Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals?

[LuisDantas]

well being a muslim means to accept islam as the only right religion. what would it mean about the truthfulness of islam if it taught that other religions could be correct or that they are partially correct? it would flat out mean that islam is not the true religion.

I thought the Quran said that Judaism and Christianity are partially correct. Am I mistaken about that?

caould be.

There are testimonials aplenty, both here in these forums and out there in real life. Children raised by homosexual couples just aren't any more likely to homosexual themselves then children in general.

They are, of course, far less likely to hate homosexuality than most people.

so where do ex-homosexuals stand?

Far as I can tell, there are no true ex-homosexuals.

There might be homosexuals that repress themselves, or bisexuals who eventually settle for heterosexual commited relationships. But I very much doubt there are "cured" homosexuals anywhere, except perhaps as a very rare, freaky occurrence.

and regarding the last bit of your post, if they are going to be there regardless then still my answer is no. islam says prohibit what is sinful and encourage what is beneficial, since homosexuality itself is considered a sin then how can i say yes to such a marriage, i would be contradicting the Quran.

I'm sorry that you view homosexuality as a sin. That is a very sad feeling, one which weights heavily upon people that really have neither choice nor bad intents on the matter, and are causing no one harm by simply being what they are.

Even so, married people tend to be happier and less of a burden to other people. Forbidding marriage to homosexuals is not beneficial to anyone else, and very much helpful in making their participation in society healthier and more constructive overall.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

and regarding the last bit of your post, if they are going to be there regardless then still my answer is no. islam says prohibit what is sinful and encourage what is beneficial, since homosexuality itself is considered a sin then how can i say yes to such a marriage, i would be contradicting the Quran.

What does the Quran say about being charitable toward children?

Same-sex couples do have children; many of the benefits of marriage are designed with protection of the family in mind. Banning same-sex marriage denies these protections to the children of same-sex parents.

Exactly where in the Quran does it say "if a person does things that you consider 'sinful', punish his children"? ... because that's what banning same-sex marriage usually amounts to.

 

[*Anne*]

from an islamic perspective, i could give you some information on it from my own islamic perspective...

I'd be willing to listen.

i was just after a simple answer to my question.

Oh my gosh. Wouldn't a simple, final answer to this be great?

 

[LuisDantas]

sorry but i don't see that as a good idea. you see i have my own perspective on it based on islamic teachings, if i had an islamic perspective based on islamic teachings then i would present that.

Sorry. I keep thinking of Muslims as being representatives of Islam. It just comes so naturally to me.

Still, I would very much like to hear from your personal perspective. I can't help but wonder why you find homosexuality so wrong.

lets just say this, in islam all evil (which is sin) stems from the devil so from an islamic perspective homosexuality stems from the interference of the devil, just as theft and lying stems from him too. thats all i will say.

I would rather not try to second-guess what is evil or what is not according to Islamic doctrine, since I am not a Muslim. But still, I want to say that avoiding people can be very hurtful and make them less receptive to one's good intent.

I don't know if you feel that ultimately avoiding homosexuals is the best approach, but ultimately they are people just like anyone else, and just as deserving of acceptance and happiness as anyone else. People should be allowed to pursue happiness, at least when they aren't getting in the way of others' rights while at that.

 

[Madhuri]

I've heard some Muslims say that homosexuality is God testing people. If this is true, then homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality, but the individual is supposed to deny it in order to pass the test.

Why do you think some Muslims have this perspective?

 

[Badran]

Your reasons could be expressed or hidden that is the point.

I see, well, which part exactly of my reason did you not see and then say i'm hiding?

I've explained to you twice what i'm supporting, and how i'm supporting it despite my religion's position from the matter, but here's a third time in different words.

My religion teaches that somethings are right and somethings are wrong. Rights and wrongs in my religion however vary, they are not all the same, and are not all of the type that warrant intervention from me in the form of trying to stop other people from doing such thing, or seeking they get punished if they do. Most things actually belong to this department, and that includes the case of this thread. I'm not required to make people's decisions for them, nor oppress them into doing as i please or believe, as that is unfair as well as pointless and holds no value.

Clear now?

