God

[Judgment]

Beaudreaux: After reading some of your posts, I am not at all sure that logical contradictions in your position cause you any concern. (No offense intended by that. It just seems that you are pretty far out there.) That said, here's a pretty big one in your position.
God does not change
God is everything
Therefore nothing changes
Does it bother you that change is constantly observed?

Pretty far out there? You have no idea my friend : )
There are no true contradictions - I am just unable to explain it in a way that you understand. Your question was answered in previous posts. God is 'Now' - but we have chosen to experience our lives as a series of moments. For us - change is evident. God - remains the same. We are part of God - but we are only pieces of the whole.

 

[Judgment]

Methylatedghosts: If god was complete, and finished, and perfect, then why the need for the illusion?
And how does a sense of free will fit into all this? If I'm already in my grave, (i.e., the "future" and the "past" being NOW) this implies that I've also already lived my life, and that all my choices have already been made. How could I possibly ever really, honestly, choose - if I've already chosen.

This Illusion is for us - to experience. You are choosing right now. If everything is happening 'right now' there is no real past and future.

 

[Alla Prima]

Any evidence of a 'God' for me is found in the ultimate nature of all things - the lack of essence or emptiness. It's because of this nature that all things are made manifest so that's as close to a recognition of 'God' I get.

 

[Bishadi]

There exists other areas of existence that do not rely on words - where a deeper conciousness resides. Such as.. in certain dream states... where your counciousness experiences profound revelations out of chaos - there are no words or clear images - but - there is an understanding that goes beyond such things.

i can see how you reached that conclusion; ................. life doesn't rely on words, so experience is not dependent of articulation

This understanding resides not just in the mind.. For we are not tied to our physical bodies, this understanding does not need to rely on the words of man.

the 'i' of you is bound to mass, as when the body is tired your capacity to interact with existence is no longer available.


Can the 'you' by choice continue to communicate when sleeping? Such can you call me tonight during sleep?


Even so the 'i' having choice to interact is when consciously awake.

I did not say not to listen and speak. BUT...

Do not hold the words of ‘anyone’ above your own inner Knowledge and Understanding.

Knowledge is learned, experiences are felt, understanding is when the 2 combine.

Be wary of anyone that tells you their way is the only way and that you will be brutally punished for veering from the path.

There is only ‘one way’ according to many holy books – and unfortunately, once one becomes a follower of such dogma, that dogma becomes part of them, and when they hear something, anything that does not match with that belief system they will only say – That is wrong! My Way is the only Way! – My Truth is the only Truth! – My God is the only God!

any can understand 'be wary'

dogma is often of some basis: perhaps some is of prophecy (a sight experienced, often conveyed in metaphor because the words did not exist to understand what was seen)

such as the experience to/with existence is usually always true. (monsters of dreams are often created)......... But truth only works ONE way. Same with existence. Such that nature has no 2 systems for life to exist. The diversity is the knowledge that has been learned/created. (word are mans creation... note...languages)

Everything I have done, in my life, has brought me to this point and time.

riding on the back of a horse..... you stir here or there but time is still being experienced as new.

did not create you or your words - but - I did create myself, my words. That does not mean that I had no say in us coming together in this conversation.

that would mean between you and i you 'knew' you were going to meet the hammer

We were meant to speak at this time and this place - because we chose to meet. Consciously. no. But... subconsciously - yes. There is a deeper understanding that is not on the surface.

are you in contact with this?

Yes... all energy interacts with all other energy.

so then of perfection to the sciences, the last 'word' is the name to know (the math that provides the foundation for all sciences to combine)

what would be the pinnacle, if there was a single spark to reveal equally to mankind?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Pretty far out there? You have no idea my friend : )
There are no true contradictions - I am just unable to explain it in a way that you understand. Your question was answered in previous posts. God is 'Now' - but we have chosen to experience our lives as a series of moments. For us - change is evident. God - remains the same. We are part of God - but we are only pieces of the whole.

If you are unable to explain away the contradictions, how do you know they are not there? For instance, you say that "we have chosen to experience our lives as a series of moments". Choice

• Is a timebound term
• Necessitates change

And even if the things we experience are all in the "now", our experience of them is time bound.

 

[gnomon]

That is what I said.

