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Wrong to Cheat on Partner?

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Killing is (almost??) always unpleasant... however,
and ... dare I say....horrible? or at least negative?
Especially if it's a person we are killing.

Are you really comparing sex with more than one partner,
to perhaps killing a horrid criminal on death row? :areyoucra

All around, that is the most bizarre analogy I maybe have ever seen. :shrug:

I thought I made this very clear in that post. I'm saying the relationship between cheating and sleeping with someone other than your partner is the same as the relationship between murder and killing. "Cheating is to sleeping with someone other than your partner as murder is to killing" is what I said. I'm not saying the act of cheating is the same or similar to murder, and I'm not saying sleeping with someone other than your partner is the same or similar to killing. Killing can be acceptable under the right circumstances, but murder cannot. Sleeping with someone other than your partner can be acceptable under the right circumstances, but cheating cannot.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
There is never a time when you absolutely have to sleep with someone other than your partner.

I agree - in real life, there should never be a time when "you absolutely have to sleep with someone other than your partner."

But we can think of some pretty extreme hypothetical situations where such an action would be ethically obligatory, but it might muddle the idea of consent. For example, if you were required to have sex with someone who would then share the cure for cancer with the world... and we can add that the person was fatally attractive...
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I agree - in real life, there should never be a time when "you absolutely have to sleep with someone other than your partner."

But we can think of some pretty extreme hypothetical situations where such an action would be ethically obligatory, but it might muddle the idea of consent. For example, if you were required to have sex with someone who would then share the cure for cancer with the world... and we can add that the person was fatally attractive...

You still don't absolutely have to sleep with that person like you have to kill someone or be killed. But even in your example, you could still talk it over with your partner first, unless a condition was that this person who holds the cure specifically says you can't. And still you're being coerced. It's not just "Hey, do you want to sleep with me?".

Anyway, in real life it's entirely possible to have to kill someone. It's not possible in real life to have to sleep with someone.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
You still don't absolutely have to sleep with that person like you have to kill someone or be killed. But even in your example, you could still talk it over with your partner first, unless a condition was that this person who holds the cure specifically says you can't. And still you're being coerced. It's not just "Hey, do you want to sleep with me?".

Anyway, in real life it's entirely possible to have to kill someone. It's not possible in real life to have to sleep with someone.

Yes, I think that your analogy is excellent with respect to reality.

But I suspect that some people are speaking hypothetically and creating non-realistic situations.
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
Regardless of shoulds and values and morals, there are obviously times when a person's needs or wants supersede all else. Comparing something like killing doesn't translate well, though I understand the point was about justification. Maybe comparing to stealing works better.

What puzzles me is how many people condemn affairs compared to how many have them.

A 2009 Gallop poll reported 92% people surveyed said having an affair is morally wrong.

Extramarital Affairs, Like Sanford

But, depending on the study (and there are a lot), somewhere between 25-60% of married people have affairs.

If you believe affairs to be immoral, have you had one? Do you think you never will? Why do you suppose the overlap between belief and contradictory action is so high?

Time has an interesting article: Why We Have Affairs — And Why Not to Tell - TIME
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Anyway, in real life it's entirely possible to have to kill someone. It's not possible in real life to have to sleep with someone.

In a sense though, you never have to kill someone either. You could let them kill you. Not sure if its the same, but i thought its worth mentioning.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I suspect that people's unwillingness to discuss this topic without making silly assumptions is mainly because they can't answer the question posited, and they're having trouble handling that.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
In a sense though, you never have to kill someone either. You could let them kill you. Not sure if its the same, but i thought its worth mentioning.

Right, but technically you never have to do anything ever. The ultimate consequence is death, and so saying you have to do something is short for saying "You have to do it or else you'll die".
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I suspect that people's unwillingness to discuss this topic without making silly assumptions is mainly because they can't answer the question posited, and they're having trouble handling that.

Who is unwilling to discuss the topic?
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Right, but technically you never have to do anything ever. The ultimate consequence is death, and so saying you have to do something is short for saying "You have to do it or else you'll die".

I know its the ultimate consequence, but still it doesn't make you unable to choose.

Who is unwilling to discuss the topic?

Some people are unwilling to discuss the topic without making silly assumptions. Not all people though, you're not one of them.
 

