• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
I think god is as reasonable an answer as any other. But they would both have their root in the minds of people. Specifically why I think "god" would be a "made up" answer is because of 2 key reasons.
1) Not all religions are correct. So at the very least the vast majority are "made up".
2) We have, for as long as human history has been around, used "god" as a convenient answer for things we didn't understand. Everything was caused by god. Slowly over time we have found out why things are the way they are and every single time we have made that discovery it wasn't god. I don't see any logical reason to assume that it wouldn't be the same with this claim.

First, I'd like to point out that religion is indeed a construct of man. It may or it may not have it's roots in the existence of a God. I would suggest that all religion is made up to a certain extent. Even the Bible suggests that this is true.

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

If it could be determined that God does exist, and if we should discover that God has created all the laws of nature such that a tree limb is incapable of withstanding a lightning bolt, and if a lightning bolt should strike such a tree limb and cause it to fall to the ground, what is the cause of that tree limb falling to the ground? Is the lightning bolt the cause of it? Is gravity the cause of it, or is God the cause of it?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Dawud Talut said:
Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?
People usually learn about God through other people, not directly from God.
Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people? __________________
First, move past appearances. The most immediate thing you notice about secular society is that secular society feels a bit colder and more pragmatic than in large communities of believers. You could see that as either good or bad, because a lot of times 'Believers' are sweet on the outside but back-stabbers on the inside. Secular people can also be that way, but there is less expectation to appear sweet all the time. Also secular people tend to ignore people that aren't their friends. In religious communities its different and everybody is supposed to be friendly all the time with complete strangers.

For secular people and sources of morality:

First there is conscience. Usually people who don't believe in God seem a little bit rough to people who do, because they do not have the same exact boundaries. For example they may drink alcohol when you don't, but they still have a conscience. What is unsettling sometimes is they are wild. They are only good when they choose to be good, so in secular people you can observe the actual ability of the conscience on its own both its failures and successes. In believers it is different, because believers always think they are being watched by God and by angels.

Second there is maturity or ageing, which creates some morality in people. As men get older we change and get a little bit softer, and we see our deaths approaching. We think about the stupid mistakes we've made. We learn to hate suffering even in others. Also as we go through life we experience terrible pain that we didn't know about when we were children. It creates a hatred of pain, and most people are also sympathetic to the pain of others (no not all people are but most).

Third. People who don't believe in God can still learn morality from other people, from parents, from friends and just from almost anyone. Whatever is good, they can copy it and benefit from it, and many people do. When you see something good you desire it, including good behavior.
 
Last edited:

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
Respectfully, Thruve...I see it based more on misunderstanding or a misapprehension of reality, to be honest. People don't know what it is that they are "touching" and simply project that therefore it must be god. Well, ain't they special?

One can say this about popular fiction too. Fiction is based on reality, that's why it works. That is why people love a good fiction. In short, because they can relate.


My thought is that you are simply seeing reality the way you want reality to behave. Reality is forced through the lens of understanding. So is it any wonder that you perceive what you do? The thing is, if you remove god from the equation, reality would still be what it is. It doesn't need a god to support it.
Oh boy. Wrong tree dude. Wrong tree.

There's two types of people.
A)The first are those who believe in God(s) and would need evidence that he doesn't exist to believe otherwise. The thing is, no one can prove that he/they don't exist. By design, Its genius, really.
1)This includes people who would tell you they are atheist, but really are looking to disprove his existence because of their hunch that one exists. The reasons obviously would vary, tremendously. Perhaps they are angry, confused, lost. Regardless, they feel there is one, but would admit there isn't.

B) The Second are those who don't believe in a God(s) and would need evidence that he does exist in order to believe otherwise. By design, its genius, really.
1) This includes people who would admit they believe in a God, like many Christians and religious folk I know, but really don't. Perhaps they were raised in a religious home, and since its apart of their upbringing, and though they don't believe him to exist, the way of life alone has been instilled in them.

This is my reality, dude. The irony in it is the story of my life. It seems that for every person who believes in a god, another doesn't. For every person that says they do but really don't, there's another who says they don't, but have a hunch that says he does. For every radical religious idiot who fights for others to convert/believe, there's another (perhaps an atheist) who fights to have it questioned.

-Whenever someone grows to disgustingly HATE something so much, they often become that very thing that they hate.
-When we proclaim a truth, specifically a moral truth, for example when we proclaim cheating is bad, we often face a similar situation to test our morality/strength/decisions on that proclamation. We often fail.

These are just two examples of Irony I've found, but I can make a list that would roll off this page if I had the time. So, this is one of the many proofs I have of gods existence. It's not the irony it's self, but the outcomes of our decisions that lead to irony. I have tried.. to make decisions that would otherwise prevent the irony of things in my life from occurring, but sadly it doesn't work lol. Many people who agree with me, know exactly of what Im talking about.

