What a sad show of deceit and self deception -- you deflect from backing up your claim about Israelite Monotheism by changing the topic ..
No, I gave you evidence, and explained the error in your objection. Temple Tel Arad, multiple strata excavated, artifacts going back to 400+ years prior to Josiah. Israelites were practicing monotheism per archeological evidence. It doesn't get clearer than that.
We can discuss this in more detail after you admit you have zero verses supporting the claim Abe's god was EL.
then refuse to back up your claim unless I admit a falsehood - and back up your lie that you have given you Zero verses.
I think you meant, "backup a lie that I [ Sagonski ] have given you [ Dybmh ] zero verses.
It's true, you have given none. zero, zipperooni, the zilchiest.
. There are plenty of verses supporting the Claim that Abe's god was EL ..
But you can't bring a single one. Why is that?
hence why Theological and Biblical Scholarship claim that the God of the Patriarchs was EL
No.... you are assuming that's the reason. It's actually NOT the reason that those scholars claimed that. If that were the reason, you would be able to bring those verses.
As I've said, the *actual* reason for that theory, hypothesis, notion, was fromt he DH trying to shoe-horn 4 distinct sources onto a text that doesn't actually support that. And that DH was hached by people who were ignorant of the meaning of these different names. They couldn't get beyond it. Some of them, maybe a good number were ignorant Jews who had assimilated into German society and so never learned the deeper mystical concepts that go along with the Torah.
The rabbis discourage assimilation, and encourage following the Torah's laws. These people wanted to assimilate and didn't want to follow the laws. So, these people distrust the rabbis, they don't like it. That's basically where it all begins. Then comes Reform Judaism, and the DH, and the rest is history. But in order to split the Torah based on the divine names, many complications arose. And in order to address these complications, more and more sources had to be imagined. And then redactors, and then redactors to the redactors. And chapters were split verse to verse. Verse 9 is source Q6b, and verse 10 is Q6a. And verse 11 needed to be split in half, the first part belongs, the second part doesn't... it's a total mess.
Eventually, the DH became so convoluted, after about 100+ years, it could not be defended any longer. There are no more distinct 4 sources. There isn't an E source which speaks about maybe-maybe an EL worship. None of that works. The Torah is considered an ideological unit, with A God. One God. A story which rejects polytheism.
So, this idea about Abe comes from the DH, not from verses, not from evidence. It literally comes from ignorance, and a desire to assimilate, and a rejection rabbinic thought, translation, grammar rules, the original language, everything. And then rewrites the story imagining what it
could have been if there were originally 4 sources. And after 100+ years a lot of work has gone into that desire to reject orthodox Judaism. And now, a lot of its supporters are needing to eat some crow. and those scholars who wrote and assumed and published based on layers and layers of assumptions... yeah, they're needing to admit all of that is a bust. And that's what happens when so-called scholarship leans to heavily on layer after layer of cascading assumptions. If the foundation collapses... y'all need to start over.
I've known for years the DH was doomed. And it feels good to have been correct about it all along.
It's the epitomy of arguing from ignorance, and revisionist history. That's the reason for the Abe worshipping EL theory. There are NO good reasons to believe it. If there are scholars who are still adherents to this theory they have not been informed of the disaster of the DH. Some of them might be fans of pagan theology, I've seen that. A scholar talks lovingly about all the female pagan goddesses and wants the israelites to particiapte in that, and sees evidence for it everywhere. Not a biggie. But they can't claim the leadership was doing it too. And... they don't.
Introduced YHWH appeared as "EL Ail Shaddai" in Genesis 17
Fixed it for ya.
Abe doesn't call his god EL, in Gen 17 does he? It's another fail.
It literally says it was YHWH at the very beginning of the chapter. This is approaching epic fail territory.
YHWH appeared to him as Ail Shaddai, not EL Shaddai. Abe never gave a name when speaking to God in that chapter. What IS happening in that chapter is Abraham is shocked, and disbelieving, but circumcises himself anyway. The type of revelation the, let's say, the degree of the revelation is accurately and consistently described by the name Elohim and HaElohim in that chapter.
If it was just 1 name ALLLLLLLLLL the time those details would be lost. But pagan folk, don't really get that. And it's natural to envision gods as humans, and hearing these different names, thinking they're different gods. But the different names bring details about the revelation.
Anyway, Abe, never uses a name in that Chapter. In fact, he's a bit impetuous and lacking faith. "Will I at my age actually father a child? What about Ishmael?" he asks. So it makes sense he's not speaking using YHWH's name or any name here. That would increase the disrespect.
So, there's no EL, there is only the names YHWH ( primary, given first ), Ail Shaddai and Elohim in this chapter. And Abe uses niether of those. This is also a fail. Unless you can show me Abe *actually* using the name EL in this chapter, I'll add it to the other failures Psalms 82, and Deut 32.
and in Genesis 14 when MelChiZedek and Abe are worshiping El Supreme -- which you were given previously.
You gave it previously, and it was rejected because Abe does not use the name EL. Abe isn't worshipping EL, he says it was YHWH. As *I* have given you many times previously.
And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up my hand to YHWH, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth.
Go and check your crappy PDF, but ignore the transliteration.
Understand. Abe doesn't want any of Sodom's spoils. These aren't good people. He only did it to rescue Lot. The king of Sodom brings in a priest from Shalem. Abe is blessed and recieves a tithe from this priest. Maybe the king of Sodom is *trying* to say thank-you by finding someone with similar beliefs. But Abe is clear, I raised by hand to
YHWH, the supreme god posessor of heaven and earth. Abe does not want there to be any confusion in the mind of the king of Sodom about who's his god.
But.... when Abe is in private and has a vision, and is maybe shocked and questioning, he doesn't use any name at all. And that makes sense.
Now enough of the lies deception and deflection
No.... YOU still need to bring verses supporting the claim that Abe worshipped EL before we can move on.
You
can say that YHWH appeared as "Ail Shaddai" to Abe in Gen 17. But you cannot say that Abe was worshipping EL, or even that Abe was worshipping Ail Shaddai. All that can be said is YHWH appeared as Ail Shaddai, and was heard as HaElohim, Abe doubted and questioned, but obeyed anyway circumcising himself and his household immediately after rec'ing the command.
That's it.
So, there's still no verses supporting this claim that Abe worshipped a god named EL.
Psalm 82? fail
Deut 32? fail
Gen 14? Mega-super-duper-fail
Gen 17? fail
. Defend your claim that the Israelites during Solomon's time were monotheists .. did not believe in nor worship Gods other than YHWH .. tell us what the Asherah Pole was for .. if not the worship of the Goddess Asherah .. YHWHs consort .. and the purpose of the male prostitutes.
Already answered. I would be happy to repeat and elaborate once you have either brought actual verses to support this claim that Abe's god was EL or admit you have NONE.
Psalm 82? fail
Deut 32? fail
Gen 14? Mega-super-duper-fail
Gen 17? fail