Mercy Not Sacrifice

Well-Known Member
The desire isn't conscious. Following it through is. Keeping it a secret from your partner most certainly is. We all have lots of instinctive desires but that's no excuse for willingly submitting to them all.

Absolute rubbish! "Forced sex" has a perfectly good term of "rape", which has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. There is absolutely no reason to redefine the term "cheating" unless you're trying to distract from that it currently means in this context.

I think you overestimate the idea of choice. We "choose" to have sex just as we "choose" to eat. Contrary to popular opinion, there is not much difference between the two.

My point about reclassifying "cheating" as rape within a relationship is to highlight the sordid reality that while consensual sex outside relationships is generally condemned, non-consensual sex inside relationships is largely overlooked (and sometimes outright condoned). IMO, rape is a far, far worse act than "cheating" could possibly ever be.

It's not about culture winning out over biology. It's more like biology fighting biology. In a very real sense, the fact that we have culture is a result of our biology. We are organisms which survive much better when we are in groups than we do when we are solitary. And part of what comes with culture are generally agreed upon rules for social interaction.

Now, I do think the edict against having more than one sexual partner to be arbitrary (though I'm sure there are or at least were rational reasons to support it.) But the way to go about changing it isn't to be sneaking around and hurting the people you love (or who love you). It's by having open and honest conversations about it, and trying to change the way people view it.

And lastly, just because we have a natural instinct or inclination towards something does not mean that we are bound by that instinct. And just because an instinct is natural, it also doesn't mean it's for the best. I would say our instinct for war is quite strong. Does that mean we should give in to that instinct? Does that mean we are not to be held accountable for waging wars? Hardly.

Hmm! "Biology fighting biology," yes, that can and does happen. It's like parents who attempt to control their teenagers' sexual behavior: To an extent they are merely following their instincts to protect their young, but ironically they are denying them the opportunity to act on their respective instincts.

Now you can't just claim that since one instinct is bad--the drive to fight "other" groups--that any other behavioral instinct is automatically bad. That conclusion simply does not follow. Evolution gave us instincts for a reason. Instead, to assess whether any given instinct is good, bad, or neutral must be done on a case-by-case basis. Here, I believe that the desire to destroy "other" groups is generally bad, but the desire to sleep around? Get back to me on that one.

This seems to be a common answer, but wouldn't the better option be to discuss with the partner the fact that you're not sexually satisfied to the point where you feel like you need to sleep with someone else?

Well sure, that should be the first step. But what if it doesn't work? What if someone needs a different person, or people, to be sexually satisfied, and his or her partner would not let that happen? Is breaking up and forming a new relationship the answer? Perhaps, but this raises another question: Could not serial monogamy be considered a form of sleeping around? Not taking into account the social implications, but strictly from a biological sense, what difference is there between cheating and serial monogamy?
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I think you overestimate the idea of choice. We "choose" to have sex just as we "choose" to eat. Contrary to popular opinion, there is not much difference between the two.

What? You have a really distorted view of things. :sarcastic
There is clearly a lot of difference.
 

Vendetta

"Oscar the grouch"
Here is a very good question. If I am with someone, either married or boyfriend girlfriend, and I fantasize about someone via masturbation, would that be considered cheating?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Well sure, that should be the first step. But what if it doesn't work? What if someone needs a different person, or people, to be sexually satisfied, and his or her partner would not let that happen?

Then break up with the person and move on. The point is that you should bring it up. If the other person is OK with it, then great. If not, and they don't want to be with you if you want to sleep with other people, then they need to be given that option.

Is breaking up and forming a new relationship the answer? Perhaps, but this raises another question: Could not serial monogamy be considered a form of sleeping around? Not taking into account the social implications, but strictly from a biological sense, what difference is there between cheating and serial monogamy?

I want to clarify before I respond. By "serial monogamist" do you mean someone who starts a relationship with one person and breaks up with them after a while and moves on to someone else and keeps repeating that? If so, you could call that sleeping around, if the person does it enough. But it's not cheating in any sense.

Now one also shouldn't just keep breaking up with people to sleep with other people. That shows a lack of respect and an inability to take a relationship seriously, that is, if it's a consistent thing.

I don't think talking strictly in a biological sense is helpful. In a biological sense, nothing is morally wrong.
 
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