Now, This is my reality, or atleast, part of it. If I was to remove GOD from the equation, like you suggested, then this would simply suggest that the irony I speak of is nothing more but a balance to an equation, equated by the universe or some other factor in it. I could come up with atleast a dozen reasons for it that has nothing to do with god. Whether God exists or not is irrelevant to me, though, because no matter what, I understand the possibility that god doesn't exist, but I attribute such things in life, such as irony, to that of a diety simply because all of this (and more) is something beyond my comprehension, and will be beyond the comprehension of our species for as long as we exist here as physical vessels on this planet.

This is me ^ this obviously doesn't pertain to many others.

Now, since you understand a PIECE of my reality and how I perceive the world, who would dare tell me to remove God from an equation I perceived and only ever perceived from my original belief in God. Why tell me to do so when I am person example A) those who believe in God(s) and would need evidence that he doesn't exist to believe otherwise. The thing is, no one can prove that he/they don't exist. By design, Its genius, really.
The few on here who are religious activists are the balance to the equation with Atheist activists and vice versa, especially those who flat out proclaim there is no God on some of these threads voicing opinions for theists to debate over. Both of you are ridiculous in my opinion.

God is not the dam problem, religion is the problem. We don't need to remove God from the equation in my opinion. We need to balance the equation, and I slowly see it happening on a global scale especially in the West and Europe. Notice In my threads I often flame both Religious activists and Atheists who constantly pound their beliefs into the forums. God doesn't exist. God doesn't exist. God doesn't exist. Shut the hell up because You have no idea if he exists or not. Stop suggesting he doesn't exist because you look and sound like an idiot. Now, I perceive such atheists as people who were born into religious homes, or ones where religion, NOT GOD, made a profound mark on their lives that was very un-tasteful. I get it, but I also know eventually they will balance out, and in short Ill simply give them a little reminder of that. Same applies to JW that knock on my door. I tell them, "Oh, so, only 144,000 people huh? Well You surely believe your apart of that 144,000 don't you, Sike", not because I hate them, but because Im tired of these ridiculous beliefs that most religious folk cannot see past, though I know one day that they will. Its like Both atheists and religious activists live in a box. They think they've got it all figured out. What they don't realize is that they may have escaped one box thats given them new light.. and given them wisdom.. epiphanies, etc, but only to be trapped in a larger box thereafter.

Gods not the problem. We are. Religion is.

LETS NOT remove God from the equation. Id rather not know what happens if we do. No, Thankyou. Removing God sounds just as dumb to me as not removing him sounds to you. Oh, How ironic.

I believe in a God, Yes. I also adhere to Christianity. I know Jesus to be as real as anything through Irony that describes him and what he does entirely. I believe it. Do I push him on others? Nahp. Do I understand the fallacies of Christianity and agree with some if not most of them. Yahp. So Wheres my in-between explanation on Christianity, beside God doesn't exist? You. Me. Us as a species. We messed all of this up. Not God. Mkkay thanks bai
 
Last edited:

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Dawud

I would also say lack of evidence.

As to the source of morality, I believe as Socrates did that ethics, values and morals are best drawn from knowledge and reason.
 

gzusfrk

Christian
dear friend...Atheists don't believe in God's existence. But God's word can be in their hearts, because God is spirit , and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth.
That means that you don't have to believe in God to be Christian

I'm not sure this makes sense, I dont claim to be the smartest guy on the block, but your saying, Gods Word can be in their heart that they dont believe in. How can there be Gods Word, if God does not exist?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You have no idea if he exists or not. Stop suggesting he doesn't exist because you look and sound like an idiot. Now, I perceive such atheists as people who were born into religious homes, or ones where religion, NOT GOD, made a profound mark on their lives that was very un-tasteful. I get it, but I also know eventually they will

Very perceptive..:clap

Actually much of atheistic rationale stems from a 'hurt past', where religion was a negative thing to be hated, something that judged, and condemned them, so atheism became a 'defense' mechanism against any "religious" therefore theistic ideas, regardless of reasoning or conceptual makeup. The real 'problem' arises when they meet people like me who have no reason to be xians etc, yet choose to identify as theistic, it sort of crashes their worldview, where every 'rational' person is an atheist, and every 'theist' is a raging extremist, (defense mechanism, remember?):eek:
If they were more open, I think sometimes some of the 'hardboiled atheists' would find themselves just wanting a shoulder to cry on, not someone to 'argue with', on a forum.
 
Last edited:

Alceste

Vagabond
Now the parable is this, the seed is the Word of God. And those beside the road are those who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the Word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved. Luke 8: 11-12.

That's one of the laziest explanations I've ever heard.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
If only atheists had a valid, proven theory for the existence of matter and natural laws, you might have a platform on which to stand. Instead, you stand on a belief that nature and natural law occurs naturally. And that is a great leap of faith, without evidence.

