Why Doesn't the World Call on Hamas to Surrender?

[Dimi95]

Right the UN is the bad guy when it’s not agreeing with Israel.

Nono , no one respects the UN as you yourself are seeing.Why is UN even there if it does not apply justice equally everywhere.What kind of force is the UN and for what use is its existence anywhere? For 8 months they just talk..

We don't have the unity as a race to overcome the pressure of morality and build ourselfs a better life for the generations to follow.

I am not implying that the Palestinians are perfect. It’s just the fact that Israel is the occupying force and they don’t want peace.

It's not about peace.It is about eliminating these kind of organizations.I cannot understand how is Hamas any good to Palestine? Since its existence they are engaging in conflict.There has not been anyone that has the potential to negotiate and give the Palestinians their own state. .To build a state and not bother with Israel anymore.
To not have any kind of contact for a time if that is what will save the lives of the future generation.

Their actions made it clear.
I mean Hamas wouldn’t be what it is today without Israel support.

I don't argue about what Israel is doing in this war.I don't know how else to explain that to you.They are not different in how they want this conflict to end ones and for all.

Israel: here some money and everything you want and go make some troubles with the Palestinians authorities:
Hamas: oh that’s kind of you. We will do that thanks
Israel: it worked thanks, can we talk about the future?
Hamas: sure we want our lands back?
Israel: no we can’t do that
Hamas: well we will fight until we achieve victory
Israel: well then we will close you out of the world
Hamas: no wall can stop us.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

Good conversation you made there.
You should do cartoons..

The people that are in Israel government doesn’t want peace, because the only way for peace is to give the Palestinians what they own. And sadly that won’t happen

No one wants to take what is there to take , negotiate , change territory and pay financial debt toward each other , close the borders, no contact and life goes on.
I mean it's very obvious what is the solution

what events are you referring to ?

Have you heard about Mosab Hassan Yousef ?
He is the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef,co-founder of Hamas.
He is going against his own people,his Father said that anyone can kill him , and he will not come for vandetta.
What kind of moral compas does man need to posses to say that? Ever wondered?

yes they had a bull dozer to run through the fence. Their power was erased in a couple days

Oh , so where is the military equipment from? They have power , since months have passed since Israel is in Gaza.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Nono , no one respects the UN as you yourself are seeing.Why is UN even there if it does not apply justice equally everywhere.What kind of force is the UN and for what use is its existence anywhere? For 8 months they just talk..

Well USA has a great deal of guilt her, since they use their veto vote to stop any actions the last decades. And we all know the west follow what the west is doing
And don’t forget the aipac support for the election has a lot to do here. Israel has a lot of power in the decisions the states takes.

We don't have the unity as a race to overcome the pressure of morality and build ourselfs a better life for the generations to follow.

i think we have that unity in mankind. The problem is that the people in power doesn’t want that, like I said before their interests are more important than peace

It's not about peace.It is about eliminating these kind of organizations.I cannot understand how is Hamas any good to Palestine? Since its existence they are engaging in conflict.There has not been anyone that has the potential to negotiate and give the Palestinians their own state. .To build a state and not bother with Israel anymore.
To not have any kind of contact for a time if that is what will save the lives of the future generation

I get what you are trying to say it’s just Hamas isn’t the issue. This conflict was even before Hamas existed. As long Palestinians want self determination which the right wing Zionist don’t want.
Let’s say Hamas is gone this wil conflict will still go on because Israel doesn’t want to share the land they posses. They want all of it as you can see that clearly in the West Bank.

I don't argue about what Israel is doing in this war.I don't know how else to explain that to you.They are not different in how they want this conflict to end ones and for all.

Then we agree on one point

Have you heard about Mosab Hassan Yousef ?
He is the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef,co-founder of Hamas.
He is going against his own people,his Father said that anyone can kill hin , and he will not come for vandetta.

Yeah I have seen him on some interviews. He is full of hatred and lies a lot. A dangerous figure I to be honest. But yeah don’t know much about himself other then that Israel has ramped him up after 7 October and some claim he work or worked for the secret service of Israel. But don’t know how much that is true.

