Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I’m disappointed that you seem to be misconstruing everything I post. If that’s what you want to believe then that’s your right and no matter how much I tell you it’s untrue you will insist in having that mistrust and suspicion. I am a person who speaks from the heart not scripted or planned or using any sort of tactics. Actually on first reading your post I was shocked. As I said before, to me it’s all about ingrained prejudices which are no good in our world.

What have I misconstrued?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But according to you, it wasn't "the Cause of Christ" that was spread all over the world; it was a corrupted version... no?

No. Initially a religion is pure and untainted, but over centuries man made doctrines replace the original teachings and gradually the original religion recedes into the background and becomes more the religion of the clergy. When this happens religion is then renewed by God. That is why Christ spoke of His return. If His religion had remained perfect then there would be no reason for Him to come back.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What have I misconstrued?

Judge me how it pleases you. I can’t change your mind so I’m not going to try. Believe what you want.

 

[Vinayaka]

Isn't that what's going on here?

Step 1: tell your mark that you accept their religion's teachings. Build some affinity and get them to put their guard down.

Step 2: argue that you believe the "true" teachings of their religion rather than the modern corrupted version. Try to convince them of Baha'i beliefs without telling your mark that they're Baha'i beliefs. Since they now accept you as on the same side, hopefully they'll take it as theological debate among allies and not as attempted conversion.

Step 3: pull back the curtain and tell them that the beliefs they now accept are more closely aligned with the Baha'i faith than their own faith. If you've already convinced them of the truth of Baha'i teachings, then they should now be open to conversion.

If I'm misinterpreting something here, please tell me what.

This summarises the Baha'i position really well. Personally, I've totally lowered my expectations for any constructive discussion. RF rule number 11 - when discussing anything with those who constantly insist they are right, and you are wrong, don't stay long.

 

[Rival]

No. Initially a religion is pure and untainted, but over centuries man made doctrines replace the original teachings and gradually the original religion recedes into the background and becomes more the religion of the clergy. When this happens religion is then renewed by God. That is why Christ spoke of His return. If His religion had remained perfect then there would be no reason for Him to come back.

Err, no this isn't what the Second Coming is about.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What do you think it’s about?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Judge me how it pleases you. I can’t change your mind so I’m not going to try. Believe what you want.

So you don't have anything specific. Fair enough.

 

[F1fan]

Because religion, including Baha'i, is a very divisive and competitive business. As the Baha'i claim their own version of truth it means Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and any other religious tradition MUST be wrong. Until there is an actual truth behind religion there will be no consistency or unity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. Initially a religion is pure and untainted, but over centuries man made doctrines replace the original teachings and gradually the original religion recedes into the background and becomes more the religion of the clergy. When this happens religion is then renewed by God. That is why Christ spoke of His return. If His religion had remained perfect then there would be no reason for Him to come back.

This sounds a lot like the Mormon teaching of "the Great Apostasty," except the Mormons are open about the fact they consider the "apostate" churches' teachings to be incorrect.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Because religion, including Baha'i, is a very divisive and competitive business. As the Baha'i claim their own version of truth it means Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and any other religious tradition MUST be wrong..

Almighty God is judge of us all..
He knows why we say what we say, and He is the Best of All Judges.

Religions are not necessarily "wrong", but creeds may be.
People who emphasise creeds, over moral values, often do so for tribal reasons etc.
It is purely a test. We are all free to believe what we like .. we do not HAVE to conform to a certain creed.

If Christians prefer to worship Jesus, a man, then God knows why.

I know, I know ..many Christians say Yahweh was Jesus all along.
Illogical, proclaimed Spock!

 

[CG Didymus]

Krishna and Buddha were not prophets and not messengers. Teachers? Yes. Prophets or messengers? No. Stop trying to lump dharmic figures into your Abrahamic paradigm.

Thank you.

I have yet to find a quote from Baha'u'llah that says that Krishna and the Buddha were manifestations. I get the feeling that they were later additions by Abdul Baha' and Shoghi Effendi to tie in a "prophet/manifestation" from all the major religions. But, something else I think they overlooked was if they are going to include Krishna, why not the previous incarnations also?

 

[CG Didymus]

How is this relevant to the topic? Is this thread yet another failed attempt to unite all religions as one?

I think that is exactly what Baha'is are attempting. If they can get people to believe that all the past religions are one, then the next step is for them to accept the Baha'i prophet as being the fulfillment of their religion. Then... we can all join hands and live happily ever after under Baha'i laws and teachings. Which maybe a good thing... but, maybe not. Like the other part of this thread. If those Born-again Christians are right, then the Baha'i Faith too is a false religion, and it is just Satan trying to fool people and get them to deny Jesus as the one and only savior.

To me, I'm okay with all religions having some truth... and some weird beliefs... and that maybe those teachings didn't come from a God but came from spiritual people who built their beliefs around what they saw as true. Who knows? But I do believe that all the religions are different, and that for the people that believe in them, they work just fine.

 

[CG Didymus]

You mean except the obviously false Paganisms, like Kemeticism, M.E. Paganisms (Sumerian, Canaanite, Hittite etc.), Hellenismos, Religio Romana... happily we're not worthy

Yes, obviously not them. They are all filled with superstitious beliefs and false Gods that can't be proven real. Not like all the "true" religions.

But really, I think that probably even those religions can be tied to into the others and kind of show an evolution of religious thought and beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

They are valid for the people who follow them.

Again, I bring up the Aztec religion. It was valid for them. And it worked for them. Every time a person was sacrificed, their Gods blessed them.

 

[CG Didymus]

They are valid for the people who follow them.

Hmmm? How about this religion that worshipped the god Baal? Valid to the people who believe in them? Sure, but some religions gotta be just plain false don't they?

