Your saved as soon as you accept jesus.

[AllanV]

Well,whether or you understand something or not is not the basis for what really is or is not. Your inadequacy does not determine reality. Fact is, you could be wrong. About everything, about part of it, about something. You don't know, you believe. That's why they are called belief systems. Your beliefs have no real consequence upon one nor mine upon yours and neither can be empirically proven.

Observation and experience have helped. What is going on in peoples' minds and with their behaviors is like trying to understand a crime scene. We know the police don't get it correct all the time.
It is very difficult to understand the book the Bible while realizing it is relating to all the so called normal interactions in life.
People behave in a certain way and my mind has been tested and has shown what is in there, all the hidden aspects. But I was shown a way, a way of Holiness to clean it entirely. I now understand what the scriptures are about because I am taught by God and this shows the plight of mankind. It is impossible to find usually but then anything is possible with God.

 

[Yes]

Yes, living to do Gods will , Jesus taught there-- these enter Gods kingdom( be saved)--
Repentence = the stopping of the doing of sin--like these two lists-1Cor 6:9-11--Galations 5:19-21--- there are other major sins one does not ever practice besides these two lists as well. One does this-Matt 16:24--and this is how one is actually born again in a sense--Ephesians 4:22-24--- strip off the old personality( worker of iniquity) and put on the new personality( righteous)- with our whole heart,soul, mind, and strength. 24/7 365( this is Gods will)

It sounds like you have come to agree with me.

 

[Yes]

What about it would cause deletion? I didn't insult you, call you a name, nothing. You would be free to say much the same kind of comment, though apparently you would not say exactly what I did as you actually seem to believe in Satan.


I am not a slave to sin. There us no such thing as sin. I can't be a slave to something that doesn't exist. One may consider themselves a slave to the state perhaps if they don't like the idea of taxes, but there are no actual slaves here. No one is owned, certainly not me.

Denying it does not change the truth.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram simple logic ji

It seems that logic and critical thinking have become too inconvenient to most religious institutions. Atheist have filled a void and dared to confront difficult issues. A quality that all people should possess.

this I can sympathise with entirely , ...providing the Atheist doesnot vere towards Anti Theism , ....

Though I have run into many "God-hating" Atheist as well who seem to proselytize more than christians do! It appears that any concept which becomes an institution is capable of rejecting critical thinking over time.

what astounds me is the Atheist that beleives that all who love God do so becase they blindly follow Dogma , and canot accept that many of those who love God have arrived at their understanding of the relationship between God and man through equaly rigorous questioning .

to my mind critical thinking is only of value when turned upon ones own beleifs , not upon anothers .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram luis ji

I truly don't know what you are talking about. Or maybe I just care considerably more about the dangers of blind belief.

there is something that I do not understand , .. where along the line is the atheist capable to assertain if the beleif of another is Blind or well founded ?

 

[LuisDantas]

namaskaram luis ji

there is something that I do not understand , .. where along the line is the atheist capable to assertain if the belief of another is Blind or well founded ?

Namaskaram, Ratikala Ji.

Thanks for asking.

Belief is blind when it attempts to overcome known facts in order to justify harmful behavior.

As when it fuels anti-evolutionism and other forms of obscurantism.

As when it is used to justify injustice and violence based on ethnical differences.

As when it is used to justify repression of free thinking.

As when it becomes a weapon to be used against sexual minorities.

As when it is used to create power structures to give people privileges and wealth under false pretense.


Of course, perceiving and attempting to prevent and correct those distortions are not a privilege of the atheist. Everyone should do so, theists most of all.

 

[Draka]

Denying it does not change the truth.

Making a nonsensical claim does not make something "the truth".

 

[Yes]

Making a nonsensical claim does not make something "the truth".

If you want to know if what Jesus says in the Holy Bible is true or not, there is only one way you can find out, and that is to do what he says. Otherwise, you are merely giving your unknowledgeable opinion. See John 7:17.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

All one has to do is accept Jesus, and their saved. No magic ceremonies required. Thanks

Pardon me, but asking a supernatural being to "save" me from its own design errors seems like an entirely magical ceremony.

