20 Signs that God exist, and Quraan is the word of God

[Sabour]

Malik : Their real wish is to see that you become a disbeliever, as they themselves have disbelieved, so that you may become exactly like them. So you should not take friends from their ranks unless they immigrate in the way of Allah; and if they do not, seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take any of them as protectors or helpers.


Yusuf Ali : They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do and thus be on the same footing (as they): but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. 607 "


Pickthall : They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,



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Are you pointing out that we should be friends,sit and listen for those?

And by the way if you don't know, this verse is talking about the hypocrites and not the non believers. Hypocrites are those who "say they are muslims" but they are not.

4:88What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

4:89They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.


Am not understanding what is the problem ?

 

[Sabour]

What a bunch of illogical BULL!


Just because they have Gay sex they are going to become EVIL? LOL!

When you say Gay. do you mean they were born like this ?

And how exactly can semen be poison to men, - whom I might add, produce it in their own bodies, - but not be poison to women?

So if someone came and hit you, you won't feel any pain? Because he is human and you are human?

 

[Ingledsva]

Are you pointing out that we should be friends,sit and listen for those?

And by the way if you don't know, this verse is talking about the hypocrites and not the non believers. Hypocrites are those who "say they are muslims" but they are not.

4:88What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

4:89They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.


Am not understanding what is the problem ?

BULL! It is talking about murdering apostates! Apostates - "fall back!"



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[Sabour]

BULL! It is talking about murdering apostates! Apostates - "fall back!"



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There is a difference between apostate and hypocrite if you are aware.

 

[Ingledsva]

What a bunch of illogical BULL!


Just because they have Gay sex they are going to become EVIL? LOL!

When you say Gay. do you mean they were born like this ?

ALL real science says people are born homosexual.

And how exactly can semen be poison to men, - whom I might add, produce it in their own bodies, - but not be poison to women?

So if someone came and hit you, you won't feel any pain? Because he is human and you are human?

MY! Your answers are so illogical and off base sometimes, it is amazing!


You said semen was poison to men.


Men make semen - obviously it isn't poison to them!


Men and women are both humans. If semen was poison to men - it would also be poison to women.


Hence - you are wrong!



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[beenie]

This thread has become vile and disgusting. It is really sad how a few people can, for whatever reason, add to the negative stereotypes of a religion.

I refuse to believe any god would sanction killing "gay" people. Come on, it's just sex when it comes down to it. I'm quite certain any god has more important matters to deal with than who puts what body part in another consenting adult.

BULL! It is talking about murdering apostates! Apostates - "fall back!"



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Sorry, but you are mistaken. The quoted verses are indeed talking about hypocrites, not apostates. Please look up the meanings of both words before attacking. While I don't defend the verses above, it helps to know what they actually mean.

 

[cocokorina]

The translation isn't correct,the better translation is

They would love for you disbelieve just as they disbelieve, so you will be exactly like them. Do not adopt sponsors from among them until they migrate along God´s way. If they should ever turn against you, then seize them and kill them wherever you may find them. Do not adopt any sponsor nor supporter from among them,

So if they try to take over you,then you have to fight them.
Of course once they are fighting then how you will be a friend to them,doesn't make sense to be friends and enemies at the same time.


If i was living at those time then i'll obey the messenger,but now i obey God by obeying his message (the quran),How to obey the dead.

Could you please tell me how the prophet prayed when he was at the age of 25.

more dishonesty and lies. you made up your own translation! :clap you know very well how important it is to obey Mohammad's commands. if mohammad' commands were only for those at that time, why was mohammad sent for entire humanity?? and why must muslim recite the kalima which states There is no god, but allah and MOHAMMAD is his messenger?? if mohammad isn't important, why is his name in the shahada?
Also, have you ever heard of Sunnah? please tell me what sunnah is and if it's important for muslims to follow it.
As per islam, Mohammad was taught how to pray through angel Gibrail who taught him how to. and then mohammad taught his followers how to pray. if you dont pray like that, you're not even following the 2nd pillar of islam which is salaat. and you dint reply, do you go to masjid? how does the imam lead prayer if there is no organized set way of praying?? you make no sense whatsover. either you are a terrible muslim yourself who knows nothing about islam, or you're being very deceitful.

 

[cocokorina]

Are you pointing out that we should be friends,sit and listen for those?

And by the way if you don't know, this verse is talking about the hypocrites and not the non believers. Hypocrites are those who "say they are muslims" but they are not.

4:88What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

4:89They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.


Am not understanding what is the problem ?

one-answer, do you believe that all hadith must be disregarded and muslims should ONLY get their information from the quran and only follow quran?

 

[Sabour]

ALL real science says people are born homosexual.

Let's say I agree with that for the sake of argument.

Lut known as Lot in the Old Testament, is a prophet of God in the Quran. He also appears in the Bible, but the biblical stories of Lot are not entirely accepted within Islam. According to Islamic tradition, Lot lived in Ur and was the son of Haran and nephew of Abraham. He migrated with Abraham to Canaan. He was commissioned as a prophet to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. His story is used to demonstrate Islam's disapproval of rape and homosexuality. He was commanded by God to go to the land of Sodom and Gomorrah to preach to his people on monotheism and to stop them from their lustful and violent acts

So this means that he was telling them to stop. If they stopped, would he have told them get lost, God won't forgive you?

The sin is insisting on doing it. Repentance is always open as long as the person didn't die and the sun didn't rise from the west.

Almost all homosexuals have problems and they wish they can stop. They all have the fear that they would be left to grow up alone. And they aren't peace with themselves because they are doing something against human nature. They all want to live a normal life. Islam gives them this opportunity.

