Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

[dybmh]

That is a horrible suggestion .. thre is no name analysis in Chronicles .. they can't even get the lineage right .. desperate to fit our good Zadok into the picture .. a Priest who was ot an Israelite .. so no relation to what Chronicles Claims.

Of course it's a good method. If you think they got names wrong, then you have no claim that Zadok's name in Chronicales is Zadok. And if that's wrong then there's no geneology problem. So, at a certain point, you're either trusting the text, or not. If you're not trusting the text, then there is no problem, there is no objection.

Your claim that there was no Sedek among Canaanite Gods turned out to be completely false.

Oh? Let's look.

Sydyk (Συδυκ, in some manuscripts Sydek or Sedek) was the name of a deity appearing in a theogeny provided by Roman-era Phoenician writer Philo of Byblos in an account preserved by Eusebius in his Praeparatio evangelica and attributed to the still earlier Sanchuniathon.[1]

Hmmm Sedek or Sydek? with an "S"? You've been calling it Zedek. No wonder I couldn't find anything.

In Hebrew that would be סדק שדק compared to צדק. Not super close, but let's keep going.

Etymology and role in the Phoenician theogeny​

Philo of Byblos gave the Greek meaning of the name as Δίκαιον "Righteousness", thus indicating that the word corresponds to the Semitic root for "righteousness", √ṣdq.

ok... Δίκαι- stem could be just could be righteous

A Phoenician god named ṣdq is well attested epigraphically; he is also mentioned by Philo as half of a pair of deities with Misor (Μισωρ). Sydyk and Misor are described as being born from Amunos and Magos, who were in turn born from the "Wanderers" or Titans. Sydyk is described as the father of the "Dioskouroi or Kabeiroi or Korybants or Samothracians", who are credited with the invention of the ship.[2

Ok... s-d-k... notice no vowels.

The Phoenician Sydyk was equated with Roman Jupiter, and hence it has been suggested that Sydyk was connected to the worship of the planet Jupiter as the manifestation of justice or righteousness Sydyk - Wikipedia

ok....

why didn't you quote the rest?

"It has also been conjectured that a related deity named or titled "Tzedek" (i.e. "righteousness") was worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem"

Conjecture. Pre-israelite.

So, how is this even relevant to Zadok, again? Like I said, I researched this myself, and everything is based on assumptions that sometimes when tzedek is in the Hebrew bible, the text is actually speaking about the other god. But none of that makes sense, because Isaiah and Jeremiah are repeatedly rebuking the Jewish people for straying after other gods. So it makes zero sense in context to think that the gates of righteousness are somehow the gates of Sedek, the god. It's completely out of character.

But this is how polytheists think. Love is a god, Justice is a god, Wrath is a god, Jealousy is a god... everything is a god. But none of that fits with the message of the Hebrew bible, especially the prophets. So trying to make that case, is rather silly. And theres plenty of examples of tzedek that make zero sense if it's a god.

​

מאזני צדק אבני־צדק איפת צדק והין צדק יהיה לכם אני יהוה אלהיכם אשר־הוצאתי אתכם מארץ מצרים׃​

​

Sedek balances, Sedek weights, a Sedek ephah, and a Sedek hin, shall you have; I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.​

Ummmm, what?

ואצוה את־שפטיכם בעת ההוא לאמר שמע בין־אחיכם ושפטתם צדק בין־איש ובין־אחיו ובין גרו׃​

And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brothers, and judge Sedek between every man and his brother, and the stranger who is with him.​

Judge the god Sedek, eh?

והיה צדק אזור מתניו והאמונה אזור חלציו׃​

And Sedek shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.​

This one is interesting. Notice the poetic couplet. If Sedek, the god, will girdle the loins, the faithfulness is also a god, which will girdle the reins. And this is Isaiah who proclaims God is absolutley alone, and there is no other. So it makes zero sense, for Isaiah to be invoking the god Sedek, much less some other god, faithfulness.

הרעיפו שמים ממעל ושחקים יזלו־צדק תפתח־ארץ ויפרו־ישע וצדקה תצמיח יחד אני יהוה בראתיו׃​

Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down Sedek; let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let Sedek-feminine spring up also; I, the Lord, have created it.​

This is also Isaiah. What's interesting here is the masculine Sedek, and the matched pairing with the feminine Sedakah. So again, if the first part of the verse is Sedek, the god, then the 2nd half has a 2nd god, this time a feminine Sedek. Makes no sense for Isaiah to speak this way, and it barely is comprehensible if these are words for gods.