No one wants to take what is there to take , negotiate , change territory and pay financial debt toward each other , close the borders, no contact and live goes on.
I mean it's very obvious what is the solution

I get what you are trying to say but that isn’t gonna be easy. For multiple reason

Because where are you gonna draw the borders If Israel aren’t prepared to give lands?
If the borders are at the same then it will as noting changed before 7 October

Good conversation you made there.
You should do cartoons.

Haha I mean I did try my best.
But yeah their decisions just backfired in their face and use it now as a excuse to commit a genocide

Oh , so where is the military equipment from? They have power , since months have passed since Israel is in Gaza.

sure they have weapons and some advantages but nothing compared with Israel. They don’t have tanks, drones, airplanes. No AI helping them. I mean if they can trap some soldiers they see that as a victory. One small blow to the IDF at a time

Palestinians are in this situation for a long time and they are resilient. And there will always be a resistance against the occupation.

 

[dybmh]

For example Palestinians that are prisoners but clearly they are just hostages would get released.

They're detained for a maximum of 45 days. Then they are released. Your own country would do the same thing if they were in the same situation. In order to judge accurately, whether Israel's actions are wrong, immoral, etc.. one would need to know the circumstances which produced the detainment? What is the individual's connection to the Oct. 7th attack or subsequent attacks on Israel which are occurring multiple times each day.

 

[dybmh]

there will always be a resistance against the occupation.

... but that doesn't mean that the resistance is morally or ethically sound. In order to judge accurately, one would need to know the circumstances which produced the occupation, and, they would need to know the reasons why the occupation continues. For example: Israel cannot, per international law, simply leave the occupied territories unless there is a viable governing body who is taking responsibility for the Palestinians who live there. Did you know that?

 

[dybmh]

Another attempt to lie about their atrocities

Israeli army edits video of Palestinian medic its troops shot dead to misleadingly show she was a 'human shield for Hamas'

Edited clip condemned by Palestinians and rights activists as attempt to ‘justify’ 21-year-old Razan al-Najjar’s death

www.independent.co.uk

Do you know what happened to her? It's a tragedy, but, her death is justified. Unless you can answer: who? what? when-and-where? how? and why? You cannot accurately judge any of it as an atrocity. It doesn't matter what an individual is wearing, if they approach the border fence in contradiction to the warnings: "Stop or we'll shoot"... that is threatening behavior especially when it is accompanied by an angry mob. And this ignores what was happening in 2018 when this death occurred, and it is ignoring the ongoing perfidy of the Palestinian resistance. Perfidy is war crime. Perfidy - Wikipedia. The Palestinian resistance has a history, documented, to this day, of impersonating medics and traveling in ambulances. Just because an individual looks like a woman and looks like a medic, that doesn't mean they are not coming to kill you.

I think your heart is in the right place, sincerely. But, where is your rational critical thought? Do you actually know what's happening in Israel and Gaza? Or, do you automatically believe whatever you're hearing?

Listen, the same thing happened here in America on Jan 6th 2021. One of the angry Pro-Trump mob, a woman, was shot and killed because she did not heed the warnings by the Secret Service. The parallels between the lunatic fringe of the far right here in America, and the anti-israel mob are profound. Cease-fire-now is no different than Stop-the-steal. The same intellectual faults which produced Jan 6th attack and Qanon conspiracy theories are being exploited in order to whip up anti-israel sentiments. It's a mirror image. And it's sad. The political left have become the ones they hate. They didn't learn a very important lesson about how any one, including themselves, can become just like the insane Maga mob.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

... but that doesn't mean that the resistance is morally or ethically sound. In order to judge accurately, one would need to know the circumstances which produced the occupation, and, they would need to know the reasons why the occupation continues. For example: Israel cannot, per international law, simply leave the occupied territories unless there is a viable governing body who is taking responsibility for the Palestinians who live there. Did you know that?

Sure a resistance has also to comply to certain laws, but if there is not occupation there will be no resistance . A morally or ethically resistant is not the case her for the west since they already labeled them as a terrorist organization.

Yes I am aware the occupying force is responsible for the territories. Even if there is a a government body in Gaza , Israel is still responsible for it. I think it has to do with certain things a population need to survive.

 

[dybmh]

What a logic. So when people are in a prison in the us and they are happy and laughing then they arent in a priosn?.

May I please invite you to discuss this in a different thread which I created prior the Sabbath?

Open-Air-Prison: False Advertising or Fair Assessment?

The anti-israel point of view, from my observations, is little more than a marketing campaign which is exploiting the good will and compassionate hearts of the uninformed masses. An excellent example of this compelling, yet completely false, advertising campaign is the slogan...

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There is no way of getting out...

Palestinians were able to leave every single day. They are not in a prison, because they are allowed to leave. No one is forcing them to stay. However, they lack opportunities for social upward mobility. That's true. And I would love to address that problem and give them the opportunities they deserve as human beings. If only they would stop shooting... and compromise. They won't. Why? because they have been taught for over a thousand years: "Never compromise, martyr yourself instead." The Palestinians in power enforce this rule and indoctrinate the children to prefer death especially in pursuit of killing Jews.

 

[dybmh]

Sure a resistance has also to comply to certain laws, but if there is not occupation there will be no resistance . A morally or ethically resistant is not the case her for the west since they already labeled them as a terrorist organization.

Yes I am aware the occupying force is responsible for the territories. Even if there is a a government body in Gaza , Israel is still responsible for it. I think it has to do with certain things a population need to survive.

Right. If there is not an occupation, then there isn't a resistance. But Israel is not allowed to leave. So. Why is Israel being criticized harshly for occupying? It's not occupation by choice! They are required to stay.

We are not conquerors, we're not colonizers. We're immigrants. We purchased land, and the previous owners took our money and then attacked trying to seize back the property they sold by force. What are we supposed to do? Let them kill us?

Have you read the Peel Commission's report in the 1930s? It does an excellent job of detailing the reasons for the conflict and the absolute necessity for borders separating the Jewish people from the Arabs who consider themselves duty-bound to killing us all. Once it has been established that Israel needs a border, a refuge, from those who will never stop in their pursuit against us, then, it can be understood why Jewish people cannot live safely on individual parcels of land scattered within the previously British-Mandated "Palestine".

That's why the State of Israel was established. The world gathered and realized that the Jewish people need a refuge. Even if we purchase land legally in our ancestral homeland, we are not able to escape the mob trying to push us into the sea. We need borders. It's not a want. It's a need.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Do you know what happened to her? It's a tragedy, but, her death is justified. Unless you can answer: who? what? when-and-where? how? and why? You cannot accurately judge any of it as an atrocity. It doesn't matter what an individual is wearing, if they approach the border fence in contradiction to the warnings: "Stop or we'll shoot"... that is threatening behavior especially when it is accompanied by an angry mob. And this ignores what was happening in 2018 when this death occurred, and it is ignoring the ongoing perfidy of the Palestinian resistance. Perfidy is war crime. Perfidy - Wikipedia. The Palestinian resistance has a history, documented, to this day, of impersonating medics and traveling in ambulances. Just because an individual looks like a medic, that doesn't mean they are not coming to kill you.

Sorry but the explanation of the IDF was that she was used as a human shield? After that they edit a video so to make it look like she is saying she is being used as a human shield which was a lie. The change they made is shown in the video in the article

And sorry but justifying a medic being killed is just a horrible thin to say. We are talking about trained snipers who know who they are targeting. But yeah don’t know how to respond to that.

May I please invite you to discuss this in a different thread which I created prior the Sabbath?

You mind we sticking here seeing we already talked for a bit and it’s easier to see what have said?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Right. If there is not an occupation, then there isn't a resistance. But Israel is not allowed to leave. So. Why is Israel being criticized harshly for occupying? It's not occupation by choice! They are required to stay

Because they don’t abide with the international law, taking land which isn’t theirs?
Yes they are required to stay if they don’t return the land that was taken.

We are not conquerors, we're not colonizers. We're immigrants. We purchased land, and the previous owners took our money and then attacked trying to seize back the property they sold by force. What are we supposed to do? Let them kill us?

Sorry are you saying the Zionist only purchased land and they did nothing else?