Islam doesn't just tell you do and don't. It offers you the way to do it. No soul is charged to what it can't take.

2:268

Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

You said semen was poison to men.

I didn't say that. I didn't research it. I think it is true.

Men make semen - obviously it isn't poison to them!

Men and women are both humans. If semen was poison to men - it would also be poison to women.

Hence - you are wrong![/COLOR][/B]

:clap:clap

 

[Sabour]

one-answer, do you believe that all hadith must be disregarded and muslims should ONLY get their information from the quran and only follow quran?

Nope.

 

[Sabour]

more dishonesty and lies. you made up your own translation! :clap you know very well how important it is to obey Mohammad's commands.

There is the full context of the verse you are referring to.

Are you pointing out that we should be friends,sit and listen for those?

And by the way if you don't know, this verse is talking about the hypocrites and not the non believers. Hypocrites are those who "say they are muslims" but they are not.

4:88What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

4:89They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

if mohammad' commands were only for those at that time, why was mohammad sent for entire humanity??

Most of his teaching were for most time. But I agree there are certain things meant for that time only, or in just some circumstances.

and why must muslim recite the kalima which states There is no god, but allah and MOHAMMAD is his messenger?? if mohammad isn't important, why is his name in the shahada?

Quraan was revealed to the prophet muhammad peace be upon him. When you say you believe in him that means you believe Quraan was the true word of God. And all the other beliefs follow. Like Qadr, all the prophets, Angels ....

Second, we also take this as part of Shhada I guess because the teaching of the prophet are also an important part of Islam.

Also, have you ever heard of Sunnah? please tell me what sunnah is and if it's important for muslims to follow it.

Sunna is what the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him used to do. If we do the same, it is good. If not, it is not a sin.

 

[beenie]

How does Islam allow for homosexuals to have a normal life?

 

[Sabour]

How does Islam allow for homosexuals to have a normal life?

I know you are expecting a long response explaining this, actually this is not the case. The way is down to two words.

Worshiping God.

Islam doesn't just throw you with commandments and tell you do them.

When you worship Allah the way Allah wants you to, there is nothing you can't do.

2:286 Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

 

[beenie]

Worship God and? What about their need for love, companionship, and sex?

 

[cocokorina]

There is the full context of the verse you are referring to.
Are you pointing out that we should be friends,sit and listen for those?

where did you get the context from? my argument was with FearGod who claims no other book should be given any importance other than Quran. if you donot look into tafsir, you cannot get explanation for many things in quran. Tafsir has been narrated from sahabas, mohammad's companions. my post was directed towards FearGod who claims only quran should be given importance. so i want him to defend quran without the use of tafsir which was compiled by sahabas.

Most of his teaching were for most time. But I agree there are certain things meant for that time only, or in just some circumstances.

do you give importance to hadith or not? you said you do. but FearGod doesn't. my post was directed towards him.

Second, we also take this as part of Shhada I guess because the teaching of the prophet are also an important part of Islam.

ofcourse they are! but FearGod denies that. so please let him explain.

 

[Sabour]

Worship God and? What about their need for love, companionship, and sex?

Worship God, and asking Allah for help will make it disappear.

Being homosexual isn't the human's nature. It will be easier than one would think if he gives his heart to Allah.

All Allah wants from us is our heart, what we get in return?

Answer to your prayer, peace, happy life, and an eternal life in heaven.

He created us and gave us everything we enjoy. He gave us freewill so that if we gave our heart back Allah would rewards us. Rewarding us for giving back something he gave us.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Worship God, and asking Allah for help will make it disappear.

Being homosexual isn't the human's nature.

You're mistaken. I've known lots of homosexuals and most of them seemed to have been homosexual from childhood. Not all... but most.

How many homosexuals have you known?

 

[beenie]

Worship God, and asking Allah for help will make it disappear.

Being homosexual isn't the human's nature. It will be easier than one would think if he gives his heart to Allah.

All Allah wants from us is our heart, what we get in return?

Answer to your prayer, peace, happy life, and an eternal life in heaven.

He created us and gave us everything we enjoy. He gave us freewill so that if we gave our heart back Allah would rewards us. Rewarding us for giving back something he gave us.

So they need to stay celibate in your view? God can't and won't "make it go disappear". They were born that way.

I know of many families who refuse to accept their homosexual son, so they either disown him or force him to marry, which in turn destroys more people.

Being homosexual is something people are born with, and God made them as much as he made you and me.

 

[Sabour]

where did you get the context from? my argument was with FearGod who claims no other book should be given any importance other than Quran. if you donot look into tafsir, you cannot get explanation for many things in quran. Tafsir has been narrated from sahabas, mohammad's companions. my post was directed towards FearGod who claims only quran should be given importance. so i want him to defend quran without the use of tafsir which was compiled by sahabas.

From the Quraan. I didn't track the conversation down because it was hard to.

The context is from the Quraan. I just mentioned the verse before it which explains who the verse is talking about.

Believe me I don't make lies about Islam to please anyone.

Allah is perfect, Islam is perfect.

When someone asks me a question that I don't know the answer to, I say I don't know.

do you give importance to hadith or not? you said you do. but FearGod doesn't. my post was directed towards him.

Yeah I understand. I just wanted to share my opinion.

Should I not do it again unless you are asking me ? Or is it okay ?

 

[Ingledsva]

There is a difference between apostate and hypocrite if you are aware.

As I said - it is talking about apostates - as shown by reading surrounding text!


Even - Sahih International - the translation you folks love to use, - says that "fall back" is into DISBELIEF. Thus apostasy.




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