Confused christians

[oldbadger]

The way that you wrote that last post reads to me as if you felt so deep within your faith that you almost had certitude, and then it crashed.... shattered?
I have read about advanced mystics reaching a point where they become massively seriously troubled, and then 'everything' seems to fall away and they find a serene state or condition of wonderment which leads them on to final goals.
Is there a chance that you have crashed into this state, and might travel through it to some wondeful state of mind/soul beyond?
Or is this a plummeting to earth, job?

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I'm speaking of the feeling that I and a tree are no different and that my arm is no different from that of the wing of a fly. I had a wonderful dream in which I saw a child drawing a picture. As he drew, his pictures came to life. I asked what it meant and he said it was right in front of me and I realized the child was me.

 

[oldbadger]

Wow..... I tell you..... not many of us have revelations like that.
On occasions where I feel 'on top of the world' or as if my soul is soaring in the clouds, something says to me 'watch out!' 'take care' and 'all is not what it seems'. So I try to land carefully.

I don't know why I am writing this to you, but on occasions when i feel a bit 'down' i go through all my personal possessions and extract as much stuff as i can in a 'do i really really need this?' format, and then i take the stuff down to charity shop,or just flog it, and this raises me to the clouds! I don't apply any of this 'reduction of property' to my wife, just to my own personal stuff.

I got rid of my car four years ago, and just ride a folding bike now, and stuff like that. Sold the motor yacht etc. (Natalie hated it anyway) and reduced down to a mere nothing by comparison with 'before', and i have never felt more free in my life.

I'm not telling you to chuck everything out! I am just saying that there are all kinds of ways to raise one's spirits and leave the the 'rubbish' behind. It looks as if it is time for you to go to the local spiritual tip with your old religious baggage and just 'chuck it away'! Did I ever enjoy doing that with my old religious rubbish!

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I ride a bike and have very little. In being separate from joy, one can have a better understanding of what it means to feel it. To suffer greatly opens the door for true happiness. If one can see the illusion of suffering and happiness, liberation is not far behind.

 

[oldbadger]

Brilliant. You write as a buddhist might. You referred to the Buddha before......

You were just reading Shuddavasta (spelling?) in another thread?. I was reading two Buddhists discussing how to deal with intrusive-thoughts whilst meditating and the mere 'posts' were calming and settling. I am not unduly affected by auto-suggestion, so this effect must be totally beneficial.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

It's an escape from the self and all things encompassing the word I. I can lead myself down the path of desire or I can leave myself alone and act as a gentleman. The whole Confucian thing has gotten into all of the chinese culture, including buddhism. The idea is that you are already enlightened, you just don't know it. When you realize that are, you lose it. Enlightenment is not something you grasp hold of, so one must let it go and will come to you.

 

[otokage007]

It is called...

 

[InfidelRiot]

It is called...

Scary.

 

[Lady B]

It's an escape from the self and all things encompassing the word I. I can lead myself down the path of desire or I can leave myself alone and act as a gentleman. The whole Confucian thing has gotten into all of the chinese culture, including buddhism. The idea is that you are already enlightened, you just don't know it. When you realize that are, you lose it. Enlightenment is not something you grasp hold of, so one must let it go and will come to you.

I am truly sorry you had a bad experience with the Christian church. I do agree some denominations are very aggressive, I would surmise they Do not evangelize as Christ teaches.
As far as Damning anyone to hell, That is most shocking to me, God alone has the power to decide anyone's fate and shame on The pious Christian who takes this authority into their hands.
I just want you to know though you have seen the worst of us, This is not the correct portrayal of Christianity.:sad4:

 

[Tristesse]

I am truly sorry you had a bad experience with the Christian church. I do agree some denominations are very aggressive, I would surmise they Do not evangelize as Christ teaches.
As far as Damning anyone to hell, That is most shocking to me, God alone has the power to decide anyone's fate and shame on The pious Christian who takes this authority into their hands.
I just want you to know though you have seen the worst of us, This is not the correct portrayal of Christianity.:sad4:

Well, I'm sure from some christians point of view it makes it a lot easier for them to determine who is and isn't going to hell or heaven, when they claim to have a book that is an authority from this god, and it outlines the rules for determining who can and can't make it to heaven. Damning people to hell becomes a lot easier when "god" gives you a book explaining the rules for membership.

 

[ChristineES]

Not even Christians could tell who is going to "hell" or not going to "hell" (hell as a separation from God, not as some fiery furnace) and we all know everyone is going to die physically (hell as the grave). Only God can see our "hearts" (not our literal heart). That is the reason we are not supposed to condemn others, or at least one of the reasons.

 

[dawny0826]

Christians have a tendency to cherry pick historic events and twist the facts to fit their belief. For example; Hitler was not an atheist and christianity is not the only charitable institution. The christian community is the only group that claims any true innocence but we know different... Christianity has more blood on it's record and has committed more acts of genocide than any other religious group on earth. To disprove their claim as the most popular religion on earth, the average is less than 30% and falling. Even christians mark I don't know on religious poles at this point. So how is it that this disgusting brain poison still exists?

Christians aren't the only people who enjoy cherry picking historic events, so I wouldn't be too harsh. And it's rather unfair to blanket label Christianity. Not all Christians approach Christianity in the same manner.

Ignorance, intolerance and hatred and is disgusting, regardless of the creed.

 

[Lady B]

Well, I'm sure from some christians point of view it makes it a lot easier for them to determine who is and isn't going to hell or heaven, when they claim to have a book that is an authority from this god, and it outlines the rules for determining who can and can't make it to heaven. Damning people to hell becomes a lot easier when "god" gives you a book explaining the rules for membership.

We cannot possibly know what is in a man's heart and condemn him even by his outward appearance, Only God knows the heart of man as stated in the bible. A good portrayal of this is in the crucifiction, Jesus was being crucified along side 2 other criminals. One mocked him and said" are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!" the other man said " do you not fear God? We are here because we deserve to be, he has done nothing wrong" then turned to Christ and said" Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom" Jesus answered him" today you shall see me in paradise"
So even though this man led a criminals life, knew he deserved his fate, Christ assured him heaven. No one knew his heart but Christ and I wish all Christians would realize this is not our call.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

Teaching children to avoid other religions is wrong, Teaching children not to listen to their teachers is wrong and telling a child to accept or burn isn't cool either. I don't believe a child should be brought into it unless their given a choice to decide if they want it. Put a bible in front of them and let them read it without guidance, then give them the baghivad ghita, the torra, and the works of all the buddhist patriarchs and if they should choose none, love that child the same.

 

[ChristineES]

To be honest, I wouldn't want to have children read all the holy books of every religion, unless they want to. I wouldn't even have my child read a Bible, either, until they are old enough. Each person has to make their own choices and parents can't make it for them. Parents of atheists shouldn't have to have their children read holy books, either.

It might be a good idea to tell your children that there are other faiths that others follow and maybe give them a brief overview of the major ones (I mean, if you know it). I did that with my kids a bit. But you can't really force parents to do this.

 

[bigjimslade1000]

I've seen christian parents encourage it, through somewhat devious means. They ask their children a question about school and what they've learned, then they go to work on them. They tell their children how Darwin was wrong and what not. Darwin wasn't wrong and if he'd even admitted it was wrong, it was because the Darwinian model was incomplete. Darwin had no idea about transitional species or the evolution of dentition. All that aside... Christians when asked why they don't believe in evolution, pull out the 200 year old Darwinian model, not even considering how the science has progressed. To put such outdated logic into their child's mind is baffling to me. I don't think that christianity makes people better either, for their just the same, only they use Jesus to comfort themselves.

 

[waitasec]

and would not have existed?

This isn't true. Religion has attempted to remove those distinctions. The distinctions that you see in religion are the ones reflecting the World, not the other way around imo.

right... by converting people to one "true" belief

 

[waitasec]

I will not attempt to defend God and his alleged "crimes",

:spit:
let me spell this out for you....you did attempt to defend god when you said this:

He is God while we are men rationalizing with the pitiful minds we have.

 

[waitasec]

We cannot possibly know what is in a man's heart and condemn him even by his outward appearance, Only God knows the heart of man as stated in the bible.

which is inclined to being evil...unless you believe the right belief and become a "chosen one"

 

[bigjimslade1000]

The whole idea of relying on 2000+ year old logic for guidance is, to me, insane. In the biblical era, lightning was seen as an act of God and an earthquake was also. The bible is not a reliable source of information and the fact that it's writing lends it no more credence than any other work of fiction, makes the argument for it only more confounding.