 

[Foxfire]

I didn't answer the poll because because my answer wasn't there. I neither support nor not support the rights of homosexuals. Sometimes the questions we ask are the problem. I think sometimes we make problems out of thin air just so we can feel better about the way we have chosen to live as opposed to someone else. That means ego rules and not compassion or non-self.

I think for myself. If two people love each other then that love morphs and spreads out in a universal way to include their family and friends, co-workers and strangers. It moves out to the community, the region, the country, the world.

Not one word written anywhere, especially over two thousand yeas ago, will ever make me change, on its own merit, how I move about in and react in my world. No 'religion' will tell me what I can and cannot love. If pure love (read compassion here as well) is the reason, then there is nothing to take a stand for or against. It is simply another manifestation of human greatness that gets us all a little closer to harmony and peace.

Relax and chill. Help those less fortunate instead of worrying about something so trivial and worthless.

I realize there are people out there who apparently form beliefs from their religions' books and writings. I don't understand and I don't think I ever will why some people need someone or something else to do their thinking for them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I didn't answer the poll because because my answer wasn't there. I neither support nor not support the rights of homosexuals. Sometimes the questions we ask are the problem. I think sometimes we make problems out of thin air just so we can feel better about the way we have chosen to live as opposed to someone else. That means ego rules and not compassion or non-self.

I support same-sex marriage, and I do so on the basis of compassion.

I think for myself. If two people love each other then that love morphs and spreads out in a universal way to include their family and friends, co-workers and strangers. It moves out to the community, the region, the country, the world.

Not one word written anywhere, especially over two thousand yeas ago, will ever make me change, on its own merit, how I move about in and react in my world. No 'religion' will tell me what I can and cannot love. If pure love (read compassion here as well) is the reason, then there is nothing to take a stand for or against. It is simply another manifestation of human greatness that gets us all a little closer to harmony and peace.

The same-sex marriage debate isn't about legislating who you can and can't love; it's about deciding how we as a society should respond to loving couples and their children.

Relax and chill. Help those less fortunate instead of worrying about something so trivial and worthless.

Wait... is that same-sex marriage that you're saying is trivial and worthless? Marriage in general? Something else?

 

[McBell]

muslims do not believe in 'climbing out of trees'.

Since when do you speak for all Muslims?

 

[Foxfire]

I support same-sex marriage, and I do so on the basis of compassion.


The same-sex marriage debate isn't about legislating who you can and can't love; it's about deciding how we as a society should respond to loving couples and their children.


Wait... is that same-sex marriage that you're saying is trivial and worthless? Marriage in general? Something else?

Well, even if the question means looking at society and wondering how it should respond to two people loving each other, then go all out and hammer out the details. I'll be doing something else. We have one system in place and maybe we should just let the new one evolve naturally. Love is love. If you want to look at marriage as society looks at it - good people do what you're told and no one will get hurt - then the gays and lesbians should take this bit of advice - play nice, promise to conform and eventually the uproar will subside and we'll find something else.

My remark about being trivial and worthless was not directed at same-sex marriage. That the topic, to me, seems to be so prevalent and seems to be such a pressing issue for the continuation of earth rotations, is trivial and worthless. Of course, I am stating my own opinion.

What I am trying to say is I don't find this issue about same-sex marriage an issue. I guess I don't get out much, but whatever...

 

[zer0]

I think that homosexuals should be able to get married, but I also think that marriage should not be a matter of the state.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, even if the question means looking at society and wondering how it should respond to two people loving each other, then go all out and hammer out the details. I'll be doing something else.

So... for example, when a person is incapacitated in the hospital, and the hospital staff decide to bar the patient's partner because they're not "married", or when the patient eventually dies and custody of his children is given to a homophobic relative instead of the only other parent they've ever known, you'll turn your back?

Good to know.

We have one system in place and maybe we should just let the new one evolve naturally. Love is love. If you want to look at marriage as society looks at it - good people do what you're told and no one will get hurt - then the gays and lesbians should take this bit of advice - play nice, promise to conform and eventually the uproar will subside and we'll find something else.

That seems awfully callous coming from someone who was just advocating compassion.