You suggest, that because you see it, it must have always been there. But if you can't see it, it could not possibly exist. This is completely illogical.

Can you not see that "magic" is an even worse explanation than natural processes?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people?

Primarily the reason for doubt is that humans do all the talking and doing. Can't think much of any God that is so completely helpless and mute necessitating humans to do all the footwork and communication on his "behalf" like God is irreversibly and hopelessly handicapped.

If humans went quiet and inactive, so would God also.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Can you not see that "magic" is an even worse explanation than natural processes?

Sorry, I don't believe in magic. I believe that creating universes comes quite naturally to God. If God has existed for all of eternity as my good book says, then I'm quite certain that it is quite natural for God to be God.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I'm scientifically minded, very skeptical, and don't come from any sort of 'religious adherence' background.
That being said, it really doesn't have to do with religious/theistic beliefs. We are talking about theism, which might not have any proof.

Exactly, and if there is no evidence (or "proof") of any given claim, I simply don't believe it. Why would I? I am not so afraid of the unknown that I must simply believe in the claims of theists to fill the holes in my understanding of the world. I'm much too preoccupied absorbing all the credible claims produced by science to be at all attracted to the unlikely claims of religion.

Please tell me your understanding of nature. What exactly about nature do you understand?

Why exactly do electrons exist?
Where do electrons come from?
Why does photosynthesis work for some conglomerations of molecules, but not for others?
What is gravity? And what causes it to exist?
What is the nature of matter such that it should have such a component?

What is love? Why should it exist?
What understanding do you have that the Bible got wrong?

The Bible got nearly everything wrong, starting from Genesis. It got the time frame wrong, it got the order wrong, it got the causes and consequences wrong, the shape of the earth, the nature of the "firmament" and the "heavens", the origin of humanity .... just about every single thing the Bible claims about the world is completely, mind-bogglingly wrong. The only explanation for the sheer avalanche of error that the Bible contains is that it was written by men who simply didn't know any better.

In answer to the rest of your questions, the only appeal of answering them all with "because of God" is that it makes the world seem simple and makes all the mysteries of the world appear to be answered. IOW, it mainly appeals to people who fear the unknown and cannot handle complexity. I am not one of those people, so religion does not appeal to me.

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."
(Genesis 6:1-2)

The KJV version says this:
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
(Genesis 6:4)

The NIV says it this way:
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
(Genesis 6:4)

Remember, it was Moses who wrote this book, not Noah. By Moses' time, the giants (Nephilem) Sons of the "gods" were indeed heroes of old, and men of renown; names like those we find in Greek mythology and other supposed mythologies as well.

It is my guess that if you were to see an angel, and it commanded you to worship him as a god, you would.

Nope. I'd just put down the bong.
 

gzusfrk

Christian
That's one of the laziest explanations I've ever heard.

Why because its true? Or that I didnt write it, I just copied it. Never the less, what does that mean anyway.." never the less". The Word bounces off their hearts like a bb hitting plate steel.
 

Awkward Fingers

Omphaloskeptic
Very perceptive..:clap

Actually much of atheistic rationale stems from a 'hurt past', where religion was a negative thing to be hated, something that judged, and condemned them, so atheism became a 'defense' mechanism against any "religious" therefore theistic ideas, regardless of reasoning or conceptual makeup. The real 'problem' arises when they meet people like me who have no reason to be xians etc, yet choose to identify as theistic, it sort of crashes their worldview, where every 'rational' person is an atheist, and every 'theist' is a raging extremist, (defense mechanism, remember?):eek:
If they were more open, I think sometimes some of the 'hardboiled atheists' would find themselves just wanting a shoulder to cry on, not someone to 'argue with', on a forum.

:eyeroll:
Please don't ever take a job where your in a position of counseling..
The "bad past, hurt by a mean theist" reason for atheism is one I only ever hear from theists, and rarely, if ever, hear from an actual atheist.
Honestly, no offense, but I can't really get behind almost any of the rationalization you stated in this post...
hasn't there been thread after thread, and poll after poll on this topic, that almost unanimously shots down that "bad past equals atheism" propaganda??
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Exactly, and if there is no evidence (or "proof") of any given claim, I simply don't believe it. Why would I? I am not so afraid of the unknown that I must simply believe in the claims of theists to fill the holes in my understanding of the world. I'm much too preoccupied absorbing all the credible claims produced by science to be at all attracted to the unlikely claims of religion.

Claims only by 'science'? I don't have a "religion" anyway.
 

gzusfrk

Christian
Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people?

I know some Christians that read the Bible very little, I think that could be some of the problem. I have read the New Testament several hundred times. It does say Faith comes by hearing and or reading the Word of God.
 
Top