Is Islam "untrue"?

[Aamer]

I personally believe Islam to hold little truth from God.

One test you could try on any religion... is to ask if its teachings seems reasonable even with out reference to its main scripture?
Do they seem as reasonable today, as when they were first propounded?
Do they require adherence to fixed unaltered Authority?
Have they the ability to adapt to new circumstances?
Are the teachings open ended so as to apply as concepts rather than specifics?
Do the teachings encourage fairness equality and justice to everyone, of what ever faith, sexuality, colour or political view?
Does it allow God and its beliefs and customs to be defended with violence?

It would seem to me that Islam fails in all these areas.

Other even more fundamental questions include ...
Was Mohamed a true prophet?
Is the Quran the word of God?

I don't think you've read the Quran. Am I right? You're only going on what you see and hear from both Muslims and Non-Muslims. Am I right? The Quran doesn't fail in any of the areas you mentioned. It passes in all of those areas. I can't say the same for any other scripture I've read. Please don't mistaken the "Islam" you see in the world today with what is contained in the Quran. Judge the Quran on it's own. Less than 1% of Muslims have read the Quran. Peace.

 

[danieldemol]

Religious in non religious

Sorry but I didn't start forum
You have to say such thing to one who posted this topic
I don't have access to delete it

Why delete it? Such unfair comparisons are commonly put forward, recording these comparisons and their refutations provides educational value to others who would potentially make the same comparisons.

Khadija married 3 times

I don't know if your speech is true or not

Read any biography (sirat Rasool ullah) and you will find it is not disputed.

So that mean she married before she become muslim


so what?

It shows there is nothing inherently wrong with marrying a lady who is not a virgin. The person posting should have made the subject of their post "chastity", virginity is not relevant.

She didn't carry aids

I did not say that she had aids, but then again most non-virgins don't have aids, so that is hardly surprising.

In Arab world this is fact doesn't need to be proved

I have noticed that in portions of the Muslim section of the Arab world cultural fictions don't require proof to be accepted as fact.

So that why we don't have such diseases

Lol;

More than 630 nationals in - UAE - have Aids - paper - UAE - ArabianBusiness.com

UAE prepares draft law to end HIV/AIDS discrimination - Healthcare - ArabianBusiness.com

This is how conversation take place and now by your question
You are taking us to pre Islam life

You just told me above that widows still get re-married, what is pre-Islamic about it?

 

[Aamer]

I do believe that Islam is false. I believe it has some truths in it such as its insistence on Monotheism. However, they deny the existence of the Holy Trinity and I believe they say that the Most Holy Trinity is three "gods" when in reality orthodox Christians believe that they are only one God yet three divine Persons. So I believe that they are false when it comes to their rejection of the Most Holy Trinity. I believe they are also false concerning the "prophet-hood" of Muhammad. I believe that Muhammad was not a true prophet but a false prophet. There are quite a few other things that I believe that Islam gets wrong as well.

The Bible denies the trinity as well.

 

[Aamer]

From wikipedia;
"The Gospel of Barnabas is a book depicting the life of Jesus, and claiming to be by Jesus' disciple Barnabas, who in this work is one of the twelve apostles. Two manuscripts are known to have existed, both dated to the late 16th century and written respectively in Italian and in Spanish—although the Spanish manuscript is now lost, its text surviving only in a partial 18th-century transcript"

"This Gospel is considered by the majority of academics, including Christians and some Muslims (such as Abbas el-Akkad) to be late and pseudepigraphical;[1]"

It seems the sheikhs you listen to are feeding you pseudo-historical fiction.

If you would like a more authentic appreciation of Muhammad try this one;
Some Answered Questions, Muhammad Pages 18-24

Any rational Muslim (not that I've run across too many) would agree that the Gospel of Barnabas holds no validity.

 

[Thoughts]

Why delete it? Such unfair comparisons are commonly put forward, recording these comparisons and their refutations provides educational value to others who would potentially make the same comparisons.