כה־אמר יהוה צבאות אלהי ישראל עוד יאמרו את־הדבר הזה בארץ יהודה ובעריו בשובי את־שבותם יברכך יהוה נוה־צדק הר הקדש׃​

Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Again they shall use these words in the land of Judah and in its cities, when I shall bring back their captivity; The Lord bless you, O habitation of Sedek, and mountain of holiness.​

This is Jeremiah. This verse is mentioned by multiple scholars as a so-called good example. But it makes no sense at all. Similar to Isaiah, there' a poetic couplet. If it's the habitation of Sedek, the god. Then it's also the mountain of holiness, the god. And this is completely out of character for Jeremiah. But a polythiest doesn't care about that. Everything is a god to them.

That's enough examples I think. Thank you for bringing actual evidence that this god existed, Sedek, Sydyk, S?d?k, not Zedek. But all there is, is conjecture that there's a connection. And if that conjecture is assumed true, it was worshipped by non-israelites.

 

[Brian2]

Look "Does it matter what Scholars say?" -- What kind of a question is this -- is this some kind of license to disbelieve anything that conflicts with some man made dogma you ingested and/or you were force fed ..

Not just Scholars --- but Theologians - History - Biblical Archaeology --- agree that most of Deuteronomy was either written and/or redacted ~ 500BC

We can't believe everything Biblical scholars say.
But redaction seems true.

So within the same Book .. even the same chapter ... you can have different traditions .. Such as in Genesis .. where you have two separate creation stories that are different from and contradict each other .. In one story .. YHWH does not appear anywhere. You can tell the different tradition by the word used for God. "God" is the older Tradition "Lord" is the new tradition

Yes the Documentary Hypothesis used to be all the rage and may still is among some scholars, but others seem to have realised that there are things about it which are not true, namely everything.
It was proposed it seems by skeptical scholars and it seems the excuse was that there was no archaeology for Moses of the Exodus or Conquest, so who wrote the Pentateuch and when. And the believers allowed them for a time to trash the Bible in this way with no real evidence, just hypothesis.
And anyway there is a lot more archaeological evidence for Israel in Egypt and the Conquest these day even if many scholars don't accept it.

Other factors are also used to identify one source from another -- Anachronisms for example .. Abraham is said to come from "Ur of the Chaldeans" --- but there would be no Chaldeans for 1000 years. Abe is portrayed as having Camels which would not be domesticated for another 1000 years. .. but someone writing 1300 years after Abraham .. would not know this.

The evidence shows camels domesticated in the area back in the 3rd Millenium BC, even if you want to say that someone lied about camels in Genesis. People are lying about camels these days it seems and they call themselves archaeologists.
And yes there seem to be anachronisms (such as Ramases mentioned in Genesis (Gen 47:11) and in Exodus) but I don't know that Chaldeans is one of those, as their history and origin has not been sussed out properly yet I hear, but it could be true, because there was more than one Ur and someone may have wanted to clarify the place. Actually the Chaldeans it seems are named after Nahor the grandfather of Abraham and this would have been known by Moses presumably.
And the Philistines have been shown to be in the area in the time of the Patriarchs, in Genesis.

You have different traditions -- different covenants .. the Covenant with Abe is different than that with Moses.

Yes ofcourse the covenant of Abraham is different to that of Moses.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Israelites knew the name of the Gods they worshiped..

Of course they did..
..they followed what they learned from their environment .. don't we all.

If Moses and Jesus had not been sent by G-d, preaching the Oneness of G-d,
the world would be quite different.

 

[Sargonski]

No. The DH is all about making distinctions based on the different nams of God. That's what YOU'RE doing inspite of the fact that this method has proven to be a complete fail.



There is no Elohist source. It's all the same God. If you are actually interested in scholarhship, it's time to adapt and move on




No...... 600BC is the latest beginning. Latest. L-A-T-E-S-T. Say it with me, Latest. Good. That's what it says in the screenshot. Here, I'll zoom in for you.

View attachment 78082

That is how archeological and history works. This makes sense. Seriously Think about it. Someone finds evidence for something. What are the odds that they found the first earliest occurance of what ever that thing is? Ummmmm, virtually ZERO.

So, if I'm digging in my back yard and I find an arrow-head, and I get that arrow-head dated to 400CE. There's probably earlier arowheads, but this is the latest beginning for which that I have evidence.



Ummmmm, 5 occurances of El, is not a tradition especially when one of those occurances is Abe correcting Malchi-tzedek.



I understand that El is a common name for divine power. And that is easily confirmed. I also understand that you ignore the overwheling majority of occurances of YHWH in order to tickle yourself with the notion that Abe's God was identical to the canaanite god.




From you? why would I care? I wouldn't want to agree with you. You don't know the language your pretending to be a scholar of. And repeatedly misinforming people, "Oh, btw, everytime the bible says God, it's talking about EL", even though the bible is much more specific than that, and you'd never know.



Nope. All true. The name of the place in Gen 14 is Shalem. The name of the capital city in Israel is Yirushalayim. HUGE difference.

The verb in Exodus 6:3 is reflexive, so, the subject is not the name which is unknown.

Adoni-zedek is not an israelite king

There is no evidence for the god zedek, anyway.





A levite priest.



YHWH.

ויאמר אברם אל־מלך סדם הרמתי ידי אל־יהוה אל עליון קנה שמים וארץ׃
And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up my hand to יהוה, [NOT TO] El Elyon, the possessor of heaven and earth,

You were given loads of Evidence for the God Zedek -- and no Zedek is not a levite priest .. and Genesis is stated to have been written 537 to 330 BC .. 537 being the latest .. 330 being the earliest .. but however you look at it .. it is written no later than 600 BC .

In any case ..forward or reversed ... the YHWH insertions came when the text was being redacted

Or . .. you can just claim that YHWH was lying to Moses when he told him Abe didn't know the name YHWH.

Is there some difficulty understanding what a contradiction is.. trouble understanding that Abraham did not know the name YHWH .. and so that is not the name of the Most High God he worshiped.

So what is it .. was YHWH lying to Moses ?

 

[Sargonski]

We can't believe everything Biblical scholars say.
But redaction seems true.



Yes the Documentary Hypothesis used to be all the rage and may still is among some scholars, but others seem to have realised that there are things about it which are not true, namely everything.
It was proposed it seems by skeptical scholars and it seems the excuse was that there was no archaeology for Moses of the Exodus or Conquest, so who wrote the Pentateuch and when. And the believers allowed them for a time to trash the Bible in this way with no real evidence, just hypothesis.
And anyway there is a lot more archaeological evidence for Israel in Egypt and the Conquest these day even if many scholars don't accept it.



The evidence shows camels domesticated in the area back in the 3rd Millenium BC, even if you want to say that someone lied about camels in Genesis. People are lying about camels these days it seems and they call themselves archaeologists.
And yes there seem to be anachronisms (such as Ramases mentioned in Genesis (Gen 47:11) and in Exodus) but I don't know that Chaldeans is one of those, as their history and origin has not been sussed out properly yet I hear, but it could be true, because there was more than one Ur and someone may have wanted to clarify the place. Actually the Chaldeans it seems are named after Nahor the grandfather of Abraham and this would have been known by Moses presumably.
And the Philistines have been shown to be in the area in the time of the Patriarchs, in Genesis.



Yes ofcourse the covenant of Abraham is different to that of Moses.

The Doc Hypothesis is still all the rage ... You have no clue what you are taling about . and it was never perfect. Certain variations such as the Classical Hypothesis have fallen out of favor.

Actually .. there was no Ur of the Chaldeans at the time of Abraham .. and would not be for 1000 years. This is like saying that Rome had a great empire in 1000 BC .. clueless nonsense on steroids..

Prove your claim that Camels were domesticated in the third millenium ...and when you find a source telling you this you will have found the liar you are looking for.

what do the Philistines have to do with the aforementioned anachronisms .. ?? just lost and talking unrelated nonsense ??

What part of the Question "What was the name Abraham Called his God" did you not undertand .. Have 3 fundamentalists who can't manage the most basic of questions ..... "What is the name of YOUR God"

 

[Muffled]

When I questioned the vicar in my church at the age of 15, that is what he told me.
I asked a whole lot of questions about the trinity, and he gave up and left it at that.


..not another one claiming to be God !

I believe you can ask and get the right answers from me.

I believe that is incorrect. I am claiming God is in me. I know myself well enough to know that I am not God.

 

[Muffled]

You cannot say that something is one and that same something is three at the same time, and still claim to be logical.

I believe that is correct and I do not say that. I say God is one outside the body or inside bodies. God is the same God in NY as He is in Jerusalem. Place does not alter His oneness.

