I am a good man, so why don't I have a girlfriend? Do I need to be a jerk instead?

[Chisti]

Irl, I am extremely gentle to the point of not reacting even to physical threats. Women hate this, which is why they often treat me like you-know-what even though I am physically very attractive. I know people will say, be brave and grow a spine. I say: each person is born with a certain nature, which cannot be changed.

 

[Alceste]

Irl, I am extremely gentle to the point of not reacting even to physical threats. Women hate this, which is why they often treat me like you-know-what even though I am physically very attractive. I know people will say, be brave and grow a spine. I say: each person is born with a certain nature, which cannot be changed.

Maybe what "women" hate is being lumped all together like this.

None of my smokin' hot heterosexual female friends are drawn to tough guys, FYI. It's a mistake to assume we can objectively deduce the reason for the presence or absence of interest from the opposite sex. It's too tempting to assume that our best qualities are also our least attractive.

 

[jasonwill2]

i think girls who are passionate and think for themselves are hawt.

more so than big boobs

seee? attraction is subjective you need to know htat not all girls are same just as not all guys are the same!

gah so tired!

 

[Chisti]

Maybe what "women" hate is being lumped all together like this.

None of my smokin' hot heterosexual female friends are drawn to tough guys, FYI. It's a mistake to assume we can objectively deduce the reason for the presence or absence of interest from the opposite sex. It's too tempting to assume that our best qualities are also our least attractive.

Not saying they're all attracted to tough guys. But they mistake nonviolence for cowardice, and hence avoid nonviolent people.

 

[Koldo]

Two things i would like to comment on:

-Avoid advice from people who aren't in long term relationships. If a person goes, "women want this, women want that, women just want big muscles and money" then check to see if they've actually been in a long relationship before listening to them. Better yet, just be yourself, and if yourself isn't content and well-liked by other people that you respect, then work on that.

People in long term relationships can give excellent advices on how to deal with relationships as they have probably gone into several similar situations and know how to handle them. However, these people may or may not know anything useful about dates. If he wants tips on how to get a date then he should just look for the closest 'Gotta catch'em all!' ( ) guy. Then ignore anything he has to say after you are into a relationship for a month or longer.

-Most people want to be in relationships with compassionate people. Not abusive people. But compassionate and nice doesn't mean weak. If a person lacks other qualities, "nice" shouldn't be a fallback. "Nice" doesn't replace other virtues. "Nice" shouldn't be an act. Be intelligent, resourceful, in good shape for what you have to work with, kind, generous, knowledgeable, socially interesting, and whatever your personality is.

The bolded part is very very interesting. It is correct, but it is just like saying: ''Want to score a date? Become like Tom Cruise.".

 

[Koldo]

Meditation has measurable affects that may enhance your sex appeal, depending on who you are attempting to appeal to, just as a physically strenuous hobby creates changes in your physiology that may enhance your sex appeal.

Meditation has measurable effects that may enhance your sex appeal?! Can you provide any respectable source for that claim? I may consider to start meditating if you do so.

 

[Koldo]

It isn't that hard to understand, is it?

Different strokes for different folks. There is no game, or role you play, or scripts you learn. People have said it before..."be yourself."

And that is the same as saying 'Keep trying'.

 

[Penumbra]

Two things i would like to comment on:

People in long term relationships can give excellent advices on how to deal with relationships as they have probably gone into several similar situations and know how to handle them. However, these people may or may not know anything useful about dates. If he wants tips on how to get a date then he should just look for the closest 'Gotta catch'em all!' ( ) guy. Then ignore anything he has to say after you are into a relationship for a month or longer.

Unless that dating guy's advice works on mainly certain types of people that don't align with long term relationships.

Edit: Basically what I'm saying with that, "don't listen to people who aren't in long term relationships" line is that if makes sense to actually check what one's background is. If people complain about women just wanting certain things, or claim certain attributes about women, it's quite possible that this person has not had a successful long term relationship. People who have been in failed relationships may have something to teach about their experience, people who are currently in or have been in long term relationships may have something to teach, or even people who aren't in long term relationship yet, but have a good outlook on things, may have something to teach. But people who generalize, say that all women want X, or all women are like X, especially on the internet- I wouldn't take that advice very far.

(Also if one is interested primarily in shorter interactions rather than long term relationships, then listening to people in long term relationships may not be helpful.)

The bolded part is very very interesting. It is correct, but it is just like saying: ''Want to score a date? Become like Tom Cruise.".

I don't think so.

But it means, if one's key descriptor of themselves is that they are nice, then perhaps they have to build other characteristics as well.

People are different and want different things in a person for a relationship. That's why being one's self is important. But one can make do with what one has; stay in good shape, have hobbies, develop or maintain good traits, etc. It doesn't mean be awesome at everything, like some idealized Tom Cruise movie character.

 

[painted wolf]

This thread is mainly directed towards the women on this site but guys can jump in if they have an insight.

I'm a decent chap, not perfect, but I am a kind and loving person. From what I understand I am what women say they want, a nice, kind, loving person and yet every time I ask a girl out I get a no, and the one time I did ask a girl out and she said yes after the first date she left me for some guy in her salsa dance class.

You poor thing... maybe she just wasn't that into you.

More importantly a single date is not a commitment to a long term relationship. Why shouldn't she date another guy too? She can't "leave you" because she was never yours.

You don't own her and she doesn't owe you her undying commitment. :slap:

It has been suggested that I need to get to know these girls first before I ask them out so that they know for sure I am a good guy and feel safe with me. Yet for the past school year I developed friendships with a number of different girls and they all said no when I ask them out, except for the one girl I mentioned above her who kissed me on our one date, told me she had a wonderful time and then dumps me over the phone for the salsa dance guy.

And how are you defining "friendship" here?

Have you considered that women don't appreciate guys who only become their friends so they can use it as an excuse to try to get in their pants.
You've known these girls for a year... and you are already asking them all to please please date you.

Not to mention you're already expecting that dating leads to sexy time. :sarcastic

I'm wondering if you actually want a nice guy. Like I've heard a number of other guys say that in order to get a woman, you need to be a jerk to her.

Yeah, that's it.... it can't be anything you are doing wrong. It must be those awful girls fault for not liking "nice guys".

Whenever someone has said this to me before I've been rather skeptical. Yet after not just acting decent but actually being a nice guy (I'm nice and chivalrous by nature and I am a bit replused by the idea of being an *******) I have no mate, and am wondering if these guys are right.

Uh huh... have you considered the idea that maybe you aren't as "nice" as you think you are?
It's my experience that guys who claim to be "chivalrous" are condescending jerks who think they are being "nice" by treating women as "delicate flowers".
Or are socially awkward creepers that don't realize that they are sketching ladies out.

I feel as though I am being crushed under the weight of lonelyness and inadequacy.

Get a pet, hang out with some friends and don't expect women to cater to your emotional and sexual frustrations.

It may sound ridiculous but I feel like grabbing collective womankind by the shoulders, shaking her and screaming "Here I am! I am a good and chivalous knight as you asked for! Then why am I alone?"

If that is how you feel... then you aren't a "good and chivalrous knight".
Sounds like you're expecting women to follow some sort of script where you get to be the hero and "get the girl".

Women don't owe you access to their time or bodies. Being "friends" doesn't mean you get to date them and a "date" doesn't mean they are going steady with you.

Do I need to be an ******* towards women? Do I need to sell my soul to have a companion?

No, you just need to learn how to think of and treat women a human beings instead of objects to win and realize they don't owe you anything and if they aren't into you it's not because something is wrong with them.

Relationships aren't easy and they don't happen over night.

wa:do

 

[Penumbra]

Not saying they're all attracted to tough guys. But they mistake nonviolence for cowardice, and hence avoid nonviolent people.

Who is "they"?
-Some women you've personally met?
-All women you've personally met?
-Women in general?
-People in general?

Also, one simply might not agree with nonviolence. A person could understand the difference between cowardice and nonviolence, and assess them differently, and find complete nonviolence to be a worldview they disagree with.

 

[Chisti]

Who is "they"?
-Some women you've personally met?
-All women you've personally met?
-Women in general?
-People in general?

Also, one simply might not agree with nonviolence. A person could understand the difference between cowardice and nonviolence, and assess them differently, and find complete nonviolence to be a worldview they disagree with.

I believe in absolute nonviolence. Women - and I've moved with many, from very different backgrounds, cultures etc., so it is safe to generalize in this instance - don't find that sexy. They find aggressive people sexy, just that they won't call it aggression - they'll call it confidence, strength, self-respect, and so on. Pretty clever, eh?

