How to stop all thoughts for good.

[George-ananda]

Well, there are many kind of atheists (many are spiritual kind of atheists). I for one, consider 'self-realization' very important, and see meditation as the path to it (if one does not think intensely and in a focused way, how will one get it?) . (BTW, I already have achieved 'self realization')

An atheists version of self-realization is different than my version of Self-Realization. In the atheist's version it is all a certain type of activity in the brain. In my Advaita view it is experiencing Sat-Chit-Ananda above the maya/illusion of 'I' and brains.

 

[DreadFish]

An atheists version of self-realization is different than my version of Self-Realization. In the atheist's version it is all a certain type of activity in the brain. In my Advaita view it is experiencing Sat-Chit-Ananda above the maya/illusion of 'I' and brains.

I think you may be equating atheism with pure materialism, which is not always the case.

I dont see how your case of self-realization is something that an atheist would necessarily disagree with.

 

[George-ananda]

I think you may be equating atheism with pure materialism, which is not always the case.

I know the person I was responding to is a pure materialist from past discussions.

I dont see how your case of self-realization is something that an atheist would necessarily disagree with.

Almost all the atheists I've encountered here believe consciousness is a production of the physical brain. My concept of Self-Realization, experiencing cosmic consciousness beyond the brain, is something impossible in their worldview.

 

[Denny Crane!]

Well, there are many kind of atheists (many are spiritual kind of atheists). I for one, consider 'self-realization' very important, and see meditation as the path to it (if one does not think intensely and in a focused way, how will one get it?) . (BTW, I already have achieved 'self realization')

I agree atheism is lack of belief in one particular idea, it has no positive connotations or attachments to any other ideas. Atheists are not a homogeneous group.

 

[Ravi500]

To realize THAT which is REAL directly , and not just indirectly think of or about that which is real.

Well stated.

Note that this state is realized not by thought but by cessation of thought.


Only when thought ends is there truth. -- J.Krishnamurti

 

[DreadFish]

I know the person I was responding to is a pure materialist from past discussions.

I thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure.

 

[YmirGF]

Almost all the atheists I've encountered here believe consciousness is a production of the physical brain. My concept of Self-Realization, experiencing cosmic consciousness beyond the brain, is something impossible in their worldview.

Well I am one atheist who does not subscribe to that school of thought. I just don't have a use for the "god" concepts that so many find comforting. After a certain stage, "god" becomes meaningless.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Well I am one atheist who does not subscribe to that school of thought. I just don't have a use for the "god" concepts that so many find comforting. After a certain stage, "god" becomes meaningless.

Many people don't have a use for the "atheist" concepts that so many find comforting. After a certain stage, "atheist" becomes meaningless.

Point is YmirGF, so long as people have not realized that ALL concepts are mere mental constructs that act as symbols to represent some reality, then they remain lost in the maya mind and will continue to find their conceptual reality comforting.

No harm done, the veil will lift when enlightenment is realized...

 

[George-ananda]

Many people don't have a use for the "atheist" concepts that so many find comforting. After a certain stage, "atheist" becomes meaningless.

Point is YmirGF, so long as people have not realized that ALL concepts are mere mental constructs that act as symbols to represent some reality, then they remain lost in the maya mind and will continue to find their conceptual reality comforting.

No harm done, the veil will lift when enlightenment is realized...

I like this comment. After a certain level of understanding is reached it all starts converging although we can become attached to labels.

 

[Straw Dog]

Good advice, but it doesn't seem like permanently stopping all thoughts is a worthy goal if that's what the OP is suggesting. Thinking is natural and can be useful. Problems arise because we confuse our particular conceptualizations of reality with undifferentiated awareness. Practices like the ones suggested help to cultivate discernment to such a point that these concepts no longer create artificial obstacles that don't actually exist when abiding in awareness. We become free to create more useful perspectives within a dynamic environment. However, I don't see perspectives as ever becoming more Real. They are only relative to a real context. They can be more useful, beautiful, social, etc. but not actually more Real.

 

[Straw Dog]

Hello ben,

...so long as people have not realized that ALL concepts are mere mental constructs that act as symbols to represent some reality, then they remain lost in the maya mind and will continue to find their conceptual reality comforting.

Do you find comfort in your conceptualization of reality as "Being"?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I dont see how your case of self-realization is something that an atheist would necessarily disagree with.

It differs, because at the end of it the theists add a Super Soul or God (Abrahamics do not talk about multiple Gods or Goddesses).

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hello ben,



Do you find comfort in your conceptualization of reality as "Being"?

No comfort nor discomfort...try to understand that it's just a label...

 

[Straw Dog]

No comfort nor discomfort...try to understand that it's just a label...

Fair enough. It is merely a label.

