Why would it matter if Jesus had risen from the dead?

[PureX]

I find its important to believe what's said.

Why?

 

[John1.12]

Why?

Because things that are clear are less misconstrued compared to inference.

 

[PruePhillip]

Jesus' message and promise was that God's divine spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity dwells within us all, and that if we will allow ourselves to become the embodiment of that spirit, we will be healed and saved from ourselves. But we (humanity) rejected that message because it exposed us for what we currently are, and so we killed the messenger. But the message didn't die, and the revelation and promise it conveys remains 'alive'. As does that divine spirit within us all. Which is why, in the story of Jesus life and death, he rose up, again, in the end.

It's a STORY, people. A story with a message to convey. The historical accuracy is irrelevant to the story's purpose of conveying that message and promise, to us.

Then your faith is in vain. This is not what the bible says.
If we rise metaphorically then we rot in the grave in reality.

 

[PureX]

Because things that are clear are less misconstrued compared to inference.

How can something be "clear" without inferring meaning? Isn't it the inferred meaning that is being "clarified"?

 

[Colt]

If Jesus do come from God it would not be to difficult for God to make it happen probably.
But the thing is, Was Jesus in two different bodies ? Jesus born as Jesus we know of today, and as the recurected jesus, but in a different body?
@Barry Johnson you may have an answer to this question?
And yes my thought can of course be wrong (i do not know christian Gospel good enough for deep discussion)

Jesus returned on his own volition because only his mortal body was killed. He returned in the form that we will be resurrected in because after his mortal death, Jesus was simultaneously following the post-mortal path that we will all follow on the "mansion worlds". During the post-mortal ascension Jesus appeared a number of times to his disciples and other believers before finally ascending to his rightful place on high in God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Jesus returned on his own volition because only his mortal body was killed. He returned in the form that we will be resurrected in because after his mortal death, Jesus was simultaneously following the post-mortal path that we will all follow on the "mansion worlds". During the post-mortal ascension Jesus appeared a number of times to his disciples and other believers before finally ascending to his rightful place on high in God.

Thank you @cOLTER for explaining this to me.

 

[PureX]

Then your faith is in vain. This is not what the bible says.
If we rise metaphorically then we rot in the grave in reality.

That doesn't even make sense. The Bible is just a collection of words on paper that have to be interpreted to convey any meaning to us, at all. The words are merely a form of ideological conveyance; that requires our interpretation. Nearly every word written has multiple definitions that we must then determine by their relative context to the words around them. There is no way of reading the Bible that does not involve your personal interpretation of those words ... and mine. Pretending or presuming that somehow your personal interpretation of the word-text is not interpretive, while mine is, or is less interpretive while mine is more, is simply illogical and untrue.

Reading is ALL interpretation.

 

[1213]

...So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?...

It proves he was speaking the truth.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I consider that really sad that their belief in Jesus hinges in Him being raised from the dead, as it was His Life and His death in the cross that really mattered.

What's there to believe in if Jesus was just another man who died like all of the rest of us have or will? Without the supernatural element, Jesus is just another voice from history, and his is just another opinion that has to be judged on its merit - not any alleged superhuman authority or inside knowledge. There'd be no need to know anything else about who said them.

What do you think the fate of those words would have been had they not come wrapped in the supernatural? My guess is that they'd have the same meaning to everybody as they do to nonbelievers, which in my case is very little. Love one another. Very nice platitude. Make sure to look before you leap as well, which is also good advice and also looks good on a greeting card or in a fortune cookie.

 

[PruePhillip]

That doesn't even make sense. The Bible is just a collection of words on paper that have to be interpreted to convey any meaning to us, at all. The words are merely a form of ideological conveyance; that requires our interpretation. Nearly every word written has multiple definitions that we must then determine by their relative context to the words around them. There is no way of reading the Bible that does not involve your personal interpretation of those words ... and mine. Pretending or presuming that somehow your personal interpretation of the word-text is not interpretive, while mine is, or is less interpretive while mine is more, is simply illogical and untrue.

Reading is ALL interpretation.

The heart of our bible is the story of Jesus. Many ignore His words but His life and example
cannot be ignored. These words survive any translation.

 

[PureX]

What's there to believe in if Jesus was just another man who died like all of the rest of us have or will?

The message and the promise that his story conveys: that a divine spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity dwells within us all, and that if we will allow ourselves to become the embodiment of it, we will be healed and saved from ourselves.

Without the supernatural element, Jesus is just another voice from history, and his is just another opinion that has to be judged on its merit - not any alleged superhuman authority or inside knowledge. There'd be no need to know anything else about who said them.

Humans use artifice to convey beauty, and profundity, and reverence. I'd sure hate to live in a world where these things are ignored and dismissed just because they are artificial! Is that the world-view you are promoting, here?

What do you think the fate of those words would have been had they not come wrapped in the supernatural?

You mean wrapped in artifice? I think they would have escaped our collective attention, sadly. Because we are so easily diverted and distracted.