Read any biography (sirat Rasool ullah) and you will find it is not disputed.


It shows there is nothing inherently wrong with marrying a lady who is not a virgin. The person posting should have made the subject of their post "chastity", virginity is not relevant.


I did not say that she had aids, but then again most non-virgins don't have aids, so that is hardly surprising.


I have noticed that in portions of the Muslim section of the Arab world cultural fictions don't require proof to be accepted as fact.


All I can say to that is lol.


You just told me above that widows still get re-married, what is pre-Islamic about it?

So you saying it is ok if you were poor to let your family work in such job!

I don't think this is what do you mean

Those women even they are not our sisters but we don't like them
To be treated in such way

It is true widow is not virgin
Widow in our countries almost marry widow or divorced

There is no fair comparison between widow and those kind of women

Widow is married

First of all not sleeping with whatever

So there is different about what she will teach your kids

If you don't give ethics any interest so it will be something normal

Fiction not need to be proof

No not true I can bring you Arab statics which you will not understand

It is my country if something happened they will take them to prison men or women

It is not like your countries when she get 16 she leave her family house
And do whatever she want

No

Here women will live with her parents untill she get married

Her parents will pay for her scholarship
And every thing she doesn't need to work

When she gradute she has the right to work if she want

All her money will be for her

 

[Riverwolf]

It is not like your countries when she get 16 she leave her family house
And do whatever she want

18. And that's the way it should be.

Because if men can do it, so can women.

 

[Thoughts]

18. And that's the way it should be.

Because if men can do it, so can women.

Some men can but women cant

Not case of all time

 

[Looncall]

Some men can but women cant

Not case of all time

Women should have rights equal to those of men. Denial of this by muslims is a reason why islam is widely despised.

 

[danieldemol]

So you saying it is ok if you were poor to let your family work in such job!

I don't think this is what do you mean

You are correct in observing that I have not made a statement on the moral acceptability of such employment under poverty conditions.

I think the concept I'm putting forward is not difficult to grasp.

Take 1000 people, all of whom believe that prostitution is immoral, then put them in a place where they will starve to death if they don't engage in prostitution. As starvation sets in, more of those people who believe prostitution is wrong will engage in prostitution to save themselves, and only a portion will make it all the way to death rather than sin to save life.

This is why I make the point, you can't make a comparison between the moral calibre of rich Arabs and poor people elsewhere. If those Arabs were deprived of their wealth, and placed under similar conditions, who is to say that they would pass the test? They may all believe they would, but I think they can't know for certain until it comes to the crunch.

Those women even they are not our sisters but we don't like them
To be treated in such way

Neither do I. Perhaps the Arabs are having enough oil wealth to give the citizens of Vegas a choice who would choose a better life if they had the option.

It is true widow is not virgin
Widow in our countries almost marry widow or divorced

There is no fair comparison between widow and those kind of women

Widow is married

First of all not sleeping with whatever

So there is different about what she will teach your kids

Although the point was made with respect to "virgin" women, not with respect to "chaste" women, I still doubt that Arab Muslims are incapable of sin. It may possibly be that the sin is unreported due to fear of going to jail, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

If you don't give ethics any interest so it will be something normal

I am interested in ethics, in fact I'm religious.

Fiction not need to be proof

Fiction requires proof when people claim it as truth instead of claiming it as fiction.

No not true I can bring you Arab statics which you will not understand

It is my country if something happened they will take them to prison men or women

Bring the statistics, it may be there is someone here who is independant to both of us capable of translating them. Having said that, I'm sure you can see why such things may go unreported if there is a jail sentence attached to reporting them.

It is not like your countries when she get 16 she leave her family house
And do whatever she want

I'm sure Muslims would consider a girl to be an adult before she reaches 16.

Here women will live with her parents untill she get married

Why shouldn't an adult woman be allowed to live on her own?
Do you doubt that women have sufficient moral calibre to reject sexual urges they consider to be immoral?

 

[Thoughts]

You are correct in observing that I have not made a statement on the moral acceptability of such employment under poverty conditions.

I think the concept I'm putting forward is not difficult to grasp.

Take 1000 people, all of whom believe that prostitution is immoral, then put them in a place where they will starve to death if they don't engage in prostitution. As starvation sets in, more of those people who believe prostitution is wrong will engage in prostitution to save themselves, and only a portion will make it all the way to death rather than sin to save life.

This is why I make the point, you can't make a comparison between the moral calibre of rich Arabs and poor people elsewhere. If those Arabs were deprived of their wealth, and placed under similar conditions, who is to say that they would pass the test? They may all believe they would, but I think they can't know for certain until it comes to the crunch.



Neither do I. Perhaps the Arabs are having enough oil wealth to give the citizens of Vegas a choice who would choose a better life if they had the option.


Although the point was made with respect to "virgin" women, not with respect to "chaste" women, I still doubt that Arab Muslims are incapable of sin. It may possibly be that the sin is unreported due to fear of going to jail, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


I am interested in ethics, in fact I'm religious.


Fiction requires proof when people claim it as truth instead of claiming it as fiction.


Bring the statistics, it may be there is someone here who is independant to both of us capable of translating them. Having said that, I'm sure you can see why such things may go unreported if there is a jail sentence attached to reporting them.


I'm sure Muslims would consider a girl to be an adult before she reaches 16.



Why shouldn't an adult woman be allowed to live on her own?
Do you doubt that women have sufficient moral calibre to reject sexual urges they consider to be immoral?

This is your opinion not fact

If happened it will be in newspaper
Almost men no Arab women recorded

They are not local even

Here is talking about such issue

Virginity Around the World.

Last weekend, the BBC published a fascinating article on the popularity of surgery designed to "restore" virginity among Arab women. For many women, lying and saying they're virgins is not enough to please the patriarchal requirement that women come to marriage without any previous sexual experience. No, a woman has to physically demonstrate that she is a virgin by experiencing tearing and bleeding on her wedding night. This sadistic requirement leads some Arab women to pay thousands of dollars to modify their genitals so they experience more pain during sex. It's brutal. The big reason for it?

Arab writer and social commentator,
Sana Al Khayat
believes the whole issue has much to with the notion of "control".

"If she's a virgin, she doesn't have any way of comparing [her husband to other men]. If she's been with other men, then she has experience. Having experience makes women stronger.

 

[Riverwolf]

Some men can but women cant

Not case of all time

Women can do everything men can. Women have, throughout history, done everything that men have done. I don't think there's a single job or task that men normally do that hasn't been successfully done by women.

The only thing men can't do that women can is have babies.

 

[McBell]

This is your opinion not fact

:biglaugh:

 

[Thoughts]

Women can do everything men can. Women have, throughout history, done everything that men have done. I don't think there's a single job or task that men normally do that hasn't been successfully done by women.

The only thing men can't do that women can is have babies.

Right

But even men nowadays did have baby

Link

Thomas Beatie, another transgender man, has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...

There is also one from swedish


Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=2

Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=17


ABCNews.com]

Thomas explained to Oprah last year that the desire to have a child is not based on gender. “I feel it’s not a male or female desire to want to have a child, it’s a human desire. I’m a person and I have the right to have my own biological child.” Beatie and his wife have a book out that was published late last year called Labor of Love: The Story of One Man’s Extraordinary Pregnancy. The reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive.

Congratulations to Thomas and Nancy on their new arrival

 

[Thoughts]

:biglaugh:

The picture that you post for laughing guy doesn't match with one below your nickname!

 

[Riverwolf]

Right

But even men nowadays did have baby

Link

Thomas Beatie, another transgender man, has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...

There is also one from swedish


Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=2

Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=17

Then it can be safely said that men and women are equal, and so should be treated equally.

So, women should not be "protected" unless men should be offered the same protection from women.

 

[danieldemol]

Right

But even men nowadays did have baby

Link

Thomas Beatie, another transgender man, