Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Nope. That's why I later said that maybe what I had heard could've been a different version than others have heard.
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For Those Who Believe in the Story of Lucifer
- Thread starter Magic Man
- Start date
Nope. That's why I later said that maybe what I had heard could've been a different version than others have heard.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I suppose that answers your question then?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Um...no. My question was "For those who believe in the story of Lucifer, how do you reconcile these things?"
I guess for some, I might have to break it down into two questions: Do you believe that Lucifer was an angel with no free will who disobeyed God and became Satan? that's the first one. If your answer is yes, then I'll ask you the second question.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Good grief! There is no scriptural proof that angels do not have free will. There is scriptural proof that Lucifer excercised free will. Ergo, angels have free will. Next question please.
Perhaps you are just trying to clarify the concept of the non-biblical lucifer?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
So, you don't believe in the story as I have presented it, right?
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Ahhh, broken down for us Simple Simons, thank you
I am out then because my answer to the first question is NO
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Just what I said. I'm not sure why it's so confusing to you.
So why didn't God just put the Tree in the Garden and say, "Don't eat this"? Why didn't He make sure Satan didn't have an opportunity to tempt them with godhood?
I understand all of that. What you're evidently not getting is that they didn't have a knowledge of good or evil at that time. How were they to judge what was right and what was wrong? Of course, Satan's promise sounded tempting. God could have made it much more likely that they remain in the Garden. All He would have had to do was keep Satan out.
If you had no concept of what pain was, would you even know that you had good health? If you'd never known sadness, how would you recognize joy? Opposition is essential to growth and progression. Think about it. It's absolutely impossible to appreciate the good without having also experienced its opposite. It's not rocket science, really.
who exactly is lucifer? is this a dumb question? saan and lucifer are different? help
I actually i am. id like to not made to feel like more of and idiot with rhetorical questions if you dnt mind.ive heard talk about lucifer n a certain way that made me wonder if they weret alking about satan...so...of course i want to know for sure...forgive me for not knowing about lucifer......
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Most Christians believe that Satan and Lucifer are the same individual, deelo.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
How can you be '100% Christian' and not even know what is in your own book?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
A lot of people claim to be Christians and yet are willing to admit that they don't know everything the Bible has to say. I'm much more impressed by the Christian who says, "Help me out here," than I am with the know-it-all Christian. I consider myself to be 100% Christian, too, but I learn new things from other Christians on RF all the time.
Captain Civic
version 2.0
I thought this was a place where you could learn, not be told what you should believe?
Anyway, Lucifer was Satan's original name when he was loyal to God. When he rebelled, he took on the name Satan. The names are used interchangeably, but normally a reference to Lucifer is a reference to the Satan that exists now.
I thought this was a place where you could learn, not be told what you should believe?
Anyway, Lucifer was Satan's original name when he was loyal to God. When he rebelled, he took on the name Satan. The names are used interchangeably, but normally a reference to Lucifer is a reference to the Satan that exists now.
thanks! i guess sme people think your supposed to know everything...
thanks i agree. i dont know everything and i wont pretend for a second that i do.i dont expect anyone else to know everything either.
My turn!
From what I've heard, Lucifer was the "First, Most Fair, Most Bright." My beliefs on Lucifer differ from traditional Christian beliefs, but I've never seen him in the Bible. Just Satan and some other devils. I don't believe Lucifer, the Morning Star, to be the same entity as the satan, Belial, or the King of Evil, Beezlebul.
Be careful, the following paragraph will no doubt be potentially offensive, and note that I just came up with it after listening to the Prince of Egypt soundtrack. (I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!)
To me, the rebellious Angel of Light has multiple stories. One story is that held traditionally which has been stated many times here already, so I have no need to repeat it. Another popular one is that Lucifer is Jesus, as he said in Revelations(too lazy to go look at one of my Bibles to see where it is) that he is the Morning Star, thus literally saying, "I am Lucifer." Thus Lucifer isn't the satan. But I just came up with another story. As we all are aware, miracles in nature of the likeness of the Ten Plagues and parting of the Red Sea have not occurred anywhere in recent history. So I suspect that the Spiritual Realm has a set of laws set forth by the Celestial Order that no divine being may interact physically with the world of Man. (That is, our Earth) But, seeing his people tortured so in Egypt and the Egyptian gods doing nothing about it, YHWH, God and Watcher of the Hebrews, broke with the Order, never to see Heaven again, so that he could save them from the oppression. So, Lucifer, the Morning Star, could in fact have been YHWH all along. I just made that up today, so I understand if it seems a little silly.
The way I see it, the Bible has too many holes in it for us to know the full story, and I'm more interested in the mythology of it all, of which there is little in the New testament, but of which there is plenty in the Old Testament. (run-on sentences for the win!! :sad4
Let the flaming of Riverwolf begin!!!:angel2: FYI jk
From what I've heard, Lucifer was the "First, Most Fair, Most Bright." My beliefs on Lucifer differ from traditional Christian beliefs, but I've never seen him in the Bible. Just Satan and some other devils. I don't believe Lucifer, the Morning Star, to be the same entity as the satan, Belial, or the King of Evil, Beezlebul.
Be careful, the following paragraph will no doubt be potentially offensive, and note that I just came up with it after listening to the Prince of Egypt soundtrack. (I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!)
To me, the rebellious Angel of Light has multiple stories. One story is that held traditionally which has been stated many times here already, so I have no need to repeat it. Another popular one is that Lucifer is Jesus, as he said in Revelations(too lazy to go look at one of my Bibles to see where it is) that he is the Morning Star, thus literally saying, "I am Lucifer." Thus Lucifer isn't the satan. But I just came up with another story. As we all are aware, miracles in nature of the likeness of the Ten Plagues and parting of the Red Sea have not occurred anywhere in recent history. So I suspect that the Spiritual Realm has a set of laws set forth by the Celestial Order that no divine being may interact physically with the world of Man. (That is, our Earth) But, seeing his people tortured so in Egypt and the Egyptian gods doing nothing about it, YHWH, God and Watcher of the Hebrews, broke with the Order, never to see Heaven again, so that he could save them from the oppression. So, Lucifer, the Morning Star, could in fact have been YHWH all along. I just made that up today, so I understand if it seems a little silly.
The way I see it, the Bible has too many holes in it for us to know the full story, and I'm more interested in the mythology of it all, of which there is little in the New testament, but of which there is plenty in the Old Testament. (run-on sentences for the win!! :sad4
Let the flaming of Riverwolf begin!!!:angel2: FYI jk
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Wait a minute . . . this wasn't some esoteric, deep, hidden mystery buried in codes of the OT, this was "who is Satan?" outside of GOD & Yeshua this is the most important entity in that book . . . and the question came from someone named 100% Christian! . . . that said, I am very sorry if I was rude to you and I apologize, yes this forum is to learn from and my impatience was wrong.
Em hotep
Em hotep
I know. The question was "Who is Satan?" and I answered with my beliefs. I don't mean to say that they are "hidden codes," but rather, "Fanfics." Not at all what the authors had in mind, but my own interpretation. I don't think it's even possible to know what various authors of the Bible had in mind.