 

[Draka]

If you want to know if what Jesus says in the Holy Bible is true or not, there is only one way you can find out, and that is to do what he says. Otherwise, you are merely giving your unknowledgeable opinion. See John 7:17.

And you aren't? Giving an unknowing opinion that is. Belief. It is a belief of yours. Your mythology is no better nor substantiated than mine. You don't know, you merely believe, like the rest of us. We go off what makes the most sense to us as we are all human beings and can only reason what our individual minds allow us to. Yours, obviously, does not allow you to entertain the notion that you could be wrong and that it is not upon you to tell others what they should and should not believe or that they are "slaves to sin" and the like. Shame, because I truly think those are things you should probably learn in order to be just a little bit better in this world to others.

 

[Yes]

And you aren't? Giving an unknowing opinion that is. Belief. It is a belief of yours. Your mythology is no better nor substantiated than mine. You don't know, you merely believe, like the rest of us. We go off what makes the most sense to us as we are all human beings and can only reason what our individual minds allow us to.

Face it, you want to speak to us about the Christian God, but you want to do this without any knowledge and experience. You want to give your worthless opinions. Jesus tells us what we have to do to know if what he says is true. You are trying to tell me about my God, but you have to do it with experience and knowledge

Yours, obviously, does not allow you to entertain the notion that you could be wrong and that it is not upon you to tell others what they should and should not believe or that they are "slaves to sin" and the like.

I absolutely know that you are a slave to sin. I know this because I believe the written Word of God. The Bible says that we are slaves to either righteousness, or to sin. I can prove easily that you are a slave to sin...you, as a devoted slave, come here to this group...and speak against God and Jesus.

Shame, because I truly think those are things you should probably learn in order to be just a little bit better in this world to others.

You have a lot of nerve telling me what I should be ashamed for saying. How is it that you can say anything you want, but I cannot?

 

[Draka]

Face it, you want to speak to us about the Christian God, but you want to do this without any knowledge and experience. You want to give your worthless opinions. Jesus tells us what we have to do to know if what he says is true. You are trying to tell me about my God, but you have to do it with experience and knowledge

See? You just proved that you are speaking unknowingly. How would you know that I don't have any knowledge or experience when it comes to Christianity? Why are my opinions worthless when you have no idea where they come from? You refuse to believe that one who does not believe in your god could possibly have any knowledge about it. That, my dear, is speaking unknowingly. You have no idea what I believe, merely some of what I don't believe. You have no idea what has led me to my beliefs, what they are, why I have them, and if they could possibly, actually, make more logical sense than what you either believe and/or are telling me to believe. You...don't...know.

I absolutely know that you are a slave to sin. I know this because I believe the written Word of God. The Bible says that we are slaves to either righteousness, or to sin. I can prove easily that you are a slave to sin...you, as a devoted slave, come here to this group...and speak against God and Jesus.

You, again, don't know. You believe. You don't know anything about me. You don't know that what you believe is even real or factual. No one can. You assume a lot. You assume you know when you merely believe, you assume you know that I don't know anything about your beliefs, you assume you know my life and what I believe, you assume there is sin and that I am a "slave" to it. You don't know any of this. These are assumptions, beliefs, nothing more.

You have a lot of nerve telling me what I should be ashamed for saying. How is it that you can say anything you want, but I cannot?

Excuse me? I have nerve for telling you what you should be ashamed of yet you do not have nerve for telling me I am a "slave to sin"? You have no nerve for assuming things about me that you could not possibly know and then denigrating me for them? It does appear that you really can say anything you want.

 

[allfoak]

What does it mean to accept Jesus?
How?

 

[Yes]

? You just proved that you are speaking unknowingly. How would you know that I don't have any knowledge or experience when it comes to Christianity?

Jesus tells us how we can know if what he says is true or not. Since you speak against Jesus, you show that you have no knowledge and experience, unless of course you know the truth but want to go against Jesus anyway.