Have you read the Peel Commission's report in the 1930s? It does an excellent job of detailing the reasons for the conflict and the absolute necessity for borders separating the Jewish people from the Arabs who consider themselves duty-bound to killing us all. Once it has been established that Israel needs a border, a refuge, from those who will never stop in their pursuit against us, then, it can be understood why Jewish people cannot live safely on individual parcels of land scattered within the previously British-Mandated "Palestine

sorry but that’s factually wrongs because how can you create a Jewish state without removing Palestinians from their homes.
And that’s just dishonest thing to say, that Arabs are duty bound to kill Jews. History shows other wise. I mean I mention this in previous messages. Things changed when the Zionist provoked the people that were living there. You can’t create a Jewish state without removing from their homes
Its seems more like the Palestinians has to pay for the things the Jews endured. Again which didn’t happen under the Muslim but by others

That's why the State of Israel was established. The world gathered and realized that the Jewish people need a refuge. Even if we purchase land legally in our ancestral homeland, we are not able to escape the mob trying to push us into the sea. We need borders.

wrong again. The problem started when Zionist came in their and causing troubles
E

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

We are not conquerors, we're not colonizers. We're immigrants. We purchased land, and the previous owners took our money and then attacked trying to seize back the property they sold by force. What are we supposed to do? Let them kill us?

Don’t know if you can watch this. But this show that the Zionist had a purpose to take over with violence if necessary. Arabs were seen as a thread.

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I have no problems the average Jew had not bad intentions. Tho the Zionist in charge and the US and Great Britain had other plan

 

[metis]

I don't argue about what Israel is doing in this war.I don't know how else to explain that to you.They are not different in how they want this conflict to end ones and for all.

Abd THAT is an extremely important point as which country in previous history wouldn't react as Israel has done?

 

[dybmh]

Don’t know if you can watch this. But this show that the Zionist had a purpose to take over with violence if necessary. Arabs were seen as a thread.

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I have no problems the average Jew had not bad intentions. Tho the Zionist in charge and the US and Great Britain had other plan

I'll check it out.

Because they don’t abide with the international law, taking land which isn’t theirs?

the law is complicated. The most important things in any court of law:

1. Both sides are heard
2. The judge is neutral
3. If there is an accusation of a crime, there is a review of the evidence to be sure that there is enough to make a judgement

Agreed?

Regarding "taking land which isn't theirs"? Do you have facts on this? I have researched it myself and found the historical record almost completely refutes the claims made by the Palestinians. It's not that they're lying. It's simply that have been taught a false version of history and it's highly rewarding to believe it and it's extremely painful to believe the truth.

And sorry but justifying a medic being killed is just a horrible thin to say.

I agree it's horrible. But, the way a person is dressed doesn't change anything. They're dressed like a medic. That doesn't mean they are not a threat.

We are talking about trained snipers who know who they are targeting. But yeah don’t know how to respond to that.

Not true. I did respond to it. See below. I wrote:

​

"It doesn't matter what an individual is wearing, if they approach the border fence in contradiction to the warnings: "Stop or we'll shoot"... that is threatening behavior especially when it is accompanied by an angry mob."​

​

And I also wrote:

"the same thing happened here in America on Jan 6th 2021. One of the angry Pro-Trump mob, a woman, was shot and killed because she did not heed the warnings by the Secret Service."​

​

You certainly don't need to agree with me or with my reasons. But, I don't think it's fair to say I don't know how to respond. I did respond.

The first step in understanding what happened to Razzan Al-Najjar on Jun 1 2018 is to learn about what was happening in that time and at that place, then, try to imagine yourself there while it is happening. It's just like any other story. Put yourself in the story and imagine it in your mind. Doing so accurately requires details. Lacking the details it's impossible to judge accurately. However, I think the details are available if one is willing to do the work collecting them. When I do that, when I do the hard work of collecting the facts, and emptying myself of preconceived notions, establishing myself as a neutral observer in that time and at that place, yes, the shooter was justified. It's terrible. I wish that it didn't happen. But, I would counsel any other to do the same thing regardless of whether they are Israeli shooting at a Palestinian or a Palestinian shooting at an Israeli, or a Jordanian shooting at a Syrian. Or an American Secret Service Agent shooting at an American protester.

