Confused christians

[no-body]

Your reading it like it is a story. It's not a story.

Not sure what you mean by this. If the Christian version of the story is literally true then we are created by a monster and I can see no finer thing in life than to rebel to show we are better than such a monster God. Though I can't fault anyone, I understand why you would side with him if he promised you eternal life and happiness seeing as there is no other way out. Cowardly but practical.

 

[savagewind]

LOL. It sounds like you are calling me a coward. Are you?

If the Christian version of the story is literally true

But it isn't. You know it isn't. I know it isn't. So what's your problem?

 

[Astravalon]

may I respectfully suggest to you that your were not ever truly a christian?

What is it, precisely, about what he's saying that brings you to this conclusion?

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I was definitely a christian... I prayed, went to services (in all the denominations accept Jahova's witness and Ladder day saints), converted people and went on missions. I was quite devout, so much so that I damned people to hell and thought I was justified in doing so. Then I just walked away from it and tried something else... I studied everything and talked to as many people as possible. I found that outside of the christian world, people were much more accepting of my personage and my personal rights. They didn't try to indoctrinate me or change my beliefs in any fashion. I read books by Kant, Huxley, Watts and Jung. I followed path after path and nothing filled that thing in the back of my mind, until I let it all go. Then it all came to me at once... Religion doesn't matter, a belief in a god doesn't matter and most certainly, nothing in the past matters nor does the future. I found that, all that matters is now. This moment in which I can say these things to you and breath this air. I don't have to be afraid of divine retribution, for I found that no god would care. I only have myself to blame for my mistakes and only I can move past them. We're all stuck in our own skin and in this way, we're most certainly in the same situation.

 

[savagewind]

I think what Lady B means is Christian as in sheep who HEAR the voice of the Fine Shepherd, not Christianity of which you were a fine member bigjimslade.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Luke 8:18 Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."

Hebrews 3:7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice,

John 10:4' When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."



If that is what Lady B means, then I believe her, but I don't see any benefit in telling someone what they were not.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I had too many questions and most of them were "why is it like this?" and "why is it important to degrade and shun others that might not agree?" Why was I told to indoctrinate people when they were fine the way they were? I think the first step to my abandonment of churchianity was hearing a friend damn people he'd never met. I was like that but I guess I'd never thought about it until I saw someone else do it.

 

[savagewind]

You say you were not a Jehovah's Witness? As far as I know they do not degrade people but it is institutions that they demean and it is people who make them up. So I had a similar experience. I have heard not all churches are into cutting people up.

 

[oldbadger]

Hi bigjim..... I'm back for a bit.
There is only one Christian group that I know whose 'leavers' are 'white with anger and contention.' Bigjim, when you were a Christian, were you prepared to eat or drink amongst non-believers?

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I was raised to see people as equals and yet, through the church, I didn't. I was just as indoctrinated as any true believer, I just had to live in suffering and face the truths of life and death, suffering and happiness. It took seeing the worst of it, to break me from being the worst of it and finally I just let it go.

 

[oldbadger]

Bigjim:- OK....... Can you....will you....tell which denomination of christian you were? I'll go first, I was a Church of England-Protestant.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

Lutheran, methodist, Baptist, southern babtist, catholic, anglican, presbaterian, unitarian and whatever else I could get into.

 

[ChristineES]

I had too many questions and most of them were "why is it like this?" and "why is it important to degrade and shun others that might not agree?" Why was I told to indoctrinate people when they were fine the way they were? I think the first step to my abandonment of churchianity was hearing a friend damn people he'd never met. I was like that but I guess I'd never thought about it until I saw someone else do it.

I don't know which denominations you went to, but I don't recall ever being taught to shun people who don't agree-- I have been to several different Baptist Churches, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, United Church of Christ, and Jehovah's Witnesses (Kingdom Hall), and more (I am a Baptist, though). We were taught to "witness" (particularly with the JWs and Baptists) but I wouldn't call that indoctrination. A lot of the Christians I knew would talk about hell, but very few of them actually pointed to people and "damned" them- especially people they didn't know.

How can two people have such different experiences in the same faith? Kind of confusing to me.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

"If they still don't listen, dust your feet off and be on your way".

 

[oldbadger]

Bigjim:- Oh thank goodness for that..... genuinely. You had me really worried for a bit. The really deadly ones won't eat/drink with others, and when they appear in public to 'proselytise' they just stare straight ahead and upwards as they speak..... I get the impression that they don't really want anyone to actually approach them. A strange group. I don't want to name them, but they scare the hell out of me.

So sometimes you did not believe in Jesus as a God, and sometimes you did, according to which group you were with?

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I changed based on an awakening of sorts... I saw the true message I was meant to get from it and it didn't involve religion. I'm not an atheist by any means but I grew to despise many religions and not the people. When I look at the world, I see it much in the same way as Thomas or Siddhartha. A veil was lifted and the world came to me and all things became one.

 

[ChristineES]

"If they still don't listen, dust your feet off and be on your way".

I take that as more "don't bother them about it anymore" than shunning them. But we all see things differently.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

The point of the post is that I wouldn't walk away. I would find something else to talk about and enjoy the human contact. I would not see that person as condemned and I wouldn't push the issue as many do. And I see that I just agreed with you to an extent.

 

[oldbadger]

Thomas, as in 'The Book of Thomas'? And Siddartha Gautauma (spelling?).
You wrote:- A veil was lifted and the world came to me and all things became one.
So, at one time you were in a state of serene fulfillment? So what happened to cause your faith to 'crash and burn'?

 

[ChristineES]

The point of the post is that I wouldn't walk away. I would find something else to talk about and enjoy the human contact. I would not see that person as condemned and I wouldn't push the issue as many do. And I see that I just agreed with you to an extent.

As would I. I generally like people (most people), I have a variety of interests- as most people do.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

The fact that faith was not important in a ecumenical sense. I didn't feel the need to pursue something I could not attain. I moved on to attain more time with the world and not in my own mind. I stopped chasing and then I didn't have to. The letting go of my title and position was the best thing that ever happened to me. A suggestion; Read the definition of attitude and I know you'll see where I'm coming from. My attitude changed and so did my understanding of god/God and how it's the same no matter where I go or what I see. As I was taught by a spiritual man "When the light enetrs the mind, the one becomes the many. when the light enters the heart, the many become the one".