Why are my opinions worthless when you have no idea where they come from? You refuse to believe that one who does not believe in your god could possibly have any knowledge about it. That, my dear, is speaking unknowingly. You have no idea what I believe, merely some of what I don't believe. You have no idea what has led me to my beliefs, what they are, why I have them, and if they could possibly, actually, make more logical sense than what you either believe and/or are telling me to believe. You...don't...know.

I believe and obey Jesus, and I know that what he says is true.
There is only one way you can find out for yourself too.

You, again, don't know. You believe. You don't know anything about me. You don't know that what you believe is even real or factual. No one can. You assume a lot. You assume you know when you merely believe, you assume you know that I don't know anything about your beliefs, you assume you know my life and what I believe, you assume there is sin and that I am a "slave" to it. You don't know any of this. These are assumptions, beliefs, nothing more.

Do you or not tell people God is not real? We know you do that, because we read your posts. You doing that is what a slave to sin does.

Excuse me? I have nerve for telling you what you should be ashamed of yet you do not have nerve for telling me I am a "slave to sin"? You have no nerve for assuming things about me that you could not possibly know and then denigrating me for them? It does appear that you really can say anything you want.

You say any lie about God that you want. You speak in any way you want about God and Jesus, even calling them Satan. If I were to speak like that about you or another religion that I know to be false…then my post would be deleted, as it has happened.

 

[Draka]

Jesus tells us how we can know if what he says is true or not. Since you speak against Jesus, you show that you have no knowledge and experience, unless of course you know the truth but want to go against Jesus anyway.

Again, you are assuming. You do realize that there are many people whom have been once Christian or raised with Christian teachings, that have found fault with those beliefs and turned to something else right? Or are you of the ridiculous "True Christian" argument that unless one believes exactly these things and believes them forever that they either are not or never were Christian?

I believe and obey Jesus, and I know that what he says is true.
There is only one way you can find out for yourself too.

Yet again, you don't know, you believe. And your beliefs are no more or less important, validated, factual, or provable than anyone else's. Your mythology is equal to that of anyone else. whether you want to admit that or not.

Do you or not tell people God is not real? We know you do that, because we read your posts. You doing that is what a slave to sin does.

Blah blah blah. I say that sin isn't real, I say that Satan isn't real. How is that any different than you claiming they are real? You have no proof to validate your claim, so I can dismiss it with equal nonchalance. As to what I believe of a deity, well, that you simply don't know as I haven't said. Unlike you, who has no issue with spilling their beliefs out for anyone to see.

You say any lie about God that you want. You speak in any way you want about God and Jesus, even calling them Satan. If I were to speak like that about you or another religion that I know to be false…then my post would be deleted, as it has happened.

As I said before, I can say, with equal nonchalance, that things don't exist (that's not lying, but my honest belief) as someone else can say they do exist when there is no evidentiary support for the positive claim. Also, something tells me, that you could outright say that Odin or Zeus or Cernunnos or the like do not exist and it would be fine as that would be your belief. However, saying things don't exist and then preaching that yours does with pretty much the same level of proof either way is just hypocritical and don't be expecting not to get called out on that.

Funnily enough you seem to portray the "victim complex" that many find so hilarious so very well. "You can do this and I can't because I'll get in trouble!" kind of thing that is completely wrong. You do say things, make accusations, unfounded assumptions, and the like and you seem to be posting and saying them just fine.

 

[Yes]

Again, you are assuming. You do realize that there are many people whom have been once Christian or raised with Christian teachings, that have found fault with those beliefs and turned to something else right??

Just because someone was raised a Christian does not mean they were a Christian.
We have to obey Jesus to be a Christian. We have to obey Jesus to know the truth.

Or are you of the ridiculous "True Christian" argument that unless one believes exactly these things and believes them forever that they either are not or never were Christian

No. A person can lose their salvation.

Yet again, you don't know, you believe. And your beliefs are no more or less important, validated, factual, or provable than anyone else's. Your mythology is equal to that of anyone else. whether you want to admit that or not.