My remark about being trivial and worthless was not directed at same-sex marriage. That the topic, to me, seems to be so prevalent and seems to be such a pressing issue for the continuation of earth rotations, is trivial and worthless. Of course, I am stating my own opinion.

Again... so much for compassion.

What I am trying to say is I don't find this issue about same-sex marriage an issue. I guess I don't get out much, but whatever...

Most of the rights of marriage become really important - vital, even - during the most difficult parts of our lives. You may not need the piece of paper to make a home together, but you often do need it to safeguard the well-being of your family when crises hit. Because of this, in my mind, banning same-sex marriage mainly amounts to kicking people when they're down.

But you've made it clear that you don't care. That's your prerogative, I guess, but it's definitely not a position I agree with.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think that homosexuals should be able to get married, but I also think that marriage should not be a matter of the state.

There are matters such as inheritance, child custody and medical decisions that are very hard to decide without some sort of officially-recognized marriage, don't you agree?

 

[Gharib]

Since when do you speak for all Muslims?

my bad, there could be muslims who are not well educated in islamic teachings regarding the matter and might believe in the ape to man theory, i should have said islam rather than muslims. thanks for pointing that out.

 

[LuisDantas]

my bad, there could be muslims who are not well educated in islamic teachings regarding the matter and might believe in the ape to man theory, i should have said islam rather than muslims. thanks for pointing that out.

Hopefully there are Muslims who are well educated in biology and know about Evolution, too.

As an aside, there is no ape to man theory as such. Apes are humanity's cousins, not its ancestors proper.

If Islam teaches to ignore known scientific fact, then it is badly derailed. Hopefully that is not the case.

 

[Katzpur]

Also, there's a distinction that Badran touched on: the distinction between our personal codes of behaviour, which we only impose on ourselves, and secular law, which is imposed on everyone.

And it's a distinction I just fruballed Badran for making.

*** Shhhh. Don't anybody tell MadHatter I was here. ***

 

[Gharib]

Sexual feelings are a part of who we are. You can bring up your kids without ever mentioning sex or attraction but once they hit puberty, they will naturally start to feel attractions.

There are exceptions though.

There are asexuals, people who have no sexual feelings, and this can cause them great confusion and distress, especially because it is very uncommon.

There are people who are homosexual. These are people who since they first begin to have feelings of sexuality, find themselves attracted to the same sex. Most people throughout history have been brought up in an environment where homosexuality is viewed by society as abhorrent and unnatural. So these people grow up feeling a lot of guilt and shame and end up living a lie.

Eselam, homosexuality is not a choice. It is a feeling, a desire as potent as the feelings and desires that you may feel for a woman. Most homosexual people I have known will tell you that they have always felt that way, and many have struggled with feelings of shame because their parents taught them that it was wrong.

If homosexuality were a choice, then it means that everyone has some desires for the same sex but simply choose one way or the other. But I can say that this is not true, because I do not have even a slight attraction to females. I am very accepting of homosexuals, I have always been a liberal person. And yet I have no sexual desire for women. So homosexuality can never be a choice for me because it would be a situation I could not find pleasure or happiness in.

Does that make sense?

I will also tell you the other common sexuality: bisexuality. As you probably know, bisexuals have sexual feelings for both men and women. There are some bisexuals who will display heterosexual traits and later become permanently involved with someone of the same sex.
It would not surprise me if religious people confuse homosexuals with bisexuals.
The difference is that a homosexual will have absolutely no attraction for someone of the opposite sex. If you feel absolutely no attraction for other men, Eselam, this is the same lack of feeling that a homosexual will experience toward someone of the opposite sex.

Heterosexuality is not a choice if a person cannot become sexually motivated for someone of the opposite sex.

what you've said is clear, i understand it. but i still dissagree that is is natural as in a god given thing.

 

[darkendless]

what you've said is clear, i understand it. but i still dissagree that is is natural as in a god given thing.

Then how did it come about? If your God is responsible for heterosexuality and procreation surely he's responsible for homosexuality as well?

 

[LuisDantas]

What else could it possibly be (assuming that there is a creator God)?

 

[darkendless]

What else could it possibly be (assuming that there is a creator God)?

Devils work