If God exists why is he hiding?

[Willamena]

Yet he can be seen?
And his being seen is completely indescribable?

If it is completely indescribable, has it really been seen?

Yes, emptiness can clearly be seen.

 

[outhouse]

As far as you can see -- which is, of course, the only viable perspective available to the human race.

Doesn't mean God's not there...

Doesnt mean god there either


As far as science see's,, creation is a outlawed myth kept from poisoning our childrens minds

 

[outhouse]

Yes, emptiness can clearly be seen.

good grief.

 

[Blackdog22]

John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, "he has a demon." The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they said, "look! A drunkard!"

Wouldn't make any difference. At all. some of you would doubt the credibility, or cast a shadow on the opinion, or be disappointed that "he didn't look right." Because you're all waaaaay more interested in naysaying than you really are in finding out the truth.

Not our fault Jesus' dad said that getting drunk was bad and then his own son came and made alcohol. Also not our fault that Jesus decided to show up in a time period where the old testament was still adhered to, which his Dad so happened to make. His Dad demanded people be murdered for working on the Sabbath, so its pretty understandable why people were pointing fingers and freaking out all over the place. It is because his Dad was a psycho who made psychotic rules and allowed those rules to persist for far too long.

If Jesus came down today and made water into wine, he would be widely accepted no different than Criss Angel or any other magician. If he pulled off tricks that no one could explain he would be a hit and most likely would be on every other episode of "Extra".

Jesus was simply thrown into the chaos, intolerance, and hate that his Dad had fashioned and that was part of his downfall.

disclaimer: This is all written from a hypothetical standpoint and in no ways means that I think God, Jesus or Santa is real.

 

[Blackdog22]

Are you familiar with the description of "God" as ineffable, nameless, formless, void, etc?

Yes, which is why I am interested in knowing why anyone can claim that he isn't hiding. Since these are all attributes to a being that is beyond our senses, if God made our senses then he is indeed hiding as the OP suggested.

 

[sojourner]

If that is what you want to believe then go with it, but your wrong. I actually want to compare what he looks like to other testimonies that I have. You simply don't want to explain what he looks like because you have nothing at all. Your intentionally misleading the audience. Honestly, I am just asking for a description... Why is that so hard?

Let me put this to you in the simple words of a children's carol:
"Some children see him lily white -- the baby Jesus born this night...
Some children see him bronzed and brown -- the Lord of heaven to earth come down...
The children in each different place will see the baby Jesus' face like theirs, but full of heavenly grace..."
It doesn't matter what I see. What matters is what you see.

Also, your "answer" that God isn't hiding, when he clearly is, was a non answer.

How is it so "clear" that God is hiding, when I and millions of other people don't seem to think so? You should really go back and read the thread. I've provided more than one opinion for why I think it's us doing the hiding.

 

[sojourner]

you have faith

we dont need it because we see history for what it is.



there is only so much truth that can be found and historical jesus was a mortal man

Of course he was! To say otherwise would make me subject to one of the classic heresies. The Trinity states that Jesus is fully human. No shocker there.

Perhaps you would do well to develop a little faith, for it appears that you do, after all, need it.

 

[sojourner]

Yet he can be seen?
And his being seen is completely indescribable?

If it is completely indescribable, has it really been seen?

I guess the colloquialism, "Words fail me" means nothing to you? I've seen my wife, and I'm still completely undone vocally whenever she enters the room.

 

[PolyHedral]

Yes, emptiness can clearly be seen.

Emptiness can't be seen; it can only be inferred.

 

[sojourner]

Doesnt mean god there either

It does if we see God there...

 

[Koldo]

I suppose you've never stopped to consider that, for those of us here, "wishful thinking" isn't part of the equation?

The posts i replied to saying they are wishful thinking are , with as much certainty as possible, just wishful thinking.

But let us do the following: explain yourself when you say that you see God everywhere.

Yes, because a real counselor wouldn't be throwing their professional opinion around on the internet.

Another fallacy....
This is the No True Scotsman.

 

[Blackdog22]

How is it so "clear" that God is hiding, when I and millions of other people don't seem to think so? You should really go back and read the thread. I've provided more than one opinion for why I think it's us doing the hiding.

I will just say this before I go to work. I nor anyone I know has seen God. I have yet to encounter anyone who has seen God with the exception of a few. When asked what he looked like they usually appeal to a feeling or emotion, which is vastly different from seeing something. There has yet to be a description of God that even makes any sense at all from a visual standpoint.

Even if God was showing himself to people by "touching" them he is still hiding from plain view. I can hide underneath your bed and poke you. You can feel me poking you, but it doesn't change the fact that I am hiding from your view.

Also, your point about us hiding from God through bad acts (greed, etc) doesn't really make sense. If God is there and he can see us it doesn't matter how hard we "try" to hide from him we simply wouldn't be able too. If God is to judge us on account of our belief and actions in him he would have to have a very firm eye on the totality of every human that ever existed and every experience they ever had. If we are capable of hiding from his view point then I don't see how he could be considered God for one and I also don't see how he can judge anyone on any basis on account of him not being able to see everything.

 

[sojourner]

Not our fault Jesus' dad said that getting drunk was bad

What in the hell are you talking about?

Also not our fault that Jesus decided to show up in a time period where the old testament was still adhered to, which his Dad so happened to make.

And this has... what, exactly, to do with the topic of your unwillingness to see? You think Joseph wrote the OT? Or God? Either one is both untrue and a waste of bandwidth to write.

It is because his Dad was a psycho who made psychotic rules and allowed those rules to persist for far too long.

There's a new one: The Law being referred to as "psychotic." I didn't know the Law was unacquainted with reality.

If Jesus came down today and made water into wine, he would be widely accepted no different than Criss Angel or any other magician. If he pulled off tricks that no one could explain he would be a hit and most likely would be on every other episode of "Extra".

See? Proves my point. Nothing I can say will convince you, therefore, you lied when you said you were sincerely interested.

Jesus was simply thrown into the chaos, intolerance, and hate that his Dad had fashioned and that was part of his downfall.

One would do well to take a second look at what one is labeling as a "psychotic" POV...

Yes, which is why I am interested in knowing why anyone can claim that he isn't hiding. Since these are all attributes to a being that is beyond our senses, if God made our senses then he is indeed hiding as the OP suggested.

God is beyond our five outward senses, but not beyond our inward sense.

 

[Willamena]

Yes, which is why I am interested in knowing why anyone can claim that he isn't hiding. Since these are all attributes to a being that is beyond our senses, if God made our senses then he is indeed hiding as the OP suggested.

"God" isn't "hiding," because "God" is present meaningfully. "God" isn't "hiding," because "God" is meaningful everywhere, in everything, to "the open-hearted few."*

There's nothing inherently "beyond our senses" or "indescribable" about ineffability, or about "God." Words are all we have, our tools to describe, and we use them, and when we employ the non-literal we can use them quite well and cleverly to talk about things in the most indirect manner. Words convey images, and our processes of associating ideas with the images gets the job done.

The OP asks why the evidence for "God" isn't more intuitive (and then turns around and asks for very unintuitive evidence, but that's neither here nor there) --that's precisely what the evidence requires, intuition. In the same way we might intuit a friend's feelings or the circumstances of an event, the signs of "God's presence" are free for the taking; and just like intuiting a friend's feelings or the circumstances of an event, it requires nothing more than definition and practice.


*Quoting Leonard Cohen, The Guests

 

[Willamena]

Emptiness can't be seen; it can only be inferred.

Inference can be seen quite clearly, when "seeing" isn't taken (inferred) too literally.

 

[sojourner]

Another fallacy....
This is the No True Scotsman.

Well, you're not a counselor, are you? Hence the statement: "Armchair counselors..."
BTW: Perhaps you'd also like to "correct" Blackdog for his ad hominem now. Or are you really just picking on me?

The posts i replied to saying they are wishful thinking are , with as much certainty as possible, just wishful thinking.

In your estimation, which, as I've pointed out, isn't astute enough to be counted as anything other than one man's opinion.

But let us do the following: explain yourself when you say that you see God everywhere.

No. I choose not to make myself vulnerable to these participants.

 

[sojourner]

I nor anyone I know has seen God.

How sad for you.

I have yet to encounter anyone who has seen God with the exception of a few. When asked what he looked like they usually appeal to a feeling or emotion, which is vastly different from seeing something. There has yet to be a description of God that even makes any sense at all from a visual standpoint.

Look at it this way: I don't know how to describe "my wife." I can talk about her person and her appearance all day. But that describes only the individual named "Jane Smith." It doesn't in the least describe "my wife" in a visual way. Does that mean that "my wife" doesn't exist, or is only my "wishful thinking?" No.

Even if God was showing himself to people by "touching" them he is still hiding from plain view. I can hide underneath your bed and poke you. You can feel me poking you, but it doesn't change the fact that I am hiding from your view.

I see. So air is "hiding from us." And electricity. Because we can't physically see them.

Also, your point about us hiding from God through bad acts (greed, etc) doesn't really make sense.

yah, well, telling an alcoholic he's an alcoholic doesn't make sense to the alcoholic, either...

If God is there and he can see us it doesn't matter how hard we "try" to hide from him we simply wouldn't be able too.

Think of an ostrich with its head in the sand. the ostrich is engaging in the act of "hiding." Even though we can see it. But it can't see us, and believes that we're not there.

 

[Koldo]

Well, you're not a counselor, are you? Hence the statement: "Armchair counselors..."

Once again this argument?
I do not need to be a counselor to point out logical fallacies.

BTW: Perhaps you'd also like to "correct" Blackdog for his ad hominem now. Or are you really just picking on me?

I am not having a conversation with him for the moment...

In your estimation, which, as I've pointed out, isn't astute enough to be counted as anything other than one man's opinion.

Then do prove that it is not mere wishful thinking.
When something fits in a certain description, a given label is appropiate even if someone does not acknowledge it. This is what seems to be happening.

No. I choose not to make myself vulnerable to these participants.

And then when required to properly explain your position to prove there is something more than wishful thinking to your words you prefer to avoid the request.

This is certainly a remarkable position.:thud:

 

[sojourner]

I do not need to be a counselor to point out logical fallacies.

Apparently, you do, for this isn't a logical fallacy -- except when you label it "wishful thinking."

I am not having a conversation with him for the moment...

Justification is never a good reason.

When something fits in a certain description, a given label is appropiate even if someone does not acknowledge it. This is what seems to be happening.

"...Honest, officer! I thought he had pulled a gun on me!..."

And then when required to properly explain your position to prove there is something more than wishful thinking to your words you prefer to avoid the request.

This is certainly a remarkable position.

You're not goading me into this, just so you can have fun at the expense of my well-being. Find yourself another rube.

 

[McBell]

Apparently, you do, for this isn't a logical fallacy -- except when you label it "wishful thinking."

Wishful thinking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia