Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Sonofason]

The Bible got nearly everything wrong, starting from Genesis. It got the time frame wrong, it got the order wrong, it got the causes and consequences wrong, the shape of the earth, the nature of the "firmament" and the "heavens", the origin of humanity .... just about every single thing the Bible claims about the world is completely, mind-bogglingly wrong.

Lets stop there.
You say the Bible got the time frame wrong. Now it seems to me that you are making a fairly bold claim here. I believe this would be a good time for you to be more clear. Exactly what time frame are you referring to when you say the Bible got it wrong? And then I will show you why you are wrong.

And then you can be more specific as to the particular order that you claim the Bible has gotten wrong. And then I will show you why you are wrong. Then you can be more specific with the causes that you claim the Bible has gotten wrong. And I will again show you why you are wrong. And then we can discuss the shape of the earth, the nature of the firmament, the heavens, and the origin of humanity.

 

[9Westy9]

Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Peace upon you also

Lack of evidence or lack of reason to believe would probably be the most common reasons

Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people?

it varies from person to person. Personally I identify as a humanist

 

[Brickjectivity]

Primarily the reason for doubt is that humans do all the talking and doing....

Particularly when there is all kind of talk about why you should believe whoever is talking. Like God is going to talk to them but not to you. Its doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Shad]

:eyeroll:
Please don't ever take a job where your in a position of counseling..
The "bad past, hurt by a mean theist" reason for atheism is one I only ever hear from theists, and rarely, if ever, hear from an actual atheist.
Honestly, no offense, but I can't really get behind almost any of the rationalization you stated in this post...
hasn't there been thread after thread, and poll after poll on this topic, that almost unanimously shots down that "bad past equals atheism" propaganda??

It's just rhetoric. My own experience with religion was never negative until after my deconversion. After this theists started attacking me for not believing anymore. This is when religion become a negative experience as many of it's followers started with the empty rhetoric you replied to.

 

[columbus]

Lets stop there.
You say the Bible got the time frame wrong. Now it seems to me that you are making a fairly bold claim here. I believe this would be a good time for you to be more clear. Exactly what time frame are you referring to when you say the Bible got it wrong? And then I will show you why you are wrong.

I'm not Alceste, but I have read the Bible.

Luke 3:23-38 lists all 70 odd generations from Adam to Jesus. Adam was made less than a week after Creation. Either the world is less than 7,000 years old or the Bible is wrong about the time frame.

Tom

 

[Shad]

I'm not Alceste, but I have read the Bible.

Luke 3:23-38 lists all 70 odd generations from Adam to Jesus. Adam was made less than a week after Creation. Either the world is less than 7,000 years old or the Bible is wrong about the time frame.

Tom

You forgot about the 6 days are more like (insert scientifically discovered number here) to God. God apparently dropped his watch.

 

[columbus]

You forgot about the 6 days are more like (insert scientifically discovered number here) to God. God apparently dropped his watch.

I know. Ironic isn't it? Genesis authors can't tell how long a day is to the nearest billion years, but they know what God thinks about Doug and me.

Tom

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Correct.. The main reason would still be, as it's pointed out constantly..
"Lack of evidence"

Edit..nvm, the post I was responding to seems to have disappeared..

 

[Viker]

Dawud

I would also say lack of evidence.

As to the source of morality, I believe as Socrates did that ethics, values and morals are best drawn from knowledge and reason.

Right there. Knowledge and REASON.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Because atheists worship Thomas the Choo Choo Train but refrain from telling anyone.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm becoming a bit confused. I hear you saying that "God is not separated from matter" on the one hand, and then that God cannot be a person on the other. This appears to be a contradiction of thinking from my perspective. Can you clear this up for me? How can a god be inseparable from matter on the one hand, and yet also be incapable of being a man?

Of course God can be present in any thing. It depends on freewill.
When I say that God is not separated from matter, I mean that God is the meaning of matter. I don't mean that God is inside matter (as Spinoza said).

I give you an example. We humans can recognize the just from the unjust, the ugly from the beautiful. Animals can't. Because we humans have developed the Word or meaning. So God and humans are alike.

when we see a piece of land filled with useless grass, and other infesting plants, we see that nature is chaotic. But if we turn this land into a garden with bushes of roses, tulips and daffodils...all right. we have given meaning and order to chaos. That's the relationship between God and nature and we are little gods

 

[YmirGF]

Oh boy. Wrong tree dude. Wrong tree.

Evidently I touched a nerve.

There's two types of people.

If only this were true.

A)The first are those who believe in God(s) and would need evidence that he doesn't exist to believe otherwise. The thing is, no one can prove that he/they don't exist. By design, Its genius, really.

In reality, it's not even very clever. This is also why I've grown to like the allusion, "Little Pink Fairies love nothing more than riding on the backs of Purple Unicorns." Prove that this is not so. I'll wait.

1)This includes people who would tell you they are atheist, but really are looking to disprove his existence because of their hunch that one exists. The reasons obviously would vary, tremendously. Perhaps they are angry, confused, lost. Regardless, they feel there is one, but would admit there isn't.

Well, you've got me there as I've never met any supposed atheists of this nature. Perhaps we just have traveled in different circles.

B) The Second are those who don't believe in a God(s) and would need evidence that he does exist in order to believe otherwise. By design, its genius, really.

Actually, it might take a fair bit more than evidence as often presented by enthusiastic theists.

1) This includes people who would admit they believe in a God, like many Christians and religious folk I know, but really don't. Perhaps they were raised in a religious home, and since its apart of their upbringing, and though they don't believe him to exist, the way of life alone has been instilled in them.

Okie Dokie. So what, exactly, does 1) have to do with B)? Perhaps you are simply too subtle for my inferior intellectual skills. So, they would admit that they believe in god(s) but don't believe in god(s). OK. That makes sense.

This is my reality, dude. The irony in it is the story of my life. It seems that for every person who believes in a god, another doesn't. For every person that says they do but really don't, there's another who says they don't, but have a hunch that says he does. For every radical religious idiot who fights for others to convert/believe, there's another (perhaps an atheist) who fights to have it questioned.

If you say so, Thruve. It's your reality, not mine.

-Whenever someone grows to disgustingly HATE something so much, they often become that very thing that they hate.

There is some truth in this. Good, we're getting somewhere. Whew.

-When we proclaim a truth, specifically a moral truth, for example when we proclaim cheating is bad, we often face a similar situation to test our morality/strength/decisions on that proclamation. We often fail.

I'm not real big on morality, let alone sticking others with my deluded sense of morality. It's so often a case of Mr. Pot, meet Ms. Kettle. N'est pas?

These are just two examples of Irony I've found, but I can make a list that would roll off this page if I had the time.

Apparently.

So, this is one of the many proofs I have of gods existence. It's not the irony it's self, but the outcomes of our decisions that lead to irony. I have tried.. to make decisions that would otherwise prevent the irony of things in my life from occurring, but sadly it doesn't work lol. Many people who agree with me, know exactly of what Im talking about.

Irony is one of the sacred pillars of my unbounded sense of humor and yet in your usage of the word, I'm a bit mystified.

*Theme from Jeopardy suddenly starts playing*

OK, I think I get what you are saying now. Are you meaning how expectations do not sync up with reality?

Now, This is my reality, or atleast, part of it. If I was to remove GOD from the equation, like you suggested, then this would simply suggest that the irony I speak of is nothing more but a balance to an equation, equated by the universe or some other factor in it. I could come up with atleast a dozen reasons for it that has nothing to do with god. Whether God exists or not is irrelevant to me, though, because no matter what, I understand the possibility that god doesn't exist, but I attribute such things in life, such as irony, to that of a diety simply because all of this (and more) is something beyond my comprehension, and will be beyond the comprehension of our species for as long as we exist here as physical vessels on this planet.