Maybe I can make this a little bit more simple? Have you heard of the term "profiling"? "Profiling" is a word that become popular after 9/11. "Profiling" is where an individual is evaluated as more or less threatening based on their appearance, and their cultural background. "Profiling" in that way does NOT work. Security professionals know this. We do not "profile" appearance and cultural background. We profile behavior. The determination shoot or don't shoot is based on the individual's actions. That's all. How they're dressed does not matter. If we are focused on how they are dressed, then we are distracted, in a manner of speaking. Again, The Palestinian resistance has a long history of perfidy ( a war crime ).

Razzan Al-Najjar on Jun 1 2018 was behaving in a threatening manner. That's why the shooter was justified. If you cannot imagine it, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. It means you weren't there, and you don't have the resources, currently, to place yourself in that situation from the perspective of the one charged with maintaining the integrity of the border fence.

 

[dybmh]

Sorry are you saying the Zionist only purchased land and they did nothing else?

I'm saying it's not stolen. Not that we did nothing else.

I'm saying we purchased land. Then we were attacked. We tried to make peace, repeatedly, the Arabs would not stop. The British studied the conflict between the two parties, found the Arabs at fault ( in the majority of cases ). The British proposed a two State solution. The Jewish immigrants accepted it in spite of the fact that the land which was offered would be extremely difficult to defend, but, all we wanted was peace. Yes there were some extremists in the Zionist council, but, they were not in the majority. Some of that land was purchased, some it wasn't. The Jewish immigrants agreed to give up land that was purchased legally because the priority was making peace.

The Arabs, on the other hand, would not compromise. "No. No Jewish State. Jews are not permitted here. The Quran says they will always be the losers, because they do not acknowledge Muhammad as supreme. They must submit to us. And. We were promised the entire Arabian peninsula for our contribution in WW1! You, Britain, would not have won the war without us! We had an agreement!" ( the details of their agreement are debatable. And. Britain also had an agreement with us, the Jewish immigrants. We also fought for Britain in WW1. That's the argument brought by the extremists in the Zionist council at that time. )

So, the Arabs tried to push us into the sea. And they failed. They tried again, and the failed. They've been trying to push us into the sea for over 100 years. They keep failing. We are surrounded, outnumbered, by the grace of God Almighty, we are winning each and every time. This is why many Christians changed their minds about the Jewish people. It is difficult for a religious person to deny the hand of God working in the region on the side of the Israelis.

Regardless.

The land which was not purchased, was surrendered by the Palestinian leaders themselves excluding 3 towns, by my research. The Arabs started a war, then, they agreed to surrender. Part of that agreement included leaving many of their towns. The towns which were chosen for this were negotiated by both sides. The Arabs demonstrated, showed the world, that Israel needs defensible borders to protect themselves from the Arabs who will not stop, never stop, because their holy book and their religious preachers have infected them with a terrible purpose. Those towns needed to be cleared in order to create a safe space. That's not theft. That's what happens when one country attacks another and loses, attacks again and loses, attacks again and loses, attacks again and loses, attacks again and loses. There's only one solution. The attackers need to be removed. That's how the war of independence ended. Had the Palestinians not surrendered, they would have been wiped out. But it would have been their own choice. They started the war.

The simple truth is the Palestinian resistance has broken every peace treaty, every cease-fire, they've ever made. There was a cease-fire in place on Oct 6th. What changed? Why did they attack on Oct. 7th? Do you know? It was because of a parade. That's all it takes for them to break their "cease-fire". And how did they break it? Burning people alive. Intentionally, parents burned alive with their children, holding them in their arms. Intentionally.

All they need to do is stop. Stop attacking us. Everything changes after they admit The State of Israel exists. But they cannot do that without either denying their religion or reinterpreting it without the need for Muhammad to be supreme.

 

[dybmh]

Tho the Zionist in charge and the US and Great Britain had other plan

Ah. I've written a lot already. I'm sorry, but my time here on the forum this morning is expired. I'm very busy. I wish I had more time. Not just for this. ~sigh~

Please forgive this question? Is English your native language? If not, do you know what I mean if I say "conspiracy theory"? I mean no dis-respect. But, there is a logical fallacy relating to a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory depends on compounding confidence, but that's not what's happening. In a conspiracy theory, each of the pieces of evidence do not actually increase the confidence of the proposition. They actually decrease the confidence, but the individual who believes it isn't "doing the math", so to speak.

