Why Islam, Christianity and modern Judaism are all apostate religious institutions.

[Simplelogic]

that's called "adding a commandment." Well done. Good night.

I guess you could view it that way if you want to. Seems more like the same command being applied elsewhere to me. And thanks for the honest and blunt debate. Will pick it up some other time if possible.

 

[The road to light1]

There are people who don't understand the meaning of the verses, or if they misread the material or part of a verse, claim, "they were modified and distorted by humans". They also may not know about the talmud which explains everything about the Torah.

See, same argument.

Actually,"the Quran has everything explained in it?".


1. (16:89): "....... And We have revealed to you that Glorious Book which is a clear exposition of everything and is guidance, mercy and glad tidings for the believers."

To illustrate what I said ,"Hadith explains the Quran".

(3:164): "Indeed Allah has already done a favor to the believers, when He raised amongst them a messenger from themselves to recite to them His verses, purify them and teach them the book and the wisdom."

"This aya explains one of the most important responsibilities of the beloved Blessed Prophet: to teach the Book. This responsibility consists of not just teaching the pronunciation and reading of the Book [as that is already covered in the first responsibility, i.e. ‘to recite to them His verses’] "
"Proficiency in the Arabic language alone cannot help us grasp the meaning of the Qur’an. Remember, the sahaba (companions of prophet Muhammad), who spoke fluent Arabic, always turned to the Blessed Prophet to understand the deeper meanings of the Qur’an. The Qur’an’s words and its meanings were explained both verbally and practically by the Blessed Prophet. These sayings and explanations of the Blessed Prophet are called Hadith and provide us with the the most authentic commentary of the Qur’an. "quote.

"they were modified and distorted by humans".Accordingly, I am not saying this out of my mind , you know.This is in the Qur'an.


Sahih International

Surat An - Nisa verse (46)
"Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few."

Surat Al-Baqara verse (75)

"Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?"
Verse (79)
"So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

Surat Al-Ma'idah verse (13)

"So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good."
Verse (41)
"O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment."

Surat Ali Imran verse (71)
Sahih International
"O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?"
Verse (187)
"And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased."

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not clear on what you are saying. What are your beliefs regarding the Torah?

That covers a whole lot of topics, so, there isn't one answer to that question. My point was actually, it is subjective as to how one might define, a ''modern religionist'', etc. For example, I'm a creationist, that's traditional; however, I don't keep various laws in the Torah. Compare that to someone who keeps various laws in the Torah, but they are not a creationist; who is more of a 'modern religionist'? It's not completely objective as to how we define those labels/concepts, so, there is no need for me to justify my positions on various Bible topics. They can be argued, though, of course.

 

[pro4life]

Not a single Torah is preserved to this day. All have been adulterated.

 

[psychoslice]

Why would anyone follow laws that are so ugly and evil ??.

 

[rosends]

"they were modified and distorted by humans".Accordingly, I am not saying this out of my mind , you know.This is in the Qur'an.

So when I say "the Quran was modified and distorted by humans" and that everything is explained in the torah via the talmud (in the same way that you say everything was explained through the hadiths) you will see how persuasive your argument is.

 

[Flankerl]

actually, you wrote "This is why He commended His people to dispose or bury their fecal matter" and used it to support the contention that God commanded his people to limit exposure to fecal matter (post 43). Now you say that it is limited in whom it applies to and when. So you are saying God DIDN'T command his people to limit exposure to fecal matter in general. So your argument fails.

It's beautiful isn't it?

 

[Simplelogic]

In your first Torah quote, God forbits to add man made laws. Where does He say that He wont change his own laws, that he wont send a messenger with different laws, or that the Torah will be the true law for the whole mankind until eternity?

No mention of God ever changing His previous commands or adding to them. David calls the law of Moses "perfect", which further confirms its lack of need for additional commands.

The law (lit Torah) of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm: 19:7

Also, notice how God declares that He is not an evolutionary God:

I the LORD do not change. Mal 3: 6

Every future prophecy in the Bible pertains to His people remembering His laws and doing them. The same laws given at Mt. Sinai. This is actually what causes the final restoration of God's people. There is no concept of God giving different laws in the text at all.

