"I . . . CREATE EVIL" But why?

[strikeviperMKII]

Adam like Eve was created as a free moral agent to choose.
With the gift of free will then God does not interfere or decide our choices.

Still doesn't refute my point. God knew the second they disobeyed, yet he didn't send them away.

They were told the 'day' you eat you will die.
That 'day' was not a 24hr day but a 'thousand-year day'.
In other words, no sinner could live past a thousand years.
The oldest person in the Bible died before reaching a thousand.

This doesn't explain why God sent them from Eden after they disobeyed, not the second they did.

We can see by Jesus being perfect that when perfection and imperfection go hand in hand that perfection wins out. So if Adam would have remained obedient and retained his perfection Eve still might have been the mother of all, so to speak. Eve would have died within that thousand-year day but Adam would have continued living. Since the Bible is silent in detail the possibility exists that Adam could have been given a perfect replacement for Eve.

You are committing Adam's sin right here. Blame Eve. Blame something else. Both Adam and Eve committed the same sin, but it was not disobedience. If it were, God would have sent them from Eden the second they committed the disobedience. But he didn't, so disobedience is not the sin.

Remember God's purpose for A&E was to multiply and fill [not overpopulate] the earth. If God would have gotten rid of them right away we would not be here. Because of Jesus, all the damage Adam caused will be reversed during Jesus millennial reign over earth when Jesus 'as Prince of Peace' ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill starting at the time of Matthew 25vs31,32.

Whimsical, poetic nonsense. It means nothing but what it says. If this is true, there is no need to proclaim it. What you've said here is wishful thinking, and baseless at that. When you experience this thing we call God, you will have no need to proclaim such grand delusions. It will already have happened for you.

 

[JustWondering]

Personally, I'm blaming God (if He existed, anyway) for the fact that the world has finite resources, and thus poverty/greed/theft/starvation exists. Adam and Eve couldn't have caused that.

Its no use trying to use common sense/reason with theists. I've already tried it, doesn't work.

 

[JustWondering]

Honestly, how would this be God's fault? I'm not saying it's Adam's and Eve's, by the way. I'm just trying to figure our how poverty, greed, theft and starvation can be attributed to God.

Let's say I created a race of humanoid robots with the tendency to be arrogant, violent, and cruel. When these robots act arrogant, violent, and cruel it obviously wouldn't be my fault. The robots are defective. Their behavior is all their fault. That makes total sense right?

 

[JustWondering]

During Jesus 1000-year reign over earth greed will be gone.
The root cause of greed or greedy people will be gone.
-Psalm 92v7; 37v38; Proverbs 2vs21,22; Rev 11v18 B
Jesus will have dominion from sea to sea to the ends of the earth.
-Psalm 72v8
Micah [4v4] foretold each person will have their own vine and fig tree.....
Isaiah [65v21,22] foretold each having a house and food.
Even the dessert will blossom as the rose does.
-Isa 35v1,2

Thats absurd. If anyone is going to turn the earth into a magical paradise its L Ron Hubbard. Also, Hubbard's reign will last much longer then a measly thousand years. Where do you guys get these silly ideas from?

 

[JustWondering]

Since god kills kids in agonizing ways through starvation and cancer (sure there are a lot of other creative ways god tortures kids to death) I have to consider him evil. Whenever god does something good it always seems to be for a self-serving reason (rewards for doing his bidding).

 

[JustAsking]

Irrelevant. It happened. Saying it is part of a master plan, or not part of a master plan is of no consequence.

It most certainly is _not_ irrelevant and that's my entire point.

We're questioning why "evil" even exists. God supposedly created man by first creating Adam and Eve. Supposedly God has a Master Plan (of which is thrown in my face during any debate, that's the "I win" card by seemingly any theist) and right from the get go, apparently humans made an "oopsie" by sinning, immediately.

If God has a plan, it most certainly _has_ to include us sinning, all the time. I mean, again, we did it from the get go.. Wasted no time in doing it.

God created man.
God created man to sin.
God created man to do evil (an extension of sin).
God created evil.
God is benevolent?