Hehe, that was sort of what I was getting at by saying you were projecting. Please try to understand that I didn't mean that to be a dig, per se, but meant it more as a probable explanation. This paragraph underscores what I was alluding to when I said:

People don't know what it is that they are "touching" and simply project that therefore it must be god

Now, since you understand a PIECE of my reality and how I perceive the world, who would dare tell me to remove God from an equation I perceived and only ever perceived from my original belief in God. Why tell me to do so when I am person example A) those who believe in God(s) and would need evidence that he doesn't exist to believe otherwise. The thing is, no one can prove that he/they don't exist. By design, Its genius, really.

I see it more as a Catch-22, but that's just me.

The few on here who are religious activists are the balance to the equation with Atheist activists and vice versa, especially those who flat out proclaim there is no God on some of these threads voicing opinions for theists to debate over. Both of you are ridiculous in my opinion.

Sadly, the RF rulebook precludes me from giving a full and frank reply to this nugget. Have it your way.

God is not the dam problem, religion is the problem. We don't need to remove God from the equation in my opinion. We need to balance the equation, and I slowly see it happening on a global scale especially in the West and Europe. Notice In my threads I often flame both Religious activists and Atheists who constantly pound their beliefs into the forums. God doesn't exist. God doesn't exist. God doesn't exist.

Sadly, you would be hard pressed to find me saying such a thing, so I don't quite understand why you feel a need to vent this all out at me. Bad hair day?

Shut the hell up because You have no idea if he exists or not. Stop suggesting he doesn't exist because you look and sound like an idiot.

Well, it is so fortunate that I don't say things like that, simply due to the Pink Fairies/Purple Unicorns principle. Feel better?

Now, I perceive such atheists as people who were born into religious homes, or ones where religion, NOT GOD, made a profound mark on their lives that was very un-tasteful. I get it, but I also know eventually they will balance out, and in short Ill simply give them a little reminder of that. Same applies to JW that knock on my door. I tell them, "Oh, so, only 144,000 people huh? Well You surely believe your apart of that 144,000 don't you, Sike", not because I hate them, but because Im tired of these ridiculous beliefs that most religious folk cannot see past, though I know one day that they will.

Since you're into irony, you might laugh when I tell you that I've done the very same thing. They get the funniest look on their faces... and then run down the driveway to get the hell out of Dodge. I digress.

Its like Both atheists and religious activists live in a box. They think they've got it all figured out. What they don't realize is that they may have escaped one box thats given them new light.. and given them wisdom.. epiphanies, etc, but only to be trapped in a larger box thereafter.

I'm a bit more optimistic. I left my boxes behind a very long time ago.

LETS NOT remove God from the equation. Id rather not know what happens if we do. No, Thankyou. Removing God sounds just as dumb to me as not removing him sounds to you. Oh, How ironic.

What's ironic to me is that this hit so deeply that you gave this long, impassioned response. Now that's fricken irony.

I believe in a God, Yes. I also adhere to Christianity. I know Jesus to be as real as anything through Irony that describes him and what he does entirely. I believe it. Do I push him on others? Nahp. Do I understand the fallacies of Christianity and agree with some if not most of them. Yahp. So Wheres my in-between explanation on Christianity, beside God doesn't exist? You. Me. Us as a species. We messed all of this up. Not God. Mkkay thanks bai

I, for one, am glad you feel that way. I do hope you are feeling better after writing this. Keep up the happy thoughts.

 

[serp777]

I don't think these are the reasons. I know some Atheists who are incredibly pious, chaste, altruistic and generous.

It depends on what you mean by God.
I am a Christian, and I deny the existence of a God who wants to be adored and prayed. I deny the existence of a prideful God that wants anybody to believe in his existence.
I believe in God as Law, as wisdom and as justice. So if an Atheist struggles for justice and love, then they're already a Christian.

God will not sever the believers from the non-believers, on the Doomsday.
God will sever the wicked from among the just.

Then you have just completely redefined what a Christian is. The christian God loves various rituals and prayers, and demands frequent confessions and forgiveness.

And so how do you know what is just and what is not? There is no way we could possibly know what determines someone who is wicked from someone who is just. It all depends on your environment, genetics, culture, and etc for what determines right and wrong, wickedness and justice.

 

[Estro Felino]

And so how do you know what is just and what is not? There is no way we could possibly know what determines someone who is wicked from someone who is just. It all depends on your environment, genetics, culture, and etc for what determines right and wrong, wickedness and justice.

That's why I am a Christian. Because we Christians believe that evil and good are universal and objective. regardless of the cultural environment.

In fact in Revelation, a passage says:
And an angel shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.

This passage implies that it is not true that in each of us there is both good and evil. But one thing excludes the other. so if there is good there can't be evil and vice versa.
so mankind is split in two: the wicked and the just

 

[serp777]

That's why I am a Christian. Because we Christians believe that evil and good are universal and objective. regardless of the cultural environment.

In fact in Revelation, a passage says:
And an angel shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.

This passage implies that it is not true that in each of us there is both good and evil. But one thing excludes the other. so if there is good there can't be evil and vice versa.
so mankind is split in two: the wicked and the just

I don't see how you can agree with that. What if someone grew up in a hunter gatherer/ warrior society, where they were taught from a young age that survival of fittest and murder were acceptable? This person would never have heard or realized the objective moral values you probably hold, and therefore, to hold them to the same moral standard wouldn't be fair or just, since they were never in a position to gain a different perspective or insight.

Or what if someone grew up isolated with their family and had been brought up with the belief system that incest or rape was ok? All of these examples depend on your environment. It's known as moral relativism.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't see how you can agree with that. What if someone grew up in a hunter gatherer/ warrior society, where they were taught from a young age that survival of fittest and murder were acceptable? This person would never have heard or realized the objective moral values you probably hold, and therefore, to hold them to the same moral standard wouldn't be fair or just, since they were never in a position to gain a different perspective or insight.

Or what if someone grew up isolated with their family and had been brought up with the belief system that incest or rape was ok? All of these examples depend on your environment. It's known as moral relativism.

Being Christian means not to let your cultural background influence you.
In other words, I have to be necessarily critic towards the values system I was raised in.
I have to develop a strong spirit of criticism that allows me to acknowledge what is good and what is evil, by using my own brain.
That's why I do not let the Bible influence me. But there are lots of things of the Bible I don't agree with. Some concepts sound even devilish to me.

 

[serp777]

Being Christian means not to let your cultural background influence you.
In other words, I have to be necessarily critic towards the values system I was raised in.
I have to develop a strong spirit of criticism that allows me to acknowledge what is good and what is evil, by using my own brain.
That's why I do not let the Bible influence me. But there are lots of things of the Bible I don't agree with. Some concepts sound even devilish to me.

But don't you see? Your cultural background has influenced you. I'm sure you treat homosexuals with respect, you treat women equally, and you otherwise accept the modern day values that come along with a 21st century first world society. Your values are directly inherited from society, although i'm sure they do differ a bit since there is room for variation. You cannot deny that 1st world society hasn't had a profound impact on your moral existence.

 

[Thruve]

Evidently I touched a nerve.

If only this were true.
In reality, it's not even very clever. This is also why I've grown to like the allusion, "Little Pink Fairies love nothing more than riding on the backs of Purple Unicorns." Prove that this is not so. I'll wait.

Well, you've got me there as I've never met any supposed atheists of this nature. Perhaps we just have traveled in different circles.

Actually, it might take a fair bit more than evidence as often presented by enthusiastic theists.
Okie Dokie. So what, exactly, does 1) have to do with B)? Perhaps you are simply too subtle for my inferior intellectual skills. So, they would admit that they believe in god(s) but don't believe in god(s). OK. That makes sense.