 

[Penumbra]

I believe in absolute nonviolence. Women - and I've moved with many, from very different backgrounds, cultures etc., so it is safe to generalize in this instance - don't find that sexy. They find aggressive people sexy, just that they won't call it violence - they'll call it confidence, strength, self-respect, and so on. Pretty clever, eh?

I find neither absolute nonviolence, nor aggressiveness, to be sexy. :sarcastic

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yeah, that's nice.

Now quit jabbering and get me a beer.

(watch what happens now, Ruadri Canmore)

I will after you bring home a decent paycheck for once.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

And that is the same as saying 'Keep trying'.

No.

It's saying STOP trying. And be happy as an independent and autonomous person.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I believe in absolute nonviolence. Women - and I've moved with many, from very different backgrounds, cultures etc., so it is safe to generalize in this instance - don't find that sexy. They find aggressive people sexy, just that they won't call it aggression - they'll call it confidence, strength, self-respect, and so on. Pretty clever, eh?

Have you listened to any of the women in this thread? We keep telling you the opposite.

My husband, again, was the shy and awkward type who rarely would say anything aggressive. He still is the introvert in our marriage until you get to know him, though he still prefers sitting quietly out back with his guitar.

It was because he was so laid back, unpretentious, and non-confrontational that made me able to relax, be myself, and luxuriate in the time and space together.

 

[Kathryn]

I believe in absolute nonviolence. Women - and I've moved with many, from very different backgrounds, cultures etc., so it is safe to generalize in this instance - don't find that sexy. They find aggressive people sexy, just that they won't call it aggression - they'll call it confidence, strength, self-respect, and so on. Pretty clever, eh?

Intelligent women (and there are plenty of us out there) know the difference between aggression and confidence, strength and self respect.

Intelligent men (and there are plenty of them out there too) know how to find that very appealing balance between aggression and confidence.

That's the sweet spot. Yum.

 

[Penumbra]

Any person who is physically aggressive towards other people, or who tries to hurt other people emotionally, or tries to assert power over people- I view as lacking something. It could be a lack of true confidence, or it could be a lack of empathy and social awareness, etc.

A confident person doesn't need to hurt other people, and has a sense of abundance that they can share with other people to build them up, help them, etc. Rather than hurt or tear down or assert power. People that are quiet may be inwardly confident and interesting as well, and can open up when one gets to know them.

 

[Koldo]

Unless that dating guy's advice works on mainly certain types of people that don't align with long term relationships.

Edit: Basically what I'm saying with that, "don't listen to people who aren't in long term relationships" line is that if makes sense to actually check what one's background is. If people complain about women just wanting certain things, or claim certain attributes about women, it's quite possible that this person has not had a successful long term relationship. People who have been in failed relationships may have something to teach about their experience, people who are currently in or have been in long term relationships may have something to teach, or even people who aren't in long term relationship yet, but have a good outlook on things, may have something to teach. But people who generalize, say that all women want X, or all women are like X, especially on the internet- I wouldn't take that advice very far.

(Also if one is interested primarily in shorter interactions rather than long term relationships, then listening to people in long term relationships may not be helpful.)

If one has issues with his/her relationship then looking for tips from someone who has been into one for quite a lot of time is reasonable. If one has issues with getting into a relationship then looking for tips from someone who has been able to get into many is reasonable. Getting into and maintaining relationships are different subjects, related but different. Advice from anyone that doesn't have a lot of experience into the subject is to be taken with quite a huge grain of salt.

I don't think so.

But it means, if one's key descriptor of themselves is that they are nice, then perhaps they have to build other characteristics as well.

People are different and want different things in a person for a relationship. That's why being one's self is important. But one can make do with what one has; stay in good shape, have hobbies, develop or maintain good traits, etc. It doesn't mean be awesome at everything, like some idealized Tom Cruise movie character.

That's very reasonable and seems a lot better than what you said before.

 

[Koldo]

You've known these girls for a year... and you are already asking them all to please please date you.

How longer should he wait?

 

[Koldo]

Intelligent women (and there are plenty of us out there) know the difference between aggression and confidence, strength and self respect.

Intelligent men (and there are plenty of them out there too) know how to find that very appealing balance between aggression and confidence.

That's the sweet spot. Yum.

That's a rather interesting way to use the word 'intelligent'.