Why doesnt god kill Satan?

[Orias]

My thoughts exactly... sense neither one exists, how could either one kill the other?

Because perhaps they exist within the Mind. So if they exist within the Mind, then they must battle within the Mind .

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I would like to know the reason.Is god testing us?or is Satan more powerful than God?
Thanks.

Jesus will 'kill' Satan in that Jesus will 'destroy' Satan according to Heb [2v14 b].
Jesus proves to be the 'seed' of Gen [3v15] that deals the serpent [Satan] a fatal death bruise to his head.

Who is the one testing Job at Job [2v4,5]?
Satan not only meant Job but implies all of us would not worship God if the going got rough. By Satan saying 'a' man implies all of us in the issue.
Touch our flesh [sickness] and we would not worship God.

Despite this problem, the passing of time has allowed us to be born, and use our free moral will to choose who we want to listen to.

 

[Adramelek]

It is proven Earth and Man was birthed from the stars, yes indeed an Aspect of Life (light), but the Star was birthed from Dust, from the Nothingness in which it came, the Darkness, the Ultimate Origin.

Excellent point Orias! Frubals coming your way. It is from out of the primordial darkness that all life (including light) originated within this Universe. When one looks up at the sky-by-night, one indeed sees millions upon millions of tiny specks of light amidst the vast black ocean of infinite darkness which reigns upon the face of the Deep. Darkness is infinite, whereas light is finite... and that is one of the absolutes within the objective universe. Hence, the reason why night is defined by darkness. The light of a star will eventually whither and die, the darkness is ever lasting and has no boundaries - it is a scientific and an observable reality and truth.

In Perpetuum Nocturnus!
/Adramelek\

 

[Kriya Yogi]

In a physical aspect yes everything was made from stars which is made of light and energy. Dust came after light therefore everything is created by light. Light is then God's tool to give a physical manifestation. So in true essence this physical universe was first an idea of God, and then manifested from that idea into his light in which created stars. In astronomy it is proven that stars disperse or explode into nebulai which in turn created the planets, moons, and suns etc.. that were and are directed by God always and then guided them all as solar systems to create perfect environments for living creatures. You see the very essence of this universe shows us there is an infinite intelligence at work beyond and at the same time intimately apart of all that is. God is everything!

 

[EtuMalku]

I would argue strongly that everything is created from and by 'Vibration' including what most perceive as 'God'.

In a physical aspect yes everything was made from stars which is made of light and energy. Dust came after light therefore everything is created by light. Light is then God's tool to give a physical manifestation. So in true essence this physical universe was first an idea of God, and then manifested from that idea into his light in which created stars. In astronomy it is proven that stars disperse or explode into nebulai which in turn created the planets, moons, and suns etc.. that were and are directed by God always and then guided them all as solar systems to create perfect environments for living creatures. You see the very essence of this universe shows us there is an infinite intelligence at work beyond and at the same time intimately apart of all that is. God is everything!

 

[Beaudreaux]

OK, seriously, I think I get it now. When you are trying to say that Satan and his works are evil, you point out that he causes pain and suffering and that doing so is bad.

But when you are questioned as to why God does not stop this evil, you point out that Satan is a force for good by testing, strengthening our will and spirit and keeping us from becoming evil. God is then absolved because the existence of the devil is actually a good thing.

Exactly! Through suffering born of Satan we finally turn to God. He wants us to forsake the darkness and rest in God's eternal protection of light, love, joy, and bliss!

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Why are you confusing yourself again? There is nothing that I have said that should confuse you or contradict anything I've been saying.

 

[Orias]

In a physical aspect yes everything was made from stars which is made of light and energy. Dust came after light therefore everything is created by light. Light is then God's tool to give a physical manifestation. So in true essence this physical universe was first an idea of God, and then manifested from that idea into his light in which created stars. In astronomy it is proven that stars disperse or explode into nebulai which in turn created the planets, moons, and suns etc.. that were and are directed by God always and then guided them all as solar systems to create perfect environments for living creatures. You see the very essence of this universe shows us there is an infinite intelligence at work beyond and at the same time intimately apart of all that is. God is everything!

And how exactly does Dust come after light? For in order for Light to be, it needs a path to travel through. Dust creates this road from Nothingness, in which our perceptive minds see clearly the Order of Nature that we are reflective upon.

Again, you cannot say one thing came from another, because without one of them we would not be. They came from Origin, the Darkness in which you dream.

Not one can achieve as you have stated "Oneness with thy self", if you do not acknowledge the Specteral Balance of Nature.

God does not manipulate Nature, for a Nature would have to be to have allowed such an existence.

God is an Athiest. Simply stated, so why should we believe in him, if he doesn't believe any one being created him?

I deny God, because he denies all others.

He is just that, used by Man to help Man better become himself.

By the way, I believe you have two long posts to attend to or not.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

But God is not beyond percption, as God has been comprehended. So I will restate, in order for a God to be, a greater nature would have to have allowed it. So a God can allow himself? As Satan could also allow himself, as something has to come beyond what you chose to not see. For light could not be, if it were not for darkness.

It is a false perception that God was created. He is the only thing beyond creation. Everything else is in him, including Satan, which is another word for ignorance in man born on our inability to see God. Our whole physical existance and thought that we are separate from God is a delusion, but it doesn't have to be this way. There are ways to see God as saints have already testified and witnessed. Whether you choose to agree with this is up to you. Since you disagree and both of us cannot prove our points we'll agree to disagree on this.

Now, back to my original statement of all things are Satanic, as all things have an Opposite. Your God allows his existence, yet he Opposes it. Therefore, he is Satanic, as you have stated light and darkness come from him, the very birth of Opposition. A God exists, he he is still surrounded by his 'creations', yet what motivated him was beyond a fixed perception, as his own characteristics you have given him have Satanic Nature. Spiritual awarness lies within the self and your connection with what is. Not one is right or wrong, but perhaps weak or strong. Such expression, however, is irrelevant to your status of being. Spirituality does not justify death, no matter how Willful your faithful mind may be. Simply stated, your perception gives meaning to everything, where the Oppositions is everything. The consequence is the justificatation of being, and the overwhelming flow that the opus of spirituality ignites. No matter the Spiritual Aspect, the consistancy of being is the Will of Nature, and carnal knowledge. Nature is in Opposition of itself, as it is itself that it tries to over come. Thus all things are, because they are, as confliction absolves the label Satan, and becomes it's own existence.

So let me get this right in this whole paragraph your saying that everything is made in our mind? Let me ask you this where do you think our consciousness comes from that gives us these perceptions? We are like individual waves of consciousness upon the ocean of God's light and bliss. The further we are from the Ocean the further we are from seeing God. In other words how spiritually advanced we are. As the ocean exists without the waves the waves cannot exist without the ocean.

Of course, I never thought you were trying to convert me, this is a simple debate of logical Aspect on spirituality and the consistancy of our being. I find this conversation very beneficial to both of us. However, prove existence of the soul, and it's connection to what is. Is it not Man's carnal Nature that made itself become, through the Will of the Gods? Look at those who have existed, created to better help man strive to better become more 'God like'. In turn each God destroys the next, as the more Powerful God has succeeded Man above himself. So you say everything is light, then what is Satan's role in this? Not all energy is light, as what we see is reflecting the light itself, not emitting it. So if all things are light, then are all things good? Yes you are correct that we can worship, but that does not make it so. J.K. Rowling's only reference to Hogwart is within the books she has writeen, but that doe not make Hogwarts realistically justified, or does it? Perhaps within the Perceptional Universe? But again, that is just a fantasy.

Well this debate may be beneficial to you, but I have so much faith in my Guru that if it contradicts the teachings of my Guru then I don't really believe them. If they run along the same lines as his teachings but are worded differently then I will agree. I know him to be right as I've already explained. This is not stubborness, it is through my own analytical experimentation and observation that everything he has said thus far is true in my life. Our existance as an individual narrow confined consciousness is a delusion. Our very existance is a dream idea of God. Our true nature is back with him where any physical realm is only an idea. Light expands from God's idea which gives reality to this idea. It is however only real to those who only see matter in a confined perception as we do. If we were to overcome it as my Guru has you would see that is all a dream emanting from God's one ray. I will take back the light aspect and take it a step further. This whole existance of matter is an idea of God's consciousness. The energy and light which vibrates on low and high levels gives reality to this material universe we perceive. I've already said this. Again if you disagree on this, and since both of us cannot prove one or the other then we'll agree to disagree.

This existance of light, energy, and shade are in some aspects bad but in some aspects good. I would say its mostly bad because it hides God's true nature of bliss. The things that remind us of our enlightened nature however is good. Its the evil in the world caused by ignorance of God that is bad.

And spirituality does not consist of God, as ones connection with God's personality is not spiritual connection with the self. The One's God is the perfection of the One, and not the deception of the Opposite of you.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Can you clarify?

By negative spirituality (something I believe you mentioned about Satanism) you were speaking of the darkness, or a negative of being, something you could know nothing of. So how can one be affected negatively, if they chose to be of a positive or justifying spirituality? Would they not chose to be of One's spirituality if they did not act on the justifacation of their own fears and self? What is wrong? What is right? It obvious on murder, as Man strives to better become, it is a natural instinct for Man to defend or act out against the Threats to their very being. As you can see among the Kingdom of existence, all beings are at harmoney with their own kind, and only strike down those that impede upon it's own existence. Man helps Man, unfortuneatly, such subjectation has led Man to fight over the material, and not the better self. But then again, all things do happen, whether they are agreeable or disagreeable, things happen, by the Will of Man, against the Will of Man.

Well just because they fight to protect themselves doesn't mean that most sane people don't feel bad about it. I'm talking more evil and villanous acts of killing for no justification. That is a true and deep tamasic or satanic act. Soldiers kill all the time for a good cause or to protect millions of innocent men and women from tyranny. That is actually not truly a bad act. I believe they actually recieve good karma for fighting for a good cause.

Are you insisting we are God? Or that our spirit consists of God? If this is so, it could not be, since people do deny God. So is that also the Will of God to deny himself? Hmm...

I'm saying that our existance is apart of God and that our spirit consists of God. God is everything. Each individual is not God. Therefore since we have the free will to accept him or deny him it is us that denies him not him denying himself. He wants and urges us with his beauty, love, suffering, pain, and his sent prophets to search for us. Like I said everything in this existance can in time bring us to God. Everyone will eventually turn away from evil for it has no lasting happiness in it and only in time brings us suffering.

Though within their own mind there is always the doubt of being. So in a sense, if our spirits consist of God, then so does Satan's, therefore harnessing spirituality to beccome the self, is harnessing "God's" spirit, to overcome "God's" spirit.

No our spirit is separate of matter in which satan resides. Once you overcome matter you have overcome satan or desire and then realize our spirit to be in God. That spirit is samadhi which I will define below from a poem of my Guru.

Nature strives to overcome itself all of the time. In turn creating a more beneficial or wholesome existence.

Yes this is called evolution. As aspects of matter and life evolve so does our consciousness until we reach the final perfection of freedom in God.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Define samadhi. What about it? Are you speaking of the self when you say "energies exist within God's consciousness". Energy does exist, but in order for it to exist within a God's consciousness, it has to have already been. Your labels for creation is irrelevant and fallitical to what and why they are. Energy exists because it was set in motion. Hence God is Man's creation, as Man's Will has allowed such perceptions to be.

This is a poem and a written description of Samadhi in which my Guru wrote after he experienced it himself in his Guru's hermitage. Words could never suffice to explain this state but he does this to give his disciples something to strive for as a source of inspiration:

Vanished the veils of light and shade,
Lifted every vapor of sorrow,
Sailed away all dawns of fleeting joy,
Gone the dim sensory mirage.
Love, hate, health, disease, life, death,
Perished these false shadows on the screen of duality.
Waves of laughter, scyllas of sarcasm, melancholic whirlpools,
Melting in the vast sea of bliss.
The storm of maya stilled
By magic wand of intuition deep.
The universe, forgotten dream, subconsciously lurks,
Ready to invade my newly wakened memory divine.
I live without the cosmic shadow,
But it is not, bereft of me;
As the sea exists without the waves,
But they breathe not without the sea.
Dreams, wakings, states of deep turiya sleep,
Present, past, future, no more for me,
But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Planets, stars, stardust, earth,
Volcanic bursts of doomsday cataclysms,
Creation's molding furnace,
Glaciers of silent x-rays, burning electron floods,
Thoughts of all men, past, present, to come,
Every blade of grass, myself, mankind,
Each particle of universal dust,
Anger, greed, good, bad, salvation, lust,
I swallowed, transmuted all
Into a vast ocean of blood of my own one Being!
Smoldering joy, oft-puffed by meditation
Blinding my tearful eyes,
Burst into immortal flames of bliss,
Consumed my tears, my frame, my all.
Thou art I, I am Thou,
Knowing, Knower, Known, as One!
Tranquilled, unbroken thrill, eternally living, ever new peace!
Enjoyable beyond imagination of expectancy, samadhi bliss!
Not a mental chloroform
Or unconscious state without wilful return,
Samadhi but extends my conscious realm
Beyond the limits of the mortal frame
To farthest boundary of eternity
Where I, the Cosmic Sea,
Watch the little ego floating in me.
The sparrow, each grain of sand, fall not without my sight.
All space like an iceberg floats within my mental sea.
Colossal Container, I, of all things made.
By deeper, longer, thirsty, guru-given meditation
Comes this celestial samadhi
Mobile murmurs of atoms are heard,
The dark earth, mountains, vales, lo! molten liquid!
Flowing seas change into vapors of nebulae!
Aum blows upon the vapors, opening wondrously their veils,
Oceans stand revealed, shining electrons,
Till, at last sound of the cosmic drum,
Vanish the grosser lights into eternal rays
Of all-pervading bliss.
From joy I came, for joy I live, in sacred joy I melt.
Ocean of mind, I drink all creation's waves.
Four veils of solid, liquid, vapor, light,
Lift aright.
Myself, in everything, enters the Great Myself.
Gone forever, fitful, flickering shadows of mortal memory.
Spotless is my mental sky, below, ahead, and high above.
Eternity and I, one united ray.
A tiny bubble of laughter, I
Am become the Sea of Mirth Itself.

Man is not affected by everything. Someone dying on the otherside of the world does not affect me, as it happens every minute, whether it is acknowledged or not! Sure death surrounds us and is imminent, but it starts affecting us at birth. Thus Man affects everything around and within Him. Though no doubt Man cannot overcome the Opposition of the Universe.

Well if you are a highly spiritual and sensitive person you can feel sorry or compassion for a family or being you hear about getting hurt. Also we may not know the extent of how much something affects our lives that happens on the other side of the world. Sometimes things have a wave effect that can cause something in our own lives to occur.

You brought up free will and fate. What about it? Man's will is free, within the mind, as he has the ability to convieve something beyod him. Fate, by fate we are bound to death, as Life is the absence of Nothingness. By death, we are taken out of existence, our mind disapates with the body, as the Mind is where our own Presence dwells, within the being of our mortal flesh. Our consciousness is just that, being aware, once we die we no longer exist, we are no longer aware of the self and what is. Death is an end, not an experience. Life is bound to death as it could not be without the Opposition. But I am sure you know this already.

I wont touch the free will and fate subject. It's to complicated and rather not go into it. I do know for sure that man has free will to accept or deny God. You cannot prove that by death the mind disapates with the body, just as I cannot prove it goes on. You have your belief and I have mine.

We die, not for a reason, but because that is what existence does, it fades back into the Nothingness that it was. As the Universe has a single constant, Dust, and the fabric in which we exist. Of course, Man has the Will to oppress and control others, but that is a topic for a different thread.

Both things exist, not one should be any more acknowledged than the other, as they are both the consistancy of Life. The very balance of Nature, and itself awareness.

We die because life is to unbearable without knowing God so he limits our years on this plain. Our existance is not this world. Its only a tiny part of our immortal adventure towards God. I truly feel sorry for people who believe we disappear into nothingness after we die. This leaves this life and our existance to hold no meaning whatsoever. That's quite a bleak perspective IMO. I on the contrary believe this is just one part of our immortal existance. Its a blink in the eye of eternity. Heaven or samadhi is what is waiting for us all once we overcome satan or our desires and realize God's presence. If we dont in this life we die and rest in an astral world of light and energy higher and more free then this physical sphere. In that realm no pain, suffering, and evil exist. You can travel waves of light and depending on your spiritual advancement talk telepathically. You can manifest anything you want or be anything you want to be. If however you are evil in your life you are sent to a confined astral level in where you have to work out your evil astral karma there just as you do on Earth. Then after a long rest in the astral world that is longer than our stay on Earth we reincarnate on another physical planet in another solar system similar to Earth because we still have desires to work out. Sometimes it can be the exact same planet but not likely. We keep being reborn until we finally work out our desires until our final desire for freedom is quenched in God realization. Then we no longer have to go to the confined Earth for all desires and Karma are gone. Heaven is finally ours! Now that you know my beliefs you can see where I'm coming from, but you don't have to reply to this if you dont want to. This back and forth discussion is quite tedious.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Why are you confusing yourself again? There is nothing that I have said that should confuse you or contradict anything I've been saying.

I am not at all confused. I simply find this position to be blatantly inconsistent and contradictory. Satan is supposed to be evil, so you believe him to be evil. But when you are faced with the moral question of why God would stand by and allow such evil, you say that it is GOOD that Satan exists. Either Satan performs a good and necessary service to humanity or he is evil. He cannot be both.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

I am not at all confused. I simply find this position to be blatantly inconsistent and contradictory. Satan is supposed to be evil, so you believe him to be evil. But when you are faced with the moral question of why God would stand by and allow such evil, you say that it is GOOD that Satan exists. Either Satan performs a good and necessary service to humanity or he is evil. He cannot be both.

I believe through our desires and attachment to this world we give Satan the power. Satan is not good at all. Like I said its what is keeping us from seeing God, but since God gave us free will he will not destroy Satan. He gives us the choice to give into our desires or reach for him. Unfortunately that is the way it is, but it will make you a stronger saint in the end when you finally become free, for you will have learned how evil satan is and will never fall into that trap again.