If you say so, Thruve. It's your reality, not mine.

There is some truth in this. Good, we're getting somewhere. Whew.
I'm not real big on morality, let alone sticking others with my deluded sense of morality. It's so often a case of Mr. Pot, meet Ms. Kettle. N'est pas?

Apparently.

Irony is one of the sacred pillars of my unbounded sense of humor and yet in your usage of the word, I'm a bit mystified.

*Theme from Jeopardy suddenly starts playing*

OK, I think I get what you are saying now. Are you meaning how expectations do not sync up with reality?

Hehe, that was sort of what I was getting at by saying you were projecting. Please try to understand that I didn't mean that to be a dig, per se, but meant it more as a probable explanation. This paragraph underscores what I was alluding to when I said:
I see it more as a Catch-22, but that's just me.

Sadly, the RF rulebook precludes me from giving a full and frank reply to this nugget. Have it your way.

Sadly, you would be hard pressed to find me saying such a thing, so I don't quite understand why you feel a need to vent this all out at me. Bad hair day?

Well, it is so fortunate that I don't say things like that, simply due to the Pink Fairies/Purple Unicorns principle. Feel better?

Since you're into irony, you might laugh when I tell you that I've done the very same thing. They get the funniest look on their faces... and then run down the driveway to get the hell out of Dodge. I digress.

I'm a bit more optimistic. I left my boxes behind a very long time ago.

What's ironic to me is that this hit so deeply that you gave this long, impassioned response. Now that's fricken irony.

I, for one, am glad you feel that way. I do hope you are feeling better after writing this. Keep up the happy thoughts.

Oh, dude, It was for everyone. Some of the remarks that may have sounded directed towards you really weren't. I was clarifying my frustration with many on RF, you included lol

The A) 1) statements were showing a balance to an equation.

In reference to this response of yours: "OK, I think I get what you are saying now. Are you meaning how expectations do not sync up with reality?"->

What I mean is, no matter what decision you make, the Irony persists. The only 'logical' explanation I can find, other than 'Gods Will', is an individual's destiny being set in stone. The path they take to get there is entirely up to them, so if they take 95 to New York or a bunch of back roads around the country instead, thats up to them, but their destination is the same. Its not something, on the other hand, that they can control. They cannot control the outcomes. Every Turn in life stears them back towards their destination. What accounts for this? My reasoning says God. God is love but Love is pain. Our Destination is eternal peace. I cannot, for the life of me, find another reason for the Irony in our own personal lives that points nowhere but to love.

 

[Alceste]

Lets stop there.
You say the Bible got the time frame wrong. Now it seems to me that you are making a fairly bold claim here. I believe this would be a good time for you to be more clear. Exactly what time frame are you referring to when you say the Bible got it wrong? And then I will show you why you are wrong.

And then you can be more specific as to the particular order that you claim the Bible has gotten wrong. And then I will show you why you are wrong. Then you can be more specific with the causes that you claim the Bible has gotten wrong. And I will again show you why you are wrong. And then we can discuss the shape of the earth, the nature of the firmament, the heavens, and the origin of humanity.

No thank you. We have already had about two billion threads by Christians trying to "prove" that genesis is literally true. And another two billion threads by Christians arguing that it is somehow metaphorically true. It's obviously just plain incorrect. If you don't know that you need a science class, not an argument.

 

[Estro Felino]

But don't you see? Your cultural background has influenced you. I'm sure you treat homosexuals with respect, you treat women equally, and you otherwise accept the modern day values that come along with a 21st century first world society. Your values are directly inherited from society, although i'm sure they do differ a bit since there is room for variation. You cannot deny that 1st world society hasn't had a profound impact on your moral existence.

Actually my cultural background is based upon uncontrolled Capitalism, and I am strongly against it.