Does a mentally retarded human being create their own reality?

And if they do, is it due to a conscious choice?

If not, then is reality truly being created by unconscious choices?

If the answer to the last question is yes, then is the reality being created nothing more than an interpretation of reality? For if created reality is nothing more than an interpretation is not truly a created morality?

 

[challupa]

I am fascinated by Pantheism, but I must say pondering these kinds of questions always ends up with me staring at my navel after a few shots and wondering if I'm still here. It's deep stuff.

Doesn't the concept of experience mandate duality? Don't I have to experience something? If God is everything then what is there for Him to experience?

Maybe God's the concept and we are in the physical realm bringing that concept into a place of experience?

 

[gnomon]

Maybe God's the concept and we are in the physical realm bringing that concept into a place of experience?

Storm once asked us atheists to envision a concept of God.

I responded about how possibly the creation of the universe was a central conscience that "exploded" (poor euphemism) itself into disparate parts, the universe, and the whole purpose of the universe was for this central conscience to experience itself. The end result would be the whole of the universe coalescing itself back to a singularity. To possibly repeat the process.

I think Scott Adams put forth this same type of concept. I prefer Isaac Asimov's version in "The Last Question" myself.

 

[challupa]

Storm once asked us atheists to envision a concept of God.

I responded about how possibly the creation of the universe was a central conscience that "exploded" (poor euphemism) itself into disparate parts, the universe, and the whole purpose of the universe was for this central conscience to experience itself. The end result would be the whole of the universe coalescing itself back to a singularity. To possibly repeat the process.

I think Scott Adams put forth this same type of concept. I prefer Isaac Asimov's version in "The Last Question" myself.

So each individualization (us) of the central conscience would be god experiencing itself?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Judgement,

Satan is one of the choices you need to make as you go about your daily life. The good and bad choices you must decide upon. __________________

If Satan is a choice then god too is; as without satan, god is not.
Love & rgds

 

[linwood]

I believe.... God is bigger than most religions realize & there is only one true God. God is every Atom & Molecule & Quark, God is your PC and the desk it sits on, God is Me & You, God is all of our thoughts, God is every Heaven & Hell... every religion, God is the Trees & Rocks & Oceans, God is the Earth & Solar System, God is the Galaxy & Universe - every Universe and every dream, God is - All That Is. Debate anyone?

Nope, no debate.
I kinda like the concept as it makes god quite irrelevant.

 

[gnomon]

So each individualization (us) of the central conscience would be god experiencing itself?

In a way.

Imagine a central conscience. There is nothing itself. This conscience grows lonely as is there is obviously nothing else in existence. So this conscience splits itself into a multitude of forms. This results in the universe as the human psyche knows it. This theory is based upon the concept that the universe retreats in upon itself resulting in an ultimate singularity that may once again explode itself into a different universe for an entirely different experience.

Asimov's version, which I highly recommend reading, is completely different. It's based upon the ultimate expansion of the known universe into which all matter is reduced to energy spread over such vast distances that stars...even dust...do not exist in material form. Heat death. However, the intelligent species, human, has evolved and developed until the point that it maintains existence through sheer consciousness and the use of computation. It's hard to explain. Just read the short story which is probably available online.

The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov

The consciusness of the human mind, or sapient mind, uses all known energy sources as a sink for knowledge. It's an interesting short story and probably one of Asimov's best.

Unfortunatley, neither my little mind game or Asimov's account for the theory of multiverses.

 

[challupa]

In a way.

Imagine a central conscience. There is nothing itself. This conscience grows lonely as is there is obviously nothing else in existence. So this conscience splits itself into a multitude of forms. This results in the universe as the human psyche knows it. This theory is based upon the concept that the universe retreats in upon itself resulting in an ultimate singularity that may once again explode itself into a different universe for an entirely different experience.

Asimov's version, which I highly recommend reading, is completely different. It's based upon the ultimate expansion of the known universe into which all matter is reduced to energy spread over such vast distances that stars...even dust...do not exist in material form. Heat death. However, the intelligent species, human, has evolved and developed until the point that it maintains existence through sheer consciousness and the use of computation. It's hard to explain. Just read the short story which is probably available online.