 

[futureplanet]

Because God is satan.

The bible is only a con, to get people to worship god, so actually you GO to hell.

That's why we have cancer, fires, tornados, babies drowning and burning in house fires. Because God is actually Satan.

So, all christians will end up in hell, and all non-believers will escape the fires!! So, lucky we never feel for that crazy bible! HEY!

 

[Senior NevaLes X]

Greetings!

Very simply because IOV there is no "devil" out there competing with God.

God is One, Supreme, All-loving, All-merciful, and has no equal!

And "satan" is simply a reference to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Simple as that.

Peace,
Bruce

I would like to know where did you that bit of imformation about "satan" is simply a reference to our own lower (animal) nature???

 

[Senior NevaLes X]

Because God is satan.

The bible is only a con, to get people to worship god, so actually you GO to hell.

That's why we have cancer, fires, tornados, babies drowning and burning in house fires. Because God is actually Satan.

So, all christians will end up in hell, and all non-believers will escape the fires!! So, lucky we never feel for that crazy bible! HEY!

I think you have topped the list. Is Alister Crowely your mother and father!?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because God is satan.
The bible is only a con, to get people to worship god, so actually you GO to hell.
That's why we have cancer, fires, tornados, babies drowning and burning in house fires. Because God is actually Satan.
So, all christians will end up in hell, and all non-believers will escape the fires!! So, lucky we never feel for that crazy bible! HEY!

According to 2Cor 4v4 Satan is the 'god' of this world of badness.
According to Revelation 12vs9,12 who brings 'woe' to earth?
Jesus forewarns what will take place before there is divine intervention into mankind's affairs; before the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21.

Jesus was in hell before God resurrected him. -Acts 2vs27,31,32.
The Biblical hell is just mankind's stone-cold common grave.
The 'fires' are destruction in a symbolic second death.
According to Rev 20vs13,14 hell comes to an end after all in hell [gravdom] are 'delivered up' or resurrected out of hell -[haides/ sheol].

Jesus said many would come "In His Name' but prove false.
That does not make the Bible wrong.
It makes wrong teachings about the Bible that are wrong.
Matt chapter 7.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would like to know where did you that bit of imformation about "satan" is simply a reference to our own lower (animal) nature???

It's widely taught in Satanism. Humans are animals, and Satan represents that more primitive animalistic aspect of man.

According to 2Cor 4v4 Satan is the 'god' of this world of badness.
According to Revelation 12vs9,12 who brings 'woe' to earth?
Jesus forewarns what will take place before there is divine intervention into mankind's affairs; before the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21.

Who really brought more woe and suffering to the planet. God destroyed entire cites, the entire world, killed alot of people, cursed tribes, and sent an angel to kill the firstborn of Egypt. God even gave Satan permission to cause the very few instances of suffering and death that was caused by "the devil." Now again I ask you, who brought more suffering upon the world.

 

[dust1n]

I would like to know the reason.Is god testing us?or is Satan more powerful than God?


Thanks.

I think the greatest thing about this thread is that in the title god is not capitalized but Satan is.

 

[MW0082]

It's pretty simple, the two do not exist. There is no god nor a satan. they are our own fears and desires that religion is using against us. Religion is a fear campaign to control the masses, and thus far is working perfectly.

Ask yourself how can god ( an all knowing omnipotent force) not know one of his angels was going to fall and betray him, and become Satan?

See the contridiction? See how it cannot possibly be true?

Satan is someone elses own fear or lack of knowledge of what they do not understand. So they create satan. So you will be feared out of doing what you want to do, because they don't like you doing it. It's all hogwash...

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

 

[Kriya Yogi]

It's pretty simple, the two do not exist. There is no god nor a satan. they are our own fears and desires that religion is using against us. Religion is a fear campaign to control the masses, and thus far is working perfectly.

Ask yourself how can god ( an all knowing omnipotent force) not know one of his angels was going to fall and betray him, and become Satan?

See the contridiction? See how it cannot possibly be true?

Satan is someone elses own fear or lack of knowledge of what they do not understand. So they create satan. So you will be feared out of doing what you want to do, because they don't like you doing it. It's all hogwash...

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

What do you say if we were given free will to do what we wanted and fell ourselves? Its possible that he told us as enlightened beings to be watchful of the attractions of these physical worlds. If one was to play in maya or delusion one's consciousness could identify with that as being the true existance and then in time lose sight of God's nature in them. Free will is apart of this existance. He gives it to all. To accept desires(Satan) or accept God.