Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Alceste]

Where's this quiz and how do I take it?

Linky

 

[Aquitaine]

Hmm okay, I've finshed it, the results are:

You Are 90% Feminist

You are a total feminist. This doesn't mean you're a man hater (in fact, you may be a man).
You just think that men and women should be treated equally. It's a simple idea but somehow complicated for the world to put into action.

There were I think two points that I was iffy on, and that was the "Man's job" and the contraception points. I answered "not sure" on both of those.

My reasons fo the Man's Job one was because I see it as both ways, that either sex can be better suited for certain things, I think what is more important is the ability of the candidate, rather than the gender. However it swings both ways, if Men are generally better by a considerable margin, at being lumberjacks, then people could call it a "man's job" - however, it doesn't mean that Females would be barred from the job etc.

Just like if Women are generally better at being teachers, by a considerable margin, then I think people could call it a "woman's job", and Men won't be barred form such jobs either.

However, this relates mostly to just freedom of speech, of people literally saying "man's/woman's job", ultimately, skill should be the most important, not gender, but if it just so happens to be that there's some correlation between the gender and certain skills with certain jobs, then I only see it as just nature I guess.



As for the contraception one, I answered "not sure" because of the implications of it, which stems in with feelings on abortion etc, so just to play safe I took the Neutral stance on it ^_^


Only thing that I found odd about the quiz was that it seemed more Woman-oriented, e.g "A Woman shouldn't have to...." "Can a Woman do this...." etc etc, whereas really it should be "An individual" etc, but then again it is a Feminist quiz, not neccessarily an "Equalist" quiz, if such a thing exists xD

 

[Aquitaine]

For a laugh, I went back and voted the totall opposite to see what it would say at the end, I got this:

You Are 10% Feminist

You are definitely not a feminist. In fact, you are every feminist's worst nightmare.
You believe that women belong in the kitchen.... barefoot and pregnant.


"You believe that Women belong in the kitchen.......barefoot and pregnant.".

Hahahahahaha! That made me laugh LOL!

:biglaugh:

 

[Alceste]

There were I think two points that I was iffy on, and that was the "Man's job" and the contraception points. I answered "not sure" on both of those.

My reasons fo the Man's Job one was because I see it as both ways, that either sex can be better suited for certain things, I think what is more important is the ability of the candidate, rather than the gender. However it swings both ways, if Men are generally better by a considerable margin, at being lumberjacks, then people could call it a "man's job" - however, it doesn't mean that Females would be barred from the job etc.

That sounds reasonable, since at the end of the day it's just words. Nevertheless, as a woman who has experienced first hand the type of atmosphere women are subjected to if they take on what is traditionally considered a "man's job", I think it's worthwhile for society to move away from that way of thinking. I got into huge political trouble simply because I was good at it, and dealt with constant sexual harassment and belittling remarks all day every day. I was offered the position of "Best Boy", and the old boys network at the union conspired to ensure I never worked another day in film in this redneck province. Bit of a sore spot, actually.

Just like if Women are generally better at being teachers, by a considerable margin, then I think people could call it a "woman's job", and Men won't be barred form such jobs either.

I'm sure the social stigma of doing a "woman's job" is no less uncomfortable for male nurses and nannies than it was for me as a grip. I'm not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to say such things of course, but I will go ahead and believe it's a narrow-minded and potentially harmful attitude.

ultimately, skill should be the most important, not gender...

I agree with that completely...

, but if it just so happens to be that there's some correlation between the gender and certain skills with certain jobs, then I only see it as just nature I guess.

But I think this attitude significantly interferes with a clear-eyed assessment of any person's skills.

 

[Aquitaine]

That sounds reasonable, since at the end of the day it's just words. Nevertheless, as a woman who has experienced first hand the type of atmosphere women are subjected to if they take on what is traditionally considered a "man's job", I think it's worthwhile for society to move away from that way of thinking. I got into huge political trouble simply because I was good at it, and dealt with constant sexual harassment and belittling remarks all day every day. I was offered the position of "Best Boy", and the old boys network at the union conspired to ensure I never worked another day in film in this redneck province. Bit of a sore spot, actually.

Then you were a victim of sexist attitudes, however, it depends on the level of "intensity" terms like "man's job" are considered. For example, some could see it (like how I may do, depending on the circumstances) that it means more "a job that Males, have shown to be generally more configured towards, but nonetheless Females are welcome aboard", whereas some would see "man's job" as "exclusively only for Males, Females wouldn't be able to achieve the requirements of this job at all, OMFG get her back in the Kitchen ASAP".

I'm sure the social stigma of doing a "woman's job" is no less uncomfortable for male nurses and nannies than it was for me as a grip. I'm not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to say such things of course, but I will go ahead and believe it's a narrow-minded and potentially harmful attitude.

Like I said, it depends on how they percieve the term and how they interpret it. At the end of the day though, freedom of speech pwns all, so I think everyone should be allowed to say such things.
What's more important in my opinion, is the actions or stance people take on such views. For example, a Man could say "my job is a Man's job" yet he could be totally equality-based in his actions and mentality, and would see a female employee as the same a a Male one.
To the contrary, you could have someone say "Equality all the way", and then turn around and laugh at a Female Plumber or a Male Nanny etc.
End of the day, we shouldn't worry about the words, instead we should focus on the actual behavour.