 

[Simplelogic]

So when I say "the Quran was modified and distorted by humans" and that everything is explained in the torah via the talmud (in the same way that you say everything was explained through the hadiths) you will see how persuasive your argument is.

Both your religions are fake reinterpretations of God's commandments.

 

[raph]

No mention of God ever changing His previous commands or adding to them. David calls the law of Moses "perfect", which further confirms its lack of need for additional commands.

The law (lit Torah) of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm: 19:7

Also, notice how God declares that He is not an evolutionary God:

I the LORD do not change. Mal 3: 6

Every future prophecy in the Bible pertains to His people remembering His laws and doing them. The same laws given at Mt. Sinai. This is actually what causes the final restoration of God's people. There is no concept of God giving different laws in the text at all.

Something that is perfect for jews XXXX B.C. is not necessarily perfect for all humanity for ever. Humanity has changed in the last 3000 years, and if humanity changes, a perfect law would also change. One example: Death penalty for almost anything might be perfect in a society, that can't efford prisons. But it is not necessarily perfect in a society, that has many good prisons.

God does not need to change, to teach different people different laws. Just like a school teacher does not change, when he teaches kids of different ages different math.

Also, your Holy book says, that Noah could eat pork. SO God "changed his mind"

 

[Simplelogic]

It's beautiful isn't it?

This is because you only think the way your Rabbi's have trained you to think about Torah.

 

[Simplelogic]

Something that is perfect for jews XXXX B.C. is not necessarily perfect for all humanity for ever. Humanity has changed in the last 3000 years, and if humanity changes, a perfect law would also change. One example: Death penalty for almost anything might be perfect in a society, that can't efford prisons. But it is not necessarily perfect in a society, that has many good prisons.

God does not need to change, to teach different people different laws. Just like a school teacher does not change, when he teaches kids of different ages different math.

You are free to believe this way. I'm just saying that this isn't what the Hebrew scriptures teach. They teach that Israel will be restored in the last days when they all return to God's ORIGINAL COMMANDMENTS. There is no way around this in the text.

 

[metis]

Both your religions are fake reinterpretations of God's commandments.

And how could you possibly know that? In order to know this with any certainty, you would literally have had to be there yourself to see hear this or read this directly from God.

 

[Simplelogic]

And how could you possibly know that? In order to know this with any certainty, you would literally have had to be there yourself to see hear this or read this directly from God.

Because you all find ways to reject and add commandments to His Torah. This makes your religion false according to the written Torah. Its that easy.

 

[Flankerl]

This is because you only think the way your Rabbi's have trained you to think about Torah.

We've been over this, my congregation doesn't even have a Rabbi.

 

[Simplelogic]

We've been over this, my congregation doesn't even have a Rabbi.

Yet you are very preoccupied with defending mainstream rabbinic positions on almost all texts. I could care less whether you have a personal Rabbi. You're clearly defending your spiritual sugar daddies.

 

[Akivah]

Except I am not the one telling everyone they need to follow my interpretation exclusively. YOU AND YOUR RABBIS ARE!!

Everyone tries to tell you what to do. Your best friend gives their opinion of your actions. The president tells people what to do. Muslims want to tell you what to do. So why this anger against our Rabbis?

 

[rosends]

Both your religions are fake reinterpretations of God's commandments.

You call them fake interpretations. I call them understanding as a result of meditation, contemplation, thought and prayer. If that's good enough for you, it should be good enough for the rabbis.

 

[Akivah]

You don't understand the Hebrew use of hyperbole I assume? When God says "every green herb", did God mean Adam was to munch on poison ivy and other poisonous plants? Come on.

There you go again, making interpretations to the actual text.

 

[Simplelogic]

There you go again, making interpretations to the actual text.

There is nothing wrong with interpreting the text. When a group of people get together and claim exclusive authority to "interpret" the text is when it becomes a controlling false religion.