My guess is that they'd have the same meaning to everybody as they do to nonbelievers, which in my case is very little. Love one another. Very nice platitude. Make sure to look before you leap as well, which is also good advice and also looks good on a greeting card or in a fortune cookie.

How sad for you.

 

[PureX]

The heart of our bible is the story of Jesus. Many ignore His words but His life and example
cannot be ignored. These words survive any translation.

It can all be ignored, as attested to by some of the other posts right here on this thread. But I have noticed that a lot of religious Christians get lost in "believing in" the story's artifice, and thereby missing the message. Which is equally unfortunate.

 

[John1.12]

How can something be "clear" without inferring meaning? Isn't it the inferred meaning that is being "clarified"?

Ok let's demonstrate .
I believe that THE adoption is the redemption of body . Ok and heres a verse that SAYS just that.
Rom 8.23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[PruePhillip]

It can all be ignored, as attested to by some of the other posts right here on this thread. But I have noticed that a lot of religious Christians get lost in "believing in" the story's artifice, and thereby missing the message. Which is equally unfortunate.

A big part of the Message is believing in it. If you read the Gospels this is
quite clear. It's mentioned about 100 times. God's work begins with believing.

 

[PureX]

Ok let's demonstrate .
I believe that THE adoption is the redemption of body . Ok and heres a verse that SAYS just that.
Rom 8.23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So you have to determine for yourself what "the body" represents in this instance, and what "redeeming it" is then referring to. I think "the body" is our dumb animal nature: fear, selfishness, confusion, and all those 'drives' that keep us in competition with each other, instead of in cooperation with each other. But within this 'dumb animal' is the spiritual reflection of divine love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity that, if we will give ourselves over to them, will heal us and save us from our dumb animal selves. But just choosing to do this is doesn't get it done. It takes persistence and practice, throughout our whole lives.

And that's what this quote is referring to: the fact that choosing the embody the divine spirit within will not immediately save us from our dumb animal nature. That will take more persistent effort.

 

[PureX]

A big part of the Message is believing in it. If you read the Gospels this is
quite clear. It's mentioned about 100 times. God's work begins with believing.

A big part of RELIGION requires our "believing in it". The Christian message itself requires no great effort to understand or believe. We can simply try it out and see if it works. We can try living our lives for a time as the embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity, and will see for ourselves that it does indeed heal us and save us. Or that it won't.

 

[PruePhillip]

A big part of RELIGION requires our "believing in it". The Christian message itself requires no great effort to understand or believe. We can simply try it out and see if it works. We can try living our lives for a time as the embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity, and will see for ourselves that it does indeed heal us and save us. Or that it won't.

You have part of it right. But you have to believe for it to make sense. Come at at critically
and it won't. I like the story of Moses and the Red Sea - the people were told to move forward
and THEN the sea would open. Regardless of whether you believe that or not is not the point,
it shows that the Old Testament too expected this of its followers. To follow it without believing
is not going to do a work in your life - and that will be obvious to others.

 

[John1.12]

So you have to determine for yourself what "the body" represents in this instance, and what "redeeming it" is then referring to. I think "the body" is our dumb animal nature: fear, selfishness, confusion, and all those 'drives' that keep us in competition with each other, instead of in cooperation with each other. But within this 'dumb animal' is the spiritual reflection of divine love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity that, if we will give ourselves over to them, will heal us and save us from our dumb animal selves. But just choosing to do this is doesn't get it done. It takes persistence and practice, throughout our whole lives.
'
And that's what this quote is referring to: the fact that choosing the embody the divine spirit within will not immediately save us from our dumb animal nature. That will take more persistent effort.

I think it means the ' body ' . it doesn't say the body 'of 'anything.

 

[John1.12]

So you have to determine for yourself what "the body" represents in this instance, and what "redeeming it" is then referring to. I think "the body" is our dumb animal nature: fear, selfishness, confusion, and all those 'drives' that keep us in competition with each other, instead of in cooperation with each other. But within this 'dumb animal' is the spiritual reflection of divine love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity that, if we will give ourselves over to them, will heal us and save us from our dumb animal selves. But just choosing to do this is doesn't get it done. It takes persistence and practice, throughout our whole lives.

And that's what this quote is referring to: the fact that choosing the embody the divine spirit within will not immediately save us from our dumb animal nature. That will take more persistent effort.

That would be wild conjecture. Nothing in the context could possibly lead to that conclusion. It SAYS The body . In context and in keeping with the entire focus of the chapter ( and the NT ) its simply the physical body . The physical body is the only thing yet redeemed . Its what every believer is waiting for .

 

[John1.12]

A big part of RELIGION requires our "believing in it". The Christian message itself requires no great effort to understand or believe. We can simply try it out and see if it works. We can try living our lives for a time as the embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity, and will see for ourselves that it does indeed heal us and save us. Or that it won't.

//We can try living our lives for a time as the embodiment of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity, and will see for ourselves that it does indeed heal us and save us. //
Whist this may make ourselves better , this has nothing to do with the Gospel message and how a person is saved from Hell .