the Only God .. this is simply not what these people believe.. They believe in a Pantheon ..and almost all in Israel are worshiping gods other than YHWH .. never mind belief in their existence .. which includes YHWH who also believes in the Existence of other Gods .. who - in Psalm 82 -- defeats these other Gods .. and Psalm 89 Read the Green part ... and notice the white washing done by the KJV -- https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa89.pdf

Through the time of the Judges there were lapses in the monotheism of Israel and God punished and brought the people back to Him for a time. Saul, David and Solomon saw mainly monotheism. But going after idols and not sticking to monotheism was not far from the surface. That seems to be what the Bible says imo.
If Israel had been anything other than monotheistic then YHWH would not have used David and Solomon as He did to establish Israel and YHWH worship solidly around the Temple worship. But as I said, idolatry was close to the surface and reared it's ugly head more and more even though God warned the people and Kings through the prophets. Only a handful of the Kings of either Kingdom did as God wanted and tried to stop worship of other gods.
But these other gods were not true gods according to YHWH, but of course they existed just as Krishna and Ganeesha exist today.
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa89.pdf

and to make sure you have done your homework .. Who is the other Named Diety that shows up alongside YHWH in Psalm 89 ? and WHO - does not want to believe the Bible .. who is the "disbeliever" in the room ? Tell me Brian...

You tell me.

 

[Sargonski]

OK, you believe parts of the Bible.



Prophets warned Israel not to worship false gods before the exile. God tells Israel through Isaiah that He is the only God and there are no others.
Those who are true to the one true God, YHWH, believe that imo.
YHWH does not have anyone sacrifice anything to Azazel.



Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Since Deuteronomy clearly says that YHWH is the only God, it sees that it would be common sense to not call the sons of God, real gods. Angels would be more appropriate. Where is there a distinction drawn between sons of God in heaven and angels?



OK but that is rather finicky when Israel included Judah and Benjamine initially.



Through the time of the Judges there were lapses in the monotheism of Israel and God punished and brought the people back to Him for a time. Saul, David and Solomon saw mainly monotheism. But going after idols and not sticking to monotheism was not far from the surface. That seems to be what the Bible says imo.
If Israel had been anything other than monotheistic then YHWH would not have used David and Solomon as He did to establish Israel and YHWH worship solidly around the Temple worship. But as I said, idolatry was close to the surface and reared it's ugly head more and more even though God warned the people and Kings through the prophets. Only a handful of the Kings of either Kingdom did as God wanted and tried to stop worship of other gods.
But these other gods were not true gods according to YHWH, but of course they existed just as Krishna and Ganeesha exist today.
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa89.pdf


You tell me.

Told you 3 or 4 times now -- the post exile writers blamed everything on displeasing YHWH - so why are you repeating this back to me ... as if it has something to do with what writers from the time of Solomon are saying ?

"Lapses in Monotheism during the time of the Judges" - such a comment shows a depth of misunderstanding - Read the Bible -- There is no "Monotheism" in the history of the Israelites - Everyone believes in the existence of other Gods... even if they only worship one = Monolateralism. BUT -- rather than lapses -- almost all of the time the Israelites are worshiping other Gods alongside YHWH .. if worshiping YHWH at all .. during some periods he is completely forgotten.

Just read the Bible for yourself -- no need to consult the academics .. not that you have done that but no need. "Lapses" .. Find me a time when the Israelites were not lapsing ..

and last -- "Ok so you believe only parts of the Bible" - YES Brian .. Just like You.. -- do you need proof ? Now support your claim and find a time period when the Israelites were Monotheists .. (answer - Never) .. so we will make it easier .. find a time when they were Monolateralists = belief in other Gods but worshiping only YHWH - Abe's Idea .. not worshiping the other Gods along-side YHWH.

Tell you what .. even easier still -- find a time when the Israelites were not raging Pagans -- YHWH just one of a number of Gods worshiped.

and to answer your quest for proof of your own folly - Should children be persecuted and Killed for the Sins of their Parents - and/or others in the Tribe. This question is not asking what you think .. it is asking what you believe YHWH thinks on the topic.

Now show us the money .. support this claim of yours -- find us a time period when the Israelites when the Israelites were not raging Pagans.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Should children be persecuted and Killed for the Sins of their Parents - and/or others in the Tribe.

It's not a case of whether they should .. it's a case of whether they will be.

If most people are murderers, does that not have an effect on the minority, on how they will be treated by others?
If children are brought up in a bad environment, does that not affect them?

 

[Sargonski]

It's not a case of whether they should .. it's a case of whether they will be.

If most people are murderers, does that not have an effect on the minority, on how they will be treated by others?
If children are brought up in a bad environment, does that not affect them?

I am still waiting for you to show us a time when the Israelites are not raging Pagans = worshiping other gods along side or in place of YHWH. How about backing up your claims instead of running from them .. and running from scripture that does not fit in with your man made dogma..

and it is not a case of what you think Should be -- but What YHWH says is to be. Are we to kill babies and fetuses for the Sins of their parents and/or others in the Tribe ...or are we to not kill.

What does YHWH say --- what must a good YHWH worshiper do to be put right with God

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am still waiting for you to show us a time when the Israelites are not raging Pagans..

Well, history seems to be your forte..
I approach the subject differently to you.

You assume that there is no "creator", and mankind is superstitious and made up a load of gods.
I assume that there is a creator, and He sent messengers from ourselves, the evidence being
the scriptures that we have.

Can historical record prove either you or I incorrect? Certainly not.
Historical record is tainted by the opinion of authors.