If I have two interdependent, related, pieces of evidence, both of which are 85% likely to be true. When those two are brought together, the confidence decreases. It doesn't increase.

0.85 * 0.85 = 0.7225

The confidence decreases because the pieces of evidence rely on each other.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

the law is complicated. The most important things in any court of law:

1. Both sides are heard
2. The judge is neutral
3. If there is an accusation of a crime, there is a review of the evidence to be sure that there is enough to make a judgement

Agreed?

Well I think that’s reasonable

I'll check it out.

This is a clear example that the Zionist were supported by people that had an agenda. It’s in their best interest to make sure the Palestinians had not say in what the future holds

Regarding "taking land which isn't theirs"? Do you have facts on this? I have researched it myself and found the historical record almost completely refutes the claims made by the Palestinians. It's not that they're lying. It's simply that have been taught a false version of history and it's highly rewarding to believe it and it's extremely painful to believe the truth.

The naqba ?

agree it's horrible. But, the way a person is dressed doesn't change anything. They're dressed like a medic. That doesn't mean they are not a threat.

so it’s okay for a sniper to kill a medic who isn’t armed?

Not true. I did respond to it. See below. I wrote:
"It doesn't matter what an individual is wearing, if they approach the border fence in contradiction to the warnings: "Stop or we'll shoot"... that is threatening behavior especially when it is accompanied by an angry mob."

i was saying that I don’t know how to respond to that. Your claim that snipers told her that she had to stop then we will shoot, is not something IDF claims. What we do know is that IDF manipulated a video of her to say that she was there to die as a human shield. If it’s justified why would they try to manipulate a video?
Easy answer. They don’t care who they shoot.

I'm saying it's not stolen. Not that we did nothing else.

I'm saying we purchased land. Then we were attacked. We tried to make peace, repeatedly, the Arabs would not stop.

Are you saying that the Zionist came in Palestine and were peaceful until the time the Arabs nation attacked you?

Some of that land was purchased, some it wasn't

some it wasn’t? I am confused. Did they stole lands or not?

The British studied the conflict between the two parties,

like I showed before their intention was to make sure they kept the power because of their interest. So I don’t take that argument not serieus. Let alone the fact it backfired to their face when the

we wanted was peace. Yes there were some extremists in the Zionist council,

sure the average Jew does want peace but their desires to want to live in peace goes against the extreme Zionist who were in charge. And that’s where the issue lies.

The towns which were chosen for this were negotiated by both sides. The Arabs demonstrated, showed the world, that Israel needs defensible borders to protect themselves from the Arabs who will not stop, never stop, because their holy book and their religious preachers have infected them with a terrible purpose. Those towns needed to be cleared in order to create a safe space. That's not theft. That's

That’s funny. If the Zionist want to create a Jewish state how will you do that without making borders. This was always the intention. Create a Jewish state with border and in order to accomplish that Palestinians has to been removed. And yes this is called a theft

Don’t if you ever heard of a Jew called montegu?

Montagu Memo on British Government's Anti-Semitism

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

He warned that you cannot create a Jewish state without removing Palestinians, he was right

The simple truth is the Palestinian resistance has broken every peace treaty, every cease-fire, they've ever made. There was a cease-fire in place on Oct 6th. What changed? Why did they attack on Oct. 7th? Do you know? It was because of a parade. That's all it takes for them to break their "cease-fire". And how did they break it? Burning people alive. Intentionally, parents burned alive with their children, holding them in their arms. Intentionally.

Sorry but that is just a lie. If you think expanding in West Bank during peace talk is wanting peace then you live in a glass house. Let alone the fact that they made Hamas to divede the Palestinians? That doesn’t sound like wanting peace.

All they need to do is stop. Stop attacking us. Everything changes after they admit The State of Israel exists. But they cannot do that without either denying their religion or reinterpreting it without the need for Muhammad to be supreme.