The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov

The consciusness of the human mind, or sapient mind, uses all known energy sources as a sink for knowledge. It's an interesting short story and probably one of Asimov's best.

Unfortunatley, neither my little mind game or Asimov's account for the theory of multiverses.

Okay I will read it. When you describe this consciousness and how we evolved enough to be able to create it gives me a visual of me as an individualization of the central conscious, consciously holding together energy/matter that is my physical self so I can experience the physical world. Definitely thought provoking!

 

[Comicaze247]

I believe.... God is bigger than most religions realize & there is only one true God. God is every Atom & Molecule & Quark, God is your PC and the desk it sits on, God is Me & You, God is all of our thoughts, God is every Heaven & Hell... every religion, God is the Trees & Rocks & Oceans, God is the Earth & Solar System, God is the Galaxy & Universe - every Universe and every dream, God is - All That Is. Debate anyone?

To simplify, I just call it the Divine, but I agree with you completely

I believe everything, from rocks and the trees, to humans and animals, planets and stars, and even to spirits and gods, all stems from the Divine. They are all manifestations of it, all part of it.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Maybe God's the concept and we are in the physical realm bringing that concept into a place of experience?

Well, that's certainly a neo-platonist possibility, but it does not fit with the panthesism proposed by the OP.

 

[methylatedghosts]

This Illusion is for us - to experience. You are choosing right now. If everything is happening 'right now' there is no real past and future.

It doesn't feel like you're really answering the question.

I mean... you say we are a part of god. And that god is perfect.

Why the need for the illusion, if we, as a part of god, are perfect?

Does God need the illusion? If so, why?

 

[Runewolf1973]

I believe.... God is bigger than most religions realize & there is only one true God. God is every Atom & Molecule & Quark, God is your PC and the desk it sits on, God is Me & You, God is all of our thoughts, God is every Heaven & Hell... every religion, God is the Trees & Rocks & Oceans, God is the Earth & Solar System, God is the Galaxy & Universe - every Universe and every dream, God is - All That Is. Debate anyone?

Most profound! What is there to debate? I call it Existence.

 

[S-word]

__________________

To be more clear - I am not speaking of the Islamic, Christian or Judaic God when I discuss ‘GOD’
The God I speak of is the culmination of the imagination of the human race, of the flowers in the garden, of the stars in the sky. The God I speak of is All That Is - there is nothing outside.

And the God you speak of sends his blessing on the righteous and the wicked alike.

 

[Judgment]

Bishadi: Can the 'you' by choice continue to communicate when sleeping? Such can you call me tonight during sleep?

Even so the 'i' having choice to interact is when consciously awake.

Yes - in the dream world our counciousness is free to roam. Since we are all connected communication between different parties is possible - I have not been able to acheive it - at least knowingly.

Bishadi: Knowledge is learned, experiences are felt, understanding is when the 2 combine.

There is an inner knowledge and understanding that we all share. I am only saying to not hold the words of others above your own inner knowledge and understanding.Such as... Be wary of anyone that tells you their way is the only way and that you will be brutally punished for veering from the path.

Bishadi: any can understand 'be wary'
dogma is often of some basis: perhaps some is of prophecy (a sight experienced, often conveyed in metaphor because the words did not exist to understand what was seen)
such as the experience to/with existence is usually always true. (monsters of dreams are often created)......... But truth only works ONE way. Same with existence. Such that nature has no 2 systems for life to exist. The diversity is the knowledge that has been learned/created. (word are mans creation... note...languages)

The 'Truth' is a combination of 'Everything'.

Bishadi: are you in contact with this?

I understand this.

Bishadi: so then of perfection to the sciences, the last 'word' is the name to know (the math that provides the foundation for all sciences to combine)
what would be the pinnacle, if there was a single spark to reveal equally to mankind?

Above my intelligence : )

 

[Judgment]

Beaudreaux: If you are unable to explain away the contradictions, how do you know they are not there? For instance, you say that "we have chosen to experience our lives as a series of moments". Choice
Is a timebound term
Necessitates change
And even if the things we experience are all in the "now", our experience of them is time bound.

There are no contradictions to explain away. We have chosen to experience Time. It it difficult for the brain to deduce 'Now' - it is difficult to think outside of time.