The account of Elijah and the prophets of Baal is recorded in 1 Kings 18. After Israel had gone more than three years without rain as a judgment for their idolatry, the prophet Elijah confronts the evil king Ahab and challenges him to a spiritual showdown. The king was to have all Israel gather at Mt. Carmel, along with the 450 prophets of the false god Baal and the 400 prophets of the false goddess Asherah (verse 19).​

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On Mt. Carmel, Elijah said to the people of Israel, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him” (1 Kings 18:21). The people remained noncommittal at that point. Elijah then challenged the prophets of Baal to prepare a bull as an offering for their god—Elijah would do the same—with this catch: they could light no fire on their altar. The God who answered with fire from the sky would be considered the true God (verses 22–25).​

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The people agreed that this was a good plan, and the prophets of Baal went first. The pagan prophets cried out and danced around their altar from morning till noon with no answer from Baal. Elijah began to mock them, saying, “Shout louder! . . . Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened” (1 Kings 18:27).​

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So the prophets of Baal “shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice” (1 Kings 18:28–29). Despite hours of effort, nothing happened. The historian’s comment hints at the emptiness of Baal-worship: “There was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention” (verse 29).​

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Elijah then called the people to him as he repaired the altar of the Lord. He used twelve stones and dug a trench around the altar. He then placed wood on the altar and laid the cut pieces of the bull on it. Elijah then had the people douse the altar with twelve large jars of water. The water soaked the sacrifice and the wood and filled the trench (1 Kings 18:30–35).​

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Once the sacrifice was ready, Elijah prayed, “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again” (1 Kings 18:36–37). Then God did what Baal could never do: the fire of the LORD fell from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust, “and also licked up the water in the trench” (verse 38). The people of Israel bowed down and declared the Lord as God (verse 39).​

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Elijah then commanded the people to put the prophets of Baal to death, in keeping with God’s command in Exodus 22:20. Following this event, the Lord finally ended the drought and sent rain upon the land (1 Kings 18:45).​

 

[CG Didymus]

Because religions have doctrines and theology matters. We can't just rally around some vague moral values while disagreeing on the fundamentals of what God is and what He wants, what proper worship should look like, and so on.

That's the thing... Baha'is take very basic and general beliefs and say, "You see... They teach the same things like love and kindness." Then they ignore or find ways around the doctrinal differences.

 

[CG Didymus]

By spiritual teachings I mean the virtues not doctrines created later by the church. There is no mention in the Bible about the trinity. That is a man made or clergy made idea not taught by Christ and definitely nowhere in the Bible.

I doubt you will answer me, but Baha'is deny the physical resurrection of Jesus. That is something stated plainly in all four gospels. Jesus, in one account says to touch him and see that he has flesh and bone and is not a ghost. In Acts it says that Jesus showed himself to be alive by many proofs.

Made up? A lie? A hoax? I could believe that. But it is what the NT says. It is not something added in later by the early Church leaders. Yet, Baha'is say "No" that it isn't true. That the resurrection was only symbolic and was a spiritual resurrection. Here is Abdul Baha's interpretation...

We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.​

 

[CG Didymus]

I think this is just another passive aggressive Baha'i thread directed towards Christians because we won't accept your alleged "messengers" and give up our religion. You're going to have to get over it. Christ is God Almighty; add-ons are unnecessary when you have God Incarnate as the focus of your religion.

Those of us that aren't Christians all have our reasons not to believe it. But for the Baha'is they say they do believe it. They believe Christianity is a true, God-revealed religion and Jesus was a true manifestation of God. Then they go and make changes to make Christianity fit into their beliefs. No Satan, no real hell, no resurrection, no inherited or original sin, which means that Jesus really didn't die to pay some sin-debt owed to God. Oh, and that original sin of Adam disobeying God? Well, that can't be, because Baha'u'llah says that Adam was a manifestation of God just like Jesus.

 

[F1fan]

Almighty God is judge of us all..

I’m not convinced any gods exist. You believers can’t show us your gods exist outside of your imagination.

He knows why we say what we say, and He is the Best of All Judges.

Not doing a very good job of it. At best it’s an absent god.

Religions are not necessarily "wrong", but creeds may be.
People who emphasise creeds, over moral values, often do so for tribal reasons etc.
It is purely a test. We are all free to believe what we like .. we do not HAVE to conform to a certain creed

It’s curious why believers think they need religion at all, as if they are incapable of managing their own lives.

If Christians prefer to worship Jesus, a man, then God knows why.

Because religion doesn’t have to make any sense.

I know, I know ..many Christians say Yahweh was Jesus all along.
Illogical, proclaimed Spock!

That’s religion at work, including your version.

 

[CG Didymus]

Isn't that what's going on here?

Step 1: tell your mark that you accept their religion's teachings. Build some affinity and get them to put their guard down.

Step 2: argue that you believe the "true" teachings of their religion rather than the modern corrupted version. Try to convince them of Baha'i beliefs without telling your mark that they're Baha'i beliefs. Since they now accept you as on the same side, hopefully they'll take it as theological debate among allies and not as attempted conversion.

Step 3: pull back the curtain and tell them that the beliefs they now accept are more closely aligned with the Baha'i faith than their own faith. If you've already convinced them of the truth of Baha'i teachings, then they should now be open to conversion.

If I'm misinterpreting something here, please tell me what.

Yes, put some doubts into their heads. "Is Jesus really God? He never said he was, and in fact he denied it. You know it was the Church leaders that invented the concept of the Trinity. It's not in the Bible. But what is in the Bible is that Jesus said that he has many things to tell you but you can't bear them know, But when he, the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. Guess what? I believed the spirit of truth has come. Let me tell you more...."