Is it still necessary to conceptualize after enlightenment?

Personal understanding is that problems only arise because we fail to discern between our concepts and unadulterated awareness. Once we no longer create artificial obstacles via conceptualization then we can enter a state of free play with language and thoughts.

 

[YmirGF]

Fair enough. It is merely a label.

Then again, what isn't?

Is it still necessary to conceptualize after enlightenment?

While I don't particularly believe in "enlightenment" anymore, there are many aspects of experience that can be rather enlightening. My take on this is that conceptualization is much like condensation. It happens, just let it flow.

Personal understanding is that problems only arise because we fail to discern between our concepts and unadulterated awareness.

One does have to remain vigilant about it. One must try to understand that ALL they see/perceive is a construct of some kind. Once that is clearly understood the constructs can mature considerably. [Edit: Those constructs mark your apprehension of reality at any given point, regardless of how you view reality.]

Once we no longer create artificial obstacles via conceptualization then we can enter a state of free play with language and thoughts.

Which could lend itself to gibberish if allowed too much play. Be mindful about how things are, what things are and try not to fixate on how you think things SHOULD be.

 

[Straw Dog]

While I don't particularly believe in "enlightenment" anymore, there are many aspects of experience that can be rather enlightening. My take on this is that conceptualization is much like condensation. It happens, just let it flow.

Yeah, I'm starting to get away from too much talk about "enlightenment" as well. I tend to be referring to the more mundane enlightening aspects of experience that you mention and agree that conceptualization is natural. We work best when working with our nature. Also, I have a valid sense of self and it is what it is.

One does have to remain vigilant about it. One must try to understand that ALL they see/perceive is a construct of some kind. Once that is clearly understood the constructs can mature considerably. [Edit: Those constructs mark your apprehension of reality at any given point, regardless of how you view reality.]

Which could lend itself to gibberish if allowed too much play. Be mindful about how things are, what things are and try not to fixate on how you think things SHOULD be.

Good advice. Mindfulness is always primary. I didn't mean we could just make up whatever, willie-nillie. The free play involves creating constructs that are appropriate to the changing and situational environment. The free part just refers to the liberation from grasping tightly to dogmatic constructs.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Once we no longer create artificial obstacles via conceptualization then we can enter a state of free play with language and thoughts.

Even after enlightenment, you need conceptualize. Without conceptualization, mind/brain cannot make a fig out of it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Straw Dog,

Is it still necessary to conceptualize after enlightenment?

Personal understanding is that since enlightenment is transcending time/space or the mind that perceives time/space; conceptualization does not happen as everything is in one time/space zone. Conceptualization is for an understanding which enlightened people have already reached and so they are in that space which is akin to no-mind.

However to explain things to those who are yet to transcend the language used by enlightened ones can be conceptualised by such minds trying to follow.

Love & rgds

 

[Ravi500]

Fair enough. It is merely a label.

Is it still necessary to conceptualize after enlightenment?

Personal understanding is that problems only arise because we fail to discern between our concepts and unadulterated awareness. Once we no longer create artificial obstacles via conceptualization then we can enter a state of free play with language and thoughts.

I had explained this earlier in the Buddhism forum and would like to repeat it again.

There is nothing wrong with the mind, as long as it is an obedient servant , responsive at will.

Issue arises, when the mind dominates you to the point of incessant compulsive thinking, making you lose presence and focus on the present moment. This generates unhappiness and pain, which are the results of an unnatural state.

Perhaps these sayings of Zen Master Alan Watts and the enlightened sage Eckhart Tolle will help to bring perspective on this ...


A person who thinks all the time has nothing to think about except thoughts. So he loses touch with reality, and lives in a world of illusion. - Alan Watts


Love, joy, and peace cannot flourish until you have freed yourself from mind dominance. - Eckhart Tolle

Regards,

Ravi

 

[chinu]

Stopping thoughts seems to be hard, but it only seems to be like that. We just havent found the correct way to do it yet. Here is one way, that if really tried, will dissove the mind for good.

begin to look inward. dont try to stop any thoughts, just let them be. Now, just watch them, let them flow and have no identification with them. Do not be the thinker. Now, observe that which is observing. This is self-awareness. Be conscious of your consciousness. When this happens the, I am this, i am that, will dissapear leaving you will a feeling I AM. When consciousness is turned outward there is no feeling I AM so a false one is made. That is the ego. Because there is a false self we know that there must be a real self. Be aware of your awareness and the real self will emerge. I dont care what problems you have had with no-thoughts in the past, this will eliminate all trouble and leave you empty. THIS DOES WORK! just try it and use it for a week, the advancement will be amazing!

After all, who is going to get all this Advancement ? Mind! ?
ha ha ha ha ha