 

[Muffled]

I no longer believe in Jesus or God, and I now believe that if a religious man named Yehoshua (Yeshua/Jesus) existed more than 2,000 years ago in Israel, then he was most likely just an ordinary mortal man and popular religious teacher whose devoted followers embellished the stories about him, and more embellishment and folklore were later added to these stories to make him appear to be more than he actually was. I believe that it's probable that he was simply a well-liked religious teacher whose devoted followers circulated false stories about him in order to make him appear godlike. I also think that it's likely that a few stories about him were copied and adapted from Greek mythology and other ancient pagan religions as well, which predate Christianity and the Bible. In fact, I believe that paganism had a significant impact on the stories about Jesus and Christianity and that Christianity is a copycat religion.

I believe I can't think of any evidence to convince a person to leave the truth of God to believe in fables.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe that is correct and I do not say that. I say God is one outside the body or inside bodies. God is the same God in NY as He is in Jerusalem. Place does not alter His oneness.

And what about the father son and HS? What are they in relationship to this one God?

 

[dybmh]

You were given loads of Evidence for the God Zedek

No... not a single thing other than two names which inserted the word "the god" into the translation.

Malchi-Ha-Ail-Et-Zedek =/= Malchi-Tzedek
Adoni-Ha-Ail-Et-Zedek =/= Adoni-Tzedek

And since the israelites did not adopt this naming convention, it's irrelevant.

If what you're saying is true, then the wiki articels would be Zedek, not Sydyk. I know precision isnt your thing, but it IS actually important.

-- and no Zedek is not a levite priest

Sure he was. That's what's written, there's no actual reasons to say he wasn't.

.. and Genesis is stated to have been written 537 to 330 BC .. 537 being the latest .. 330 being the earliest .. but however you look at it .. it is written no later than 600 BC .

No, if I accept the numbers you have here, 330 is the latest, that's what 537-330, means. Remember BCE has it backwards.
And 537 isn't the earliest, no one knows the actual earliest. 537 would be an estimate, a guess. You're misreading / misunderstanding the actual data. Yes, bloggers, and youtubers get this wrong. And even scholars are not precise sometimes, especially if they're being interviewed by atheists who use leading questions.

The actual precise conclusion that is reached by many scholars is, 537-330 ( post-exile ) is a guess when the torah reached its final form. 230ish is the latest, TAQ. That includes stitching together the various stories into a single unit. Like literally, stitching the parchment together into a scroll. That's all that date means. The stories contained could much much older. No one really knows.

This is, again, in the same wiki article you're quoting. You need to scroll down, and/or read the whole article carefully with some ummmm precision. Also, be careful, because the DH has been debunked. There are no 4 sources, anymore. But this article hasn't been updated to reflect that.

In any case ..forward or reversed ... the YHWH insertions came when the text was being redacted

You don't know that. What are your reasons for that conclusion? I mean besides "someone said that someone said".

Or . .. you can just claim that YHWH was lying to Moses when he told him Abe didn't know the name YHWH.

Exodus 6:3 does not *actually* say that the name was not known. The verb is in the reflexive, meaning the name is not what was not known.

Is there some difficulty understanding what a contradiction is.. trouble understanding that Abraham did not know the name YHWH .. and so that is not the name of the Most High God he worshiped.

Is there some trouble understanding that verbs have a subject? Subject-predicate. And the name is not the subject of that verb?
Is there trouble understanding that the original text didn't have punctuation? And punctuation changes the meaning?
Is there trouble understanding that people desire Judaism to be polytheistic, it's scandalous, and some people are scandal jockies? They love spreading dirt? It's like tabloid journalism.

So what is it .. was YHWH lying to Moses ?

No, of course not. Using a translation which incorporates the meaning of the words as brought by people who know the language:

​

וארא אל־אברהם אל־יצחק ואל־יעקב באל שדי ושמי יהוה לא נודעתי להם׃​

​

And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as a god almighty, but I swear, my eternal power, was I not known to them.​

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You were given loads of Evidence for the God Zedek

Tzedek is simply the Hebrew word for righteous. For example, the man who was King of Salem was also known as Melchitzedek, or righteous king. Although God is certainly righteous, I have never heard of any God that goes by the NAME of Zedek.

 

[Sargonski]

Tzedek is simply the Hebrew word for righteous. For example, the man who was King of Salem was also known as Melchitzedek, or righteous king. Although God is certainly righteous, I have never heard of any God that goes by the NAME of Zedek

If you havn't heard of the God of Righteous and Justice Friend .. then let me introduce you to Sydyk/(Sedek) Patron God of Jerusalem during the time of Abraham

 

[Sargonski]

No... not a single thing other than two names which inserted the word "the god" into the translation.