But I think this attitude significantly interferes with a clear-eyed assessment of any person's skills.

Hmm, I think I didn't desbribe it very good, but what I mean is, if there is evidence put forward from assessments or research that indicate that say, Females are better at raising children, then I will not deny it (at this point you're wondering W-T-H doesn't he do this with the Spanking research, but that's another matter ). Nor would I deny the fact that Nature is inherently "sexist" or "unequal", for example, Men cannot get pregnant.
One can still have a clear-eyed assessment of any person's skills, but if I notice that Men are better at some things, and Women are better at some things, then I will not deny it. It doesn't mean that I'll act on such information, it just means that I'll accept it, because like I said, Equality is not natural, it's a perk that we've been able to work on through our separation of Nature, and investment in our artificial (usually secular) societies.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Is it submissive to be loving, nurturing, caring, supportive, councilor? !

all this talk about submissive women....

 

[Mr Cheese]

For a laugh, I went back and voted the totall opposite to see what it would say at the end, I got this:

You Are 10% Feminist

You are definitely not a feminist. In fact, you are every feminist's worst nightmare.
You believe that women belong in the kitchen.... barefoot and pregnant.


"You believe that Women belong in the kitchen.......barefoot and pregnant.".

Hahahahahaha! That made me laugh LOL!

:biglaugh:

why do women have small feet?

So that they can fit under the sink...:clap

 

[Humanistheart]

[/font]




I'm sure the social stigma of doing a "woman's job" is no less uncomfortable for male nurses and nannies than it was for me as a grip. I'm not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to say such things of course, but I will go ahead and believe it's a narrow-minded and potentially harmful attitude.

.

Indeed, originally I was in the child development program. I wanted to work with children. But I was the only man in most of my class's, and the ceasless *****ing about men and constant double standards forced me out of the major.

 

[Humanistheart]

You keep harping on that same point, for which you have no evidence. Why?




"Feminist - of or relating to or advocating equal rights for women" (dictionary.com)

No reason why that can't be a man.

First of all we've already been through this. You have every legal right men have plus more, abortion. You have more legal rights then men. I know people say math isn't womens strong suite but I assumed that was a stereotype, sheesh.

Second of all, is the prefice of feminist, it has feminie in it. Not something for men. It's like saying muslulinist if you were to believe in equal rights for men, when you could just say equal rights activist. Feminist would be more accurate as : the belief that women are superieor to men, as they do nothing to help men when they're behind women in society. The original feminists desrved the definition, back when they were behind men, now that your ahead in some areas and equal in others, it's a rather pointless and inaccurate title.

 

[Alceste]

Indeed, originally I was in the child development program. I wanted to work with children. But I was the only man in most of my class's, and the ceasless *****ing about men and constant double standards forced me out of the major.

Yeah, see, third wave feminists like myself would have gone to bat for you in a class like that. Generally speaking, our vision is for equality and the destruction of gender bigotry, not advantage for one gender over another.

I know how you feel, though. It's unfair either way.

 

[Humanistheart]

Yeah, see, third wave feminists like myself would have gone to bat for you in a class like that. Generally speaking, our vision is for equality and the destruction of gender bigotry, not advantage for one gender over another.

I know how you feel, though. It's unfair either way.

Thank you. I agree it's unfair either way. I have seen peers being less rigid to gender stereo types than proffessors. Which is unfortunate. It's like these women can't understand that the world changes. I had one feminist proffessor just ramble on, saying how when people think of doctors of proffesors they automatically think of men. ********, most of my proffessors are women!

 

[Alceste]

First of all we've already been through this. You have every legal right men have plus more, abortion. You have more legal rights then men. I know people say math isn't womens strong suite but I assumed that was a stereotype, sheesh.

That's nonsense. You have every legal right to an abortion, if ever you should find yourself pregnant, as ATS pointed out.

Second of all, is the prefice of feminist, it has feminie in it. Not something for men. It's like saying muslulinist if you were to believe in equal rights for men, when you could just say equal rights activist. Feminist would be more accurate as : the belief that women are superieor to men, as they do nothing to help men when they're behind women in society. The original feminists desrved the definition, back when they were behind men, now that your ahead in some areas and equal in others, it's a rather pointless and inaccurate title.

Sometimes words just mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. You're fighting a losing battle if you want to stop people using the word "feminism" to describe aspects of an egalitarian agenda that have particular significance for women.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Chicago, USA, October, 2008 at the True Woman Conference ’08, 6,000 women gathered to protest the kind of liberation forced on them by Western society.

Women's 'Liberation' Through Submission: An Evangelical Anti-Feminism Is Born | Reproductive Justice and Gender | AlterNet



Thoughts?

