Without trust in God, I would have no hope

[Trailblazer]

For my personal experience, when things went well I had faith in God.

It has been the same for me. I think there might be a correlation but of course there is no way to prove that.

I became an athiest in my dark night. (Child abuse by clergy, anger at God, to finding it to be a better mindset to chalk it up to the laws of nature rather than evil God who tortures children)

I have been angry at God for my suffering but I have lost by belief in God, although I lost my faith that God is actually good. However, I finally pushed through that when I realized that God was not responsible for my suffering, but rather suffering is part and parcel of life in a material world. Moreover, I never expected God to remove my suffering since it made no sense to me that God would be responsible to remove the suffering caused by other humans.

As for hope - Nature is so powerful, I'm listening to a thunderstorm as I type. Minimalism reduces stress. Embrace scarcity, enjoy each moment.

I fully agree. We had a thunderstorm here about a week ago, which is very rare for where I live. The lightening scared the bejeebers out of me but it was a reminder of the power of nature.

I love nature, I practically live for it, as I watch all the birds and wild animals on my deck who I feed and water!

 

[idea]

It has been the same for me. I think there might be a correlation but of course there is no way to prove that.

I have been angry at God for my suffering but I have lost by belief in God, although I lost my faith that God is actually good. However, I finally pushed through that when I realized that God was not responsible for my suffering, but rather suffering is part and parcel of life in a material world. Moreover, I never expected God to remove my suffering since it made no sense to me that God would be responsible to remove the suffering caused by other humans.

[/QUOTE]

To me, god with a capital G would need to be present, involved, loving - like the OT where God fights for his people, actually protects them. As a parent, I absolutely protect my kids and pick them up - even if I did not cause their pain. Any loving being would not sit and watch - a bystander isn't anything to worship to me.

I fully agree. We had a thunderstorm here about a week ago, which is very rare for where I live. The lightening scared the bejeebers out of me but it was a reminder of the power of nature.

I love nature, I practically live for it, as I watch all the birds and wild animals on my deck who I feed and water!

I needed a new place for spirituality, nature is definitely it. I feel at peace outside, or just sitting here by window listening to the rain. Nature - born of nature, part of it, evolved from it- it is enough for me.

 

[Trailblazer]

To me, god with a capital G would need to be present, involved, loving - like the OT where God fights for his people, actually protects them. As a parent, I absolutely protect my kids and pick them up - even if I did not cause their pain. Any loving being would not sit and watch - a bystander isn't anything to worship to me.

I think I was fortunate to have never believed in the God of the Old Testament since I was never a Christian before I became a Baha'i. I believe that the OT God is anthropomorphic, a creation of men. There is much symbolism in the OT but I do not take most of it literally and I do not believe that God actually did all those things it says He did. I don't think of God as 'sitting and watching' because only a human would do that, and God is not a human.

I needed a new place for spirituality, nature is definitely it. I feel at peace outside, or just sitting here by window listening to the rain. Nature - born of nature, part of it, evolved from it- it is enough for me.

I can certainly relate to that. I feel most spiritual when I am close to nature. I love rain and wind and trees and animals and all the sounds the birds and animals make. I certainly picked a good place to live for all that!

 

[Thrillobyte]

Nobody ever hears from God except the Messengers of God. God answers prayers at His own behest and at His own discretion.
God does not protect people from harm because God is not Superman.

Whether you believe that God exists or not, it will all be the same. The only difference is that if you believe God will guide you you might get guidance.
God doesn't care if we believe in Him for His own benefit since God does not need our belief since God has no needs. God only wants us to believe in Him for our own benefit. God is fully self-sufficient, above the need for any of His creatures.

But al four gospels promise, "IF you ask the Father for anything in my name he will grant it." So why doesn't God honor Jesus' promise to us?

 

[Trailblazer]

But al four gospels promise, "IF you ask the Father for anything in my name he will grant it." So why doesn't God honor Jesus' promise to us?

What do you think that means, that God will answer every prayer prayed by humans? I hope you realize what a mess that would create in the world. What if two people prayed for opposite things? How could both prayers be answered?

I don't think those verses were ever intended to be interpreted literally. Much is the Bible is figurative, not literal truth.

 

[Audie]

This is a continuation of a thread I started three months ago.
If you want to know why I would have no hope without trust in God you can read the OP of that thread:

Without God there is no hope

Please note that I was careful to change the title of this thread from Without God there is no hope to Without trust in God, I would have no hope, since I am only speaking for myself. I know that lots of people have hope without God, but I have no hope without God.

More and more I see the futility of trying to make things happen by virtue of my own free will. These are things I want but they are not fated by God to happen, at least not right now. As such, so all I can do is be patient and trust that God knows what is best for me, and that will unfold over the course of time. Without that trust in God, I would have no hope.

It is easy to have hope when you are happy and settled and have nothing to hope for, but it is not so easy when your life is up in the air.