Malchi-Ha-Ail-Et-Zedek =/= Malchi-Tzedek
Adoni-Ha-Ail-Et-Zedek =/= Adoni-Tzedek

And since the israelites did not adopt this naming convention, it's irrelevant.

If what you're saying is true, then the wiki articels would be Zedek, not Sydyk. I know precision isnt your thing, but it IS actually important.



Sure he was. That's what's written, there's no actual reasons to say he wasn't.



No, if I accept the numbers you have here, 330 is the latest, that's what 537-330, means. Remember BCE has it backwards.
And 537 isn't the earliest, no one knows the actual earliest. 537 would be an estimate, a guess. You're misreading / misunderstanding the actual data. Yes, bloggers, and youtubers get this wrong. And even scholars are not precise sometimes, especially if they're being interviewed by atheists who use leading questions.

The actual precise conclusion that is reached by many scholars is, 537-330 ( post-exile ) is a guess when the torah reached its final form. 230ish is the latest, TAQ. That includes stitching together the various stories into a single unit. Like literally, stitching the parchment together into a scroll. That's all that date means. The stories contained could much much older. No one really knows.

This is, again, in the same wiki article you're quoting. You need to scroll down, and/or read the whole article carefully with some ummmm precision. Also, be careful, because the DH has been debunked. There are no 4 sources, anymore. But this article hasn't been updated to reflect that.

View attachment 78091





You don't know that. What are your reasons for that conclusion? I mean besides "someone said that someone said".



Exodus 6:3 does not *actually* say that the name was not known. The verb is in the reflexive, meaning the name is not what was not known.



Is there some trouble understanding that verbs have a subject? Subject-predicate. And the name is not the subject of that verb?
Is there trouble understanding that the original text didn't have punctuation? And punctuation changes the meaning?
Is there trouble understanding that people desire Judaism to be polytheistic, it's scandalous, and some people are scandal jockies? They love spreading dirt? It's like tabloid journalism.



No, of course not. Using a translation which incorporates the meaning of the words as brought by people who know the language:

​

וארא אל־אברהם אל־יצחק ואל־יעקב באל שדי ושמי יהוה לא נודעתי להם׃​

​

And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as a god almighty, but I swear, my eternal power, was I not known to them.​

Your claim that Sydyk is not Zedek is simple ignorance friend .. you don't know how the name game is played in the ancient world .. nor about linguistics or language ... so let us not pretend otherwise.

Exocus 6:3 does not "actually" say that the name was not known

I never said Exodus 6:3 stated that the Name YHWH was not known - so why are you pretending I did - creating a stupid strawman fallacy -- because you can not deal with .... nor underatand what it is that YHWH did Say.

Abe didn't know his God by the name YHWH .. so for the 10th time ---- by What name did Abraham know his God ? -- and quoting from scripture where the redactor substituted this name for the name YHWH .. is not helping your case .. nor does this answer the question.

Would you like a Hint Friend ? --- What does Modern Biblical and Theological Scholarship Say is the name of the Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. the one found in Psalm 82 .. where YHWH stands in judgement of the other Sons of God in the Divine Council of EL ?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If you havn't heard of the God of Righteous and Justice Friend .. then let me introduce you to Sydyk/(Sedek) Patron God of Jerusalem during the time of Abraham

What document or book are you using as your source for this information? It's certainly not Genesis.

 

[Brian2]

The Doc Hypothesis is still all the rage ... You have no clue what you are taling about . and it was never perfect. Certain variations such as the Classical Hypothesis have fallen out of favor.

Well plainly there are people who still think the Documentary Hypothesis is wonderful and they don't listen to those who say it is crap and who say that archaeology for Israel in Egypt and the Conquest is good and that Moses was a real person who probably wrote most of the Pentateuch.

Actually .. there was no Ur of the Chaldeans at the time of Abraham .. and would not be for 1000 years. This is like saying that Rome had a great empire in 1000 BC .. clueless nonsense on steroids..

It's not really like saying Rome had a great empire 1000BC. It could be more like saying that this Ur was the one that the Chaldeans came from.

Prove your claim that Camels were domesticated in the third millenium ...and when you find a source telling you this you will have found the liar you are looking for.

Israeli archeologists’ discovery suggests the Bible is wrong about camels

New archeological evidence is throwing cold water on the biblical image of Abraham, Jacob and Joseph riding camels through the desert. A team of Israeli archaeologists has studied the oldest-known …

www.nydailynews.com

After reading this you might wonder how finding bones at mining sites and carbon dating them can tell us the earliest time camels were in the ANE. If anything it tells us when camels were used for mining at those mines, that is all. But the study is understandable since it comes from Tel Aviv University, a stronghold of Biblical Minimalism.