I dunno, Patty. I didn't find their agenda in the link provided to be as innocent as what might be at first glance:

Feminism begins with a deconstruction of a Judeo-Christian view of womanhood (the right to name self); progressed to the deconstruction of manhood, gender relationships, family/societal structures, and a Judeo-Christian worldview (the right to name the world); and concluded with the concept of a metaphysical pluralism, self-deification, and the rejection of the Judeo-Christian deity (the right to name God).
To the age-old question of “who is God,” Kassian complained, feminism answers, it’s up to you. And this, to Kassian, is a blasphemous statement of authority in and of itself, and even a sign of self-worship. “According to feminism, women decide, and ultimately, that means that they themselves are God.”

I see an agenda for theocratic authoritarianism as the foundation for their manifesto. And for this, I profoundly disagree with them.

Plus, their definition given here for what feminism is and what it has done for society is more than a little disturbing.

 

[Willamena]

I dunno, Patty. I didn't find their agenda in the link provided to be as innocent as what might be at first glance:

Feminism begins with a deconstruction of a Judeo-Christian view of womanhood (the right to name self); progressed to the deconstruction of manhood, gender relationships, family/societal structures, and a Judeo-Christian worldview (the right to name the world); and concluded with the concept of a metaphysical pluralism, self-deification, and the rejection of the Judeo-Christian deity (the right to name God).
To the age-old question of “who is God,” Kassian complained, feminism answers, it’s up to you. And this, to Kassian, is a blasphemous statement of authority in and of itself, and even a sign of self-worship. “According to feminism, women decide, and ultimately, that means that they themselves are God.”

I see an agenda for theocratic authoritarianism as the foundation for their manifesto. And for this, I profoundly disagree with them.

Plus, their definition given here for what feminism is and what it has done for society is more than a little disturbing.

Heather!

I don't see any "agenda" in there, just a statement of a philosophical position that stands in stark constrast to what they see Feminism being. I really don't think they're thinking what the Brain thinks Pinkie's thinking.
(Which, just now, strikes me as an amusing feminist metaphor.)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Heather!

I don't see any "agenda" in there, just a statement of a philosophical position that stands in stark constrast to what they see Feminism being. I really don't think they're thinking what the Brain thinks Pinkie's thinking.
(Which, just now, strikes me as an amusing feminist metaphor.)

Hmmmm, I guess could post a Mystic Manifesto that says that women are by our very nature fit for being multi-orgasmic polyamorous bisexual artisans with masterful intellects. That and we all should fulfill our duties by picking up the whips and using them when we see fit.

How about I say that unless women everywhere realize our full potential as "Mystic Women", society will collapse? And that I postulate that feminism has only offered us a castrated-male, anti-sexual, angry model that just doesn't have any fun?

Of course, this is just a philosophical stance, too. :trampo:

 

[Willamena]

Hmmmm, I guess could post a Mystic Manifesto that says that women are by our very nature fit for being multi-orgasmic polyamorous bisexual artisans with masterful intellects. That and we all should fulfill our duties by picking up the whips and using them when we see fit.

How about I say that unless women everywhere realize our full potential as "Mystic Women", society will collapse? And that I postulate that feminism has only offered us a castrated-male, anti-sexual, angry model that just doesn't have any fun?

Of course, this is just a philosophical stance, too. :trampo:

I'd read it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Cool. I'll get started on it, ASAP.

 

[Aquitaine]

Sometimes words just mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. You're fighting a losing battle if you want to stop people using the word "feminism" to describe aspects of an egalitarian agenda that have particular significance for women.

I guess you could say the same though for terms like "man's job" "woman's job" too, right?

'Cause they're just words, they don't neccessarily mean or intend to enforce unequal treatment, unless certain people interpret the terms differently, or in a total literal sense.

It's the same with (from my experience) "Feminism". I've always been baffled as to why it wasn't termed "Equalism" from day one, but then again it's not really a big deal. However, there does exist a stereotype that "Feminist" means Female-Superiority, or just plain Mysandry. Unfortunately however, despite that not being the actual true "Feminism", there are some Women I know IRL, and a few groups who do abuse "Feminism" to push their anti-Male agendas or opinions etc. But then again that happens with most ideologies though, so I guess it ain't anything new.

 

[Papersock]

Second of all, is the prefice of feminist, it has feminie in it. Not something for men.

Even if a man is "feminine," so what? Why does it matter? Why should all men act "masculine" and reject anything that could be seen as "feminine?"

 

[Humanistheart]

That's nonsense. You have every legal right to an abortion, if ever you should find yourself pregnant, as ATS pointed out..

True, to which I pointed out it's the taking of a life. Women get to take young childrens lives legally, men do not. That's not equality for men or for children. It's sexist and ageist.

Sometimes words just mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. You're fighting a losing battle if you want to stop people using the word "feminism" to describe aspects of an egalitarian agenda that have particular significance for women.[/quote]

And that's a problem. We wont reach real equality untill people stop fighting men vs women's rights and start looking at them as human rights. But that's not my point. I'm saying it's the feminine aspect of the word that makes it inaproriate for men. I support equal rights, and according to posters here that automatically makes me a femininist. It's disturbing that a gender nuetral phrase or word isn't used.