“While a man is happy he may forget his God; but when grief comes and sorrows overwhelm him, then will he remember his Father who is in Heaven, and who is able to deliver him from his humiliations.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 50-51

That's a shame
Maybe you can see why I dont want to be like you

 

[YoursTrue]

This is a continuation of a thread I started three months ago.
If you want to know why I would have no hope without trust in God you can read the OP of that thread:

Without God there is no hope

Please note that I was careful to change the title of this thread from Without God there is no hope to Without trust in God, I would have no hope, since I am only speaking for myself. I know that lots of people have hope without God, but I have no hope without God.

More and more I see the futility of trying to make things happen by virtue of my own free will. These are things I want but they are not fated by God to happen, at least not right now. As such, so all I can do is be patient and trust that God knows what is best for me, and that will unfold over the course of time. Without that trust in God, I would have no hope.

It is easy to have hope when you are happy and settled and have nothing to hope for, but it is not so easy when your life is up in the air.

“While a man is happy he may forget his God; but when grief comes and sorrows overwhelm him, then will he remember his Father who is in Heaven, and who is able to deliver him from his humiliations.”
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, pp. 50-51

It seems to me that those here who proclaim to belong to a religion, if they believe that the Bible is mythical and fairytale like, but belong to a religion claiming to be Christian, or they themselves claim to be Christian but believe in the process of evolution conducting life force, what can they hope for??

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a shame
Maybe you can see why I dont want to be like you

Do you really think you have more free will than I do?

I can understand why you don't want to be like me, because my fate has not been that great to date, even though I struggled and made the best choices I could.

Maybe God likes you better than He likes me.

 

[Trailblazer]

It seems to me that those here who proclaim to belong to a religion, if they believe that the Bible is mythical and fairytale like, but belong to a religion claiming to be Christian, or they themselves claim to be Christian but believe in the process of evolution conducting life force, what can they hope for??

What do you think that Christians should hope for? What do you hope for?

 

[Audie]

Do you really think you have more free will than I do?

I can understand why you don't want to be like me, because my fate has not been that great to date, even though I struggled and made the best choices I could.

Maybe God likes you better than He likes me.

Free will? I didn't remotely mention
that.
You dont remotely know why I dont want to be like you
But it's simple
I just think fantasy is a poor basis for hope.

You've no idea what Ive been through.
Few would envy it.

A god who picks favs would be a real
jerk.

 

[Trailblazer]

Free will? I didn't remotely mention
that.
You dont remotely know why I dont want to be like you
But it's simple
I just think fantasy is a poor basis for hope.

You've no idea what Ive been through.
Few would envy it.

A god who picks favs would be a real
jerk.

Okay, you believe it is a fantasy, but I believe it is a reality.

I am sorry for what you have been through.
I don't think that God plays favorites, it is just the way things work out.
We are not all going to have the same kind of life.

 

[Audie]

Okay, you believe it is a fantasy, but I believe it is a reality.

I am sorry for what you have been through.
I don't think that God plays favorites, it is just the way things work out.
We are not all going to have the same kind of life.

I'm sorry for your misfortunes.

And it's churlish of me to poke at what brings grace and peace to your life

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry for your misfortunes.

And it's churlish of me to poke at what brings grace and peace to your life

Thanks. It doesn't always bring grace and peace but it is better than the alternative, which is hopelessness, and ultimately depression.

 

[Audie]

Thanks. It doesn't always bring grace and peace but it is better than the alternative, which is hopelessness, and ultimately depression.

I found my way out of depression and
dissociation. What works can't be wrong.

My initial comment to you was, though,and
for that I do apologize.

 

[Trailblazer]

I found my way out of depression and
dissociation. What works can't be wrong.

I'm glad you found something that works for you...
Many years ago, I also found a way out of depression, and it had nothing to do with God.
Now that I have been free of the depression for so many years I don't want it to come back, so I keep physically and mentally active in order to keep it at bay. I have a lot to be depressed about right now so this is not an easy task.

 

[YoursTrue]

What do you think that Christians should hope for? What do you hope for?

I hope to see the following fulfilled: Revelation 21:1-5.

 

[Trailblazer]

I hope to see the following fulfilled: Revelation 21:1-5.

That doesn't tell me much since those verses mean different things to different people.

 

[YoursTrue]

That doesn't tell me much since those verses mean different things to different people.

Let me put it a bit differently then: I hope to be alive when death and unhappiness are no more. Ok? Is that clearer?

 

[Audie]

That doesn't tell me much since those verses mean different things to different people.

The book is like that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

(...), not because I am emotionally invested into believing.

Your statement about "hope", says otherwise imo.

You cannot start believing in God because you see no evidence for God.

Yep.

Evidence is what determines my justifications for believing anything. And I will always do my best to keep emotions out of it.
But as I am human, I too get caught into that bias from time to time.