Archaeology on the Back of a Camel – Israel My Glory

israelmyglory.org

And from this site: Camels in the Biblical World | Denver Seminary
Now, there is a lot of debate as to whether Abram/Abraham could have existed at all, etc. Leaving this aside for the moment and focusing exclusively on the question of whether camels were domesticated before the 10th century BCE, this question can be answered unequivocally in the affirmative for the following reasons: 1. Two-humped camels were domesticated by the middle of the 3rd millennium at the latest in regions east of the Zagros mountains; 2. Domestic two-humped camels have been known in Mesopotamia from the end of the third / beginning of the 2nd millennium onwards; 3. Camels were not primarily bred to ‘stay at home,’ but were used to cover vast distances in trade and transport. The end of the 3rd / beginning of the 2nd millennium BCE is known as a period with many long- distance interregional trade contacts. After all, there could well have been individuals that wandered around between Mesopotamia, the Levant, and Egypt with their sheep, cattle, and donkeys, and who had also acquired some two-humped camels in Mesopotamia, directly or via intermediaries. However, as such an individual (or any pastoralist taking advantage of these wonderful animals) did not exploit many camels in hard labor in a specific area over an extended period of time (such as in copper mining), nor engage in intensive overland trade with other regions from a particular location (cf. the finds of Tell Jemmeh), finding any camel remains would be very unlikely.“

Richard S. Hess, Ph.D.
Distinguished Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages
Denver Seminary
October 2022

Did Camels Exist in Biblical Times?

Did camels exist in Biblical times? Some Biblical texts, such as Genesis 12 and 24, claim that Abraham owned camels.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

The Date of Camel Domestication in the Ancient Near East

Joomla! - the dynamic portal engine and content management system

biblearchaeology.org

Read Genesis and see that Abraham was given camels from the rich king of Egypt. That does not mean that domesticated camels were owned by everyone.
Why would anyone want to go against the evidence and say camels in Genesis are an anachronism? And I think it does come down to that, wanting to deny the evidence.

what do the Philistines have to do with the aforementioned anachronisms .. ?? just lost and talking unrelated nonsense ??

I'm sorry, I thought that since you had brought in camels that I could bring in something also, another thing that is called an anachronism but is not. Something that shows the minimalist theories about the Bible and how wrong it is, are not true.

What part of the Question "What was the name Abraham Called his God" did you not undertand .. Have 3 fundamentalists who can't manage the most basic of questions ..... "What is the name of YOUR God"

In the Bible my God is called YHWH, often translated as Yahwey or Jehovah.

 

[Sargonski]

Of course it's a good method. If you think they got names wrong,

"It has also been conjectured that a related deity named or titled "Tzedek" (i.e. "righteousness") was worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem"

Conjecture. Pre-israelite.

So, how is this even relevant to Zadok, again? Like I said, I researched this myself, and everything is based on assumptions that sometimes when tzedek is in the Hebrew bible, the text is actually speaking about the other god. But none of that makes sense, because Isaiah and Jeremiah are repeatedly rebuking the Jewish people for straying after other gods. So it makes zero sense in context to think that the gates of righteousness are somehow the gates of Sedek, the god. It's completely out of character.

Your making up nonsense -- I never said anyone got names wrong --- can't seem to understand what is being said to you -- We have two different lineages.. lineages that contradict each other. Chronicles was written 500 years after King David appointed the HIgh Priest of AdoniSydyk to High Priest of the Temple of YHWH , and - unlike you - they noticed a problem .. as while you may not know of the God Zedek .. they did.. and while you don't know what the Male Prostitute in the Temple of YHWH were for .. They did.. and while you don't know what the High Place out back was for ... and the Asherah Idol .. They did .. and so they made up a levite lineage --"connection"

You then compound the nonsense in mind bending desperation .. claiming Prophets speaking after Israel is destroyed .. blaming the destruction on worshiping other Gods.

????????? --- The overall point being made is that Israel worshiped other Gods ... you then cry out that Isaiah stating Israel worshiped other Gods .. "TELLING YOU" that Israel worshiped other Gods .. as if this somehow proves that Israel was not worshiping other Gods .. that the point makes no sense at all on the basis that the Prophets said that Israel worshiped other Gods.

This is horribly fallacious mind bending circular silliness Friend .. What part of The Israelites were raging Pagans --- as told to you by the Prophets you just quoted .. do you not understand ?

 

[Sargonski]

What document or book are you using as your source for this information? It's certainly not Genesis.

Indeed it is Genesis -- Do you not know the Story of MelchiZedek -- the Canaanite Priest King ? - how this High Priest and Abe Sacrifice and give Praise to the Supreme God El " El Supreme" Chief God of both the Canaanite and Phoenician Pantheon. and everyone elses Pantheon's - Babylonians- Assyrians - .. Everyone regognized EL -- or some cognate of EL -- as head of the Divine Pantheon.

NO ONE -- in Abe's time was Monotheistic .. nor were the Israelites .. EVER - Monotheistic .. Do you Understand .. NEVER -- EVER ?
'
Abe's idea was to Worship only One God .. out of the Many while still believing in others .. worship only one - Monolateralism. And the name of this God is EL .. the Most High - EL Elyon -- having epiphets such as "God Supreme" El-Olium and a whole bunch others .. that you will recognize and associate with YHWH -- Creator - Eternal One - Lives on a mountain in a Tent -- God of the Patriarchs --

but it is not YHWH's attributes being associated with EL --- It is EL's Attributes who are later associated with his Sons .. YHWH being one of those sons .. as revealed by a proper translation of Deut 32:8 = LXX as opposed to the MT Translation found in the Bible you use .. broadened with a proper knowledge of Biblical History / Archaeology . and those wonderful Texts from Ugarit .. which tells us what everyone else around the Israelites belived .. in great detail .. and I think they have only translated 10% of the Texts that were found..

U Understand what is being said here ? YHWH One of the Son's of El .. Sons of the Supreme One Psalm 82:6 YHWH -- this hymn singing about how YHWH defeats all the other sons -- becomes Chief over the Earth .. Or.. that was the Israelite belief when the State War God was winning .. but also the belief of every other Nation .. are recorded in the ancient Sumerian tales EL and the other Gods end up giving Marduk the Prize --- for defeating Tiamat -- and the other Gods .. becoming the MOst High -- over the earth.. keeping in mind they all still believed EL was Chief of the Heavenly council.

and regardless of what you think ... cause what you think doesn't matter -- weigh in on the scale -- to what the Israelite thought .. cause that is what they thought- Believed.

Surely you have noticed that YHWH spends a whole lot of time battling the other Gods -- the "Baals" - El having 70 sons -- each alloted a Nation .. as per the number in the Table of Nations --- "Go Figure" - YHWHs portion - Israel. Deut 32:8 - Proper Reading

a far more exiting story than the one you are used to ... kind of makes the Bible come Alive -- but -- unfortunately, YHWH ends up losing the Battle .. Marduk -- ends up the winner Babylon .. Judahites and Bejaminites toasted .. the place where his name resides - kaput YHWHs finished.

A century later -- under Persia - those remaining In Judah -- as was normal practice for the Persians .. let folks run them selves .. have their own Culture - Gods .. just keep the tribute comming in...

this is where the remnent Jews find monotheism -- a tenet of one of the main Persian Religions -- Zoroastrianism .. and thus a new God was Created --- one not so anthropomorphic -- far more etherial .. primordial .. distant -- like Ahura Mazda..

OH .. Really ? You mean to tell me there was a God Just like the new and improved YHWH in this Persian Religion ?

So as the Marcionites would preach -- that Nasty OT YHWH God was the demiurge .. the Dark side of the force.. the God of Jesus the Light.

now tell me .. Who Was MelchiZEDEK ???? .. as Jesus is a Priest in this Order .. Not that of the Levites .. and What does Hiram have to do with all this ? buddy of King Solomon .. shagged at least one of his daughters no doubt ..

Jesus - "A Priest" in this Order .. and order not of the Aaronian line .. -- not serving the same God either perhaps .. the perhaps I say jokingly.

ZEDEK is WHO .. Twin Gods actually .. forming a Trinity - El - Sydyk - Misor --- Justice - Righteousness Misor - Wikipedia

and what does Salem mean this Priest King of the City of Peace this .. Prince of the city of Peace ----> MelchiZedek

Jesus .. A Priest .. forever in the Order of MelchiSydyk

.

 

[dybmh]

Your claim that Sydyk is not Zedek is simple ignorance friend .. you don't know how the name game is played in the ancient world .. nor about linguistics or language ... so let us not pretend otherwise.

Ummmm, I do know how the names are constructed, and taking a name that is constructed from 2 words, and then adding 2 more words that aren't actually there is reducing the precision in half. That's just simple math. Original version? 2 words. The fabricated version, 4 words. 2 compared to 4 is 50% fabrication.