All you are doing is giving your worthless opinions. If you want to know for yourself that what Jesus says is true, then you are to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.

Blah blah blah. I say that sin isn't real,

Your denial is worthless opinion based on lies. Tell me; in your country is it a crime to murder someone? You know it is. There, I have proved that sin exists.

I say that Satan isn't real. How is that any different than you claiming they are real? You have no proof to validate your claim, so I can dismiss it with equal nonchalance.

Your opinions of God are worthless opinions. Go get some knowledge and experience If you want to talk about God and the things of the Bible, then you are going to have to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them, then you will have knowledge and experience.

As to what I believe of a deity, well, that you simply don't know as I haven't said. Unlike you, who has no issue with spilling their beliefs out for anyone to see.

You are not speaking truth, for you have spilled yourself.

As I said before, I can say, with equal nonchalance, that things don't exist (that's not lying, but my honest belief) as someone else can say they do exist when there is no evidentiary support for the positive claim.

It is your inexperienced lack of knowledge opinion.

Also, something tells me, that you could outright say that Odin or Zeus or Cernunnos or the like do not exist and it would be fine as that would be your belief. However, saying things don't exist and then preaching that yours does with pretty much the same level of proof either way is just hypocritical and don't be expecting not to get called out on that.

They do exist. They are about demons and copycats from Satan.
You say any evil you want under the guise that you do not believe in them anyways. You are not fooling those who can see.

Funnily enough you seem to portray the "victim complex" that many find so hilarious so very well. "You can do this and I can't because I'll get in trouble!" kind of thing that is completely wrong. You do say things, make accusations, unfounded assumptions, and the like and you seem to be posting and saying them just fine.

You said God was Satan. If I said you were a worker for Satan, would you report me?

 

[Desert Snake]

Pardon me, but asking a supernatural being to "save" me from its own design errors seems like an entirely magical ceremony.

You almost made a good point there.
Anyways, I don't know how you are defining 'ceremony'.

 

[Draka]

Just because someone was raised a Christian does not mean they were a Christian.
We have to obey Jesus to be a Christian. We have to obey Jesus to know the truth.

No. A person can lose their salvation.

Regardless your belief in salvation, then you do admit it is possible I do know something about Christianity? That I could, in fact, be speaking from knowledge or experience and you just don't like what I have to say?

All you are doing is giving your worthless opinions. If you want to know for yourself that what Jesus says is true, then you are to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them.

If you feel that way about it, then you should never criticize or speak as if you know anything about any other religion unless you get the teachings and obey and follow that religion. Otherwise, you don't know anything about them and can't speak upon them, right?

Your denial is worthless opinion based on lies. Tell me; in your country is it a crime to murder someone? You know it is. There, I have proved that sin exists.

Your opinions of God are worthless opinions. Go get some knowledge and experience If you want to talk about God and the things of the Bible, then you are going to have to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them, then you will have knowledge and experience.

You don't know if I have knowledge or experience, I could very well have them, but you don't know now do you? Refer back to the top of this post again.

You are not speaking truth, for you have spilled yourself.

I have "spilled" myself? Don't think so. As I said, I haven't told you anything of what I do believe, only a few things I don't. You don't know anything about what I believe, only that I don't believe what you believe. That is the truth. for you to say otherwise makes you the liar, not me.

It is your inexperienced lack of knowledge opinion.

Refer above again.

They do exist. They are about demons and copycats from Satan.
You say any evil you want under the guise that you do not believe in them anyways. You are not fooling those who can see.

You make unsubstantiated claims about other gods "They are demons and copycats from Satan" and because I speak against what you believe I am saying "evil" things? How do you know that one of the gods you disparage isn't the real deal and yours the copycat? You don't know, you just think that way.

You said God was Satan. If I said you were a worker for Satan, would you report me?

I said "There is no Satan, and if your god exists it seems it covers far more of "Satan's" territory than anything good." I had already said that I consider the Abrahamic god one that is vindictive and sadistic. One need only look at the bible and see that far more death and wrong was done by "God" than attributed to "Satan". So my opinion stands. I didn't say that "God" was "Satan", I said that "Satan" didn't exist, doesn't need to really as "God" already covers the bad stuff.