Better not to bring religion in to the conversation. It’s a sad attempt to put the blame on them. Which is weird why for centuries Muslims and Jews lived in peace. Also this shows that the Zionist aren’t people of Judaism. The Zionist have hijacked that religion. The true Jews are the traditional Jews which lived in peace with Muslims for centuries. But yeah I can understand why Zionist making this argument is because they are losing the fight.


I

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Ah. I've written a lot already. I'm sorry, but my time here on the forum this morning is expired. I'm very busy. I wish I had more time. Not just for this. ~sigh~

Please forgive this question? Is English your native language? If not, do you know what I mean if I say "conspiracy theory"? I mean no dis-respect. But, there is a logical fallacy relating to a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory depends on compounding confidence, but that's not what's happening. In a conspiracy theory, each of the pieces of evidence do not actually increase the confidence of the proposition. They actually decrease the confidence, but the individual who believes it isn't "doing the math", so to speak.

If I have two interdependent, related, pieces of evidence, both of which are 85% likely to be true. When those two are brought together, the confidence decreases. It doesn't increase.

No my native language is Dutch and yes I know what conspiracy means.
I mean a lot of historians agree what I just said so I don’t know what you mean?

So tell me what did I say that’s factual wrong.

Did the Jews stole land , yes you admitted they did.

Were their violence committed to Palestinian.
Yea there were, multiple armed Zionist were considered a terrorist organization because they committed atrocities.
The expelling of 750 000 Palestinians

Were the Zionist with the support of the us and Great Britain determined to create a Jewish state well knowing they would have to remove Palestinians

Does the have a history of lying to hide their atrocities? Yea they are

This is all clear to me and most historians would agree with that.

 

[Dimi95]

Abd THAT is an extremely important point as which country in previous history wouldn't react as Israel has done?

I did not refer to it in that sense.It's not about that , it's about ending it once and for all.We have an old proverb from where i come from : "If grandma was grandpa , then..." Well you know.

I expect Israel to find the solution , not the other way around.
They came out as a small country with a small number and advanced more then all the Arab countries together in that time.But they sensed power and it seems that it took them.
Why not evacuate Gaza with International support?
Why is the UN not an ally when neccessary? But no one wants to fight other people's wars and risk the life of its own..
The question that bothers the decent man is when will end the agony of the Gazans ? Where should these people go, please tell me..

I understand the military operation , i understand the logistic behind it.There are not too many solutions.These tunnels in Gaza may be the same tunnels that Alexander the Great used when he was on his conquest.Israel is aware of how much of a problem are these tunnels.
How is then bombing a hospital not a war crime? They are in position , and not in defence and they already entered enemy teritory.Why the hell did they bomb the hospital?

They are military trained people , they have the advantage , so their mistake is -:Gaza not been evacuated.If they did that and maintained control in the same time,they would have been in a better position to engage in more direct operations.But that would need time , and Israel is not so patient as it seems.

I understand what kind of risk is Hamas , but i also see how aggresive is Israel in this war.

One thing that i don't agree with Mosab Hassan Yousef are the military possibilities and how to act differently.
So yes , this is personal to him and he doesn't seem to care what people say about that and it may be that the personal took a bit of him

He tells the truth however in many other cases.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Were their violence committed to Palestinian.
Yea there were, multiple armed Zionist were considered a terrorist organization because they committed atrocities.
The expelling of 750 000 Palestinians

Just to add to this.

Zionist political violence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

These are the Zionist terrorist organizations that killed, burned houses, suicidal bombings, attacks on different city’s outside palastine, for example in Egypt. The crazy part of these events , the Jews deny that these people were just a small part of the population. That’s a lie since these were in control of everything. They had to fonish what really Zionist mean. And to top it all after Israel was accepted by the west. People that were a member in the so called small minority, they end up taking high positions in government. I don’t know his name but I think one of them became a prime minister of Israel at some point.
Similar to the minister of security which is Itamar Ben-Gvir that’s was convicted for association with a terrorist organization. It seems like there is a pattern. The more extreme you are, you will rewarded for it.

 

[Lyndon]

This would all end very quickly if Israel just surrendered since they are by far the more guilty party in this conflict