 

[jumpingjoy]

God was bored when he 'created' us. If we were all good what is exciting about that? He has the 'pleasure' of watching us suffer and gets his kicks that way!

 

[PolyHedral]

Honestly, how would this be God's fault? I'm not saying it's Adam's and Eve's, by the way. I'm just trying to figure our how poverty, greed, theft and starvation can be attributed to God.

God created the world with finite resources, with the full knowledge of the consequences. Thus, he deliberately allowed poverty, greed, theft, etc. If He actually wanted to eliminate them, it takes very little to do so.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

It most certainly is _not_ irrelevant and that's my entire point.

We're questioning why "evil" even exists. God supposedly created man by first creating Adam and Eve. Supposedly God has a Master Plan (of which is thrown in my face during any debate, that's the "I win" card by seemingly any theist) and right from the get go, apparently humans made an "oopsie" by sinning, immediately.

What is the 'sin'?

If God has a plan, it most certainly _has_ to include us sinning, all the time. I mean, again, we did it from the get go.. Wasted no time in doing it.

I have no doubt God knew we would be imperfect. You give a person everything they need to survive; food, water, shelter, give them a perfect utopia, and still they won't be alive. That is the entire point of the creation story.

God created man.
God created man to sin.
God created man to do evil (an extension of sin).
God created evil.
God is benevolent?

Good job Adam. Blame Eve for convincing you to eat the apple. :clap

 

[JustWondering]

I have no doubt God knew we would be imperfect.

Exactly, god created us to suffer and die, because he's evil.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Exactly, god created us to suffer and die, because he's evil.

That is is true if, and only if, we can only suffer and die. I know this not to be the case, and so do you. Otherwise you wouldn't be happy getting a birthday present, or eating your favorite food. God gave us both.
So is it really his fault that we chose the suffering?

 

[PolyHedral]

Yes. It has been stated time and time again in this thread that suffering is not exclusively caused by us. The suffering that isn't is therefore God's fault.

 

[Pegg]

Exactly, god created us to suffer and die, because he's evil.

no one can BE evil

they can only DO evil

 

[Pegg]

Yes. It has been stated time and time again in this thread that suffering is not exclusively caused by us. The suffering that isn't is therefore God's fault.

for those people who do not believe that God exists, who's fault is it then?

 

[PolyHedral]

Nobody's. Without God, it doesn't have to be anybody's fault.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Yes. It has been stated time and time again in this thread that suffering is not exclusively caused by us. The suffering that isn't is therefore God's fault.

If you invest yourself emotionally into anything, suffering will happen, should something 'bad' happen. In fact, that is the ONLY way suffering can happen. Most of the time, we do this subconsciously. Sometimes, it's very obvious, though, and it looks very much like our fault. Others, it's not so obvious, but it is still our fault.

 

[PolyHedral]

Someone with motor neurone disease shouldn't invest themselves emotionally in... what?

 

[Katzpur]

Nobody's. Without God, it doesn't have to be anybody's fault.

So why, if God exists, does it have to be His fault? If bad things can happen if God doesn't exist, why can't bad things happen if He does? Why does there have to be blame either way? So suffering that isn't our fault is God's fault (provided He exists), but it's nobody's fault if He doesn't exist. And you really see this as a rational explanation?

 

[Pegg]

Nobody's. Without God, it doesn't have to be anybody's fault.

then its hilarious to see that its mostly the non believers who blame God for evil lol

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Someone with motor neurone disease shouldn't invest themselves emotionally in... what?

Case by case. Some people invest themselves in gambling, others fishing, still others watching TV. Some invest themselves in finding a complete cure for their disease. Some want to find cures for other people's diseases. Some want to end hunger in third world countries. Or to end AIDS, or war, or poverty, or even death itself.

The point is not to not invest yourself in something, emotionally or otherwise. It's that when you do, you have to be ready to go through the rough waters that follow such an investment. Sometimes it's very rough. We can still chose life, even in the midst of that turmoil. How...well, that's something everyone has to figure out for themselves.
Unless you're saying that emotional investment caused such and such a disease, or for people to go hungry or get AIDS or whatever. If you're saying that, you're being ridiculous. That is life and would happen whether we invested or not.