As for you saying I am a worker for "Satan", you have already as much said when you keep saying I am a "slave to sin". It's obvious you consider me so anyway even though, as I said, you know nothing about me. Go ahead and think that I am Satan's mistress for all I am concerned. Just shows your true colors and that you don't know me. What do I care? You have been showing your ignorance from the beginning, so it's not like it would be a surprise or something for me to take seriously.

 

[Yes]

Regardless your belief in salvation, then you do admit it is possible I do know something about Christianity? That I could, in fact, be speaking from knowledge or experience and you just don't like what I have to say?

From what you say, I know you do not have knowledge or experience.

If you feel that way about it, then you should never criticize or speak as if you know anything about any other religion unless you get the teachings and obey and follow that religion. Otherwise, you don't know anything about them and can't speak upon them, right?

If you obey Jesus’ teachings, then you will know things about this world.

You don't know if I have knowledge or experience, I could very well have them, but you don't know now do you? Refer back to the top of this post again.

I know you do not.

I have "spilled" myself? Don't think so. As I said, I haven't told you anything of what I do believe, only a few things I don't. You don't know anything about what I believe, only that I don't believe what you believe. That is the truth. for you to say otherwise makes you the liar, not me.

I am not a liar. You are resorting to personal attacks and false accusations.
You said God was Satan.
I want to show you how God shows us how to overcome Satan

You make unsubstantiated claims about other gods "They are demons and copycats from Satan" and because I speak against what you believe I am saying "evil" things? How do you know that one of the gods you disparage isn't the real deal and yours the copycat? You don't know, you just think that way.

I know.

I said "There is no Satan, and if your god exists it seems it covers far more of "Satan's" territory than anything good." I had already said that I consider the Abrahamic god one that is vindictive and sadistic. One need only look at the bible and see that far more death and wrong was done by "God" than attributed to "Satan". So my opinion stands. I didn't say that "God" was "Satan", I said that "Satan" didn't exist, doesn't need to really as "God" already covers the bad stuff.

You did say God was Satan.

As for you saying I am a worker for "Satan", you have already as much said when you keep saying I am a "slave to sin". It's obvious you consider me so anyway even though, as I said, you know nothing about me. Go ahead and think that I am Satan's mistress for all I am concerned. Just shows your true colors and that you don't know me. What do I care? You have been showing your ignorance from the beginning, so it's not like it would be a surprise or something for me to take seriously.

Jesus is the Greatest Love Ever Known. I hope that you will listen to me and consider what I say. You did call God Satan. You can still have a relationship with Jesus Christ. You can still become great in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Draka]

From what you say, I know you do not have knowledge or experience.

Nope, wrong again. See what assuming does for you?

If you obey Jesus’ teachings, then you will know things about this world.

No, you don't get to hold everyone else to one standard and not yourself. To do so makes you a hypocrite and dishonest.

I know you do not.

See above. You're not speaking from knowledge, you're speaking from erroneous assumptions.

I am not a liar. You are resorting to personal attacks and false accusations.

Where have I personally attacked you or made a false accusation? You have certainly made false accusations in this, but I have not. Nor have a made a personal attack. Contradicting you pointing at me and calling me a liar and showing you the falsity of your own stance is not an attack.

You said God was Satan.

I told you what I said, direct quote. You are free to go back and look for yourself. You can twist my words if you desire, still doesn't make you right.

I want to show you how God shows us how to overcome Satan

And I have no desire or need to be "shown" by you.

I know.

Correction, you believe.

You did say God was Satan.
Jesus is the Greatest Love Ever Known. I hope that you will listen to me and consider what I say. You did call God Satan. You can still have a relationship with Jesus Christ. You can still become great in the Kingdom of God.

On the calling "God" "Satan" thing, read above, already covered. As for the rest, I have about as much desire to listen to you as you apparently have to listen to me. I simply don't need to "become great in the Kingdom of God", I already am great, and so is everyone else.