You are correct to consider it playing games though. That is true. Just playing games with names.

Exocus 6:3 does not "actually" say that the name was not known

I never said Exodus 6:3 stated that the Name YHWH was not known - so why are you pretending I did - creating a stupid strawman fallacy -- because you can not deal with .... nor underatand what it is that YHWH did Say.

Sure you did: multiple times.

YHWH was lying to Moses when he told him Abe didn't know the name YHWH.

There it is. You said the name was not known by Abe, but the verb in Exodus 6:3 is reflexive meaning it wasn't the name that was unknown. Abe knew the name, obviously, because Abe uses that name multiple times. M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E TIMES. Muuuuuuuuuultiple times. In Gen 14, he corrects Malchi-tzedek. In Gen 15 he speaks to YHWH using that name.

Abe didn't know his God by the name YHWH

YES HE DID. It's in the text multiple times.

.. so for the 10th time ---- by What name did Abraham know his God ?

YHWH. That's the name he uses. I have given the examples again and again YOU need to bring examples of Abe using the name EL. I just did a quick search, I didn't find any. Abe doesn't use the name EL. The only-only example you have is in Gen 14, but he's not speaking to God, and he qualifies it with YHWH as the primary name.

-- and quoting from scripture where the redactor substituted this name for the name YHWH .. is not helping your case .. nor does this answer the question.

Of course it answers the question. YOU need actual evidence of Abe using the name EL. Just saying, well, "I heard that EL was Abe's god, and of course it was cause I want to be" doesn't work at all.

Would you like a Hint Friend ? --- What does Modern Biblical and Theological Scholarship Say is the name of the Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon ..

Who cares? Abe rejected that.

the one found in Psalm 82 .. where YHWH stands in judgement of the other Sons of God in the Divine Council of EL ?

Who wrote that Psalm???? It has nothing to do with Abe. And BTW, that pagan pantheon nonsense doesn't work in Psalm 82. But you won't do the actual word for word analysis to show it's false, and I doubt you would know how to do it in the first place.

I brought you an article proving it was false. You wouldn't read it. So here it is again. There is NO PAYWALL, just use a google login. you have to click on the login button, then look for the login with google option.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23488222?read-now=1&seq=19#page_scan_tab_contents

If you think there is a pagan pantheon, fill in the blanks with your preferred translation, and let's look for contradictions. There's 7 blanks, it'll take all of 3 minutes.

מזמור לאסף אלהים נצב בעדת־אל בקרב אלהים ישפט׃
A Psalm of Asaph. אלהים [_________________] stands in the congregation of אל [_______________]; he judges among the אלהים[__________].

עד־מתי תשפטו־עול ופני רשעים תשאו־סלה׃
How long will you judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

שפטו־דל ויתום עני ורש הצדיקו׃
Do justice to the poor and the orphan; vindicate the afflicted and needy.

פלטו־דל ואביון מיד רשעים הצילו׃
Save the poor and needy; rescue them from the hand of the wicked.

לא ידעו ולא יבינו בחשכה יתהלכו ימוטו כל־מוסדי ארץ׃
They do not know, nor will they understand; they walk in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

אני אמרתי אלהים אתם ובני עליון כלכם׃
I have said, You are אלהים[_______________]; and all of you are sons of עליון[_______________].

אכן כאדם תמותון וכאחד השרים תפלו׃
Nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.

קומה אלהים שפטה הארץ כי־אתה תנחל בכל־הגוים׃
Arise, O ,אלהים[___________________] judge the earth; for to you shall all nations belong.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Indeed it is Genesis -- Do you not know the Story of MelchiZedek -- the Canaanite Priest King ? -

I basically skipped your long tangent into other subjects. Let's try to stay very focused, and please try to be succinct.

I already noted the story of the priest king Melchizedek in my last post, so I'm not really sure why you are asking me it I know that story.

What I need from you is a quote of the verse from within that story where GOD is referred to as Zedek, which is what you originally claimed. That should take you one sentence to reply.

 

[Sargonski]

I basically skipped your long tangent into other subjects. Let's try to stay very focused, and please try to be succinct.

I already noted the story of the priest king Melchizedek in my last post, so I'm not really sure why you are asking me it I know that story.

What I need from you is a quote of the verse from within that story where GOD is referred to as Zedek, which is what you originally claimed. That should take you one sentence to reply.

I have never claimed that the God of Abraham is referred to as Zedek. You lost the thread somewhere .. go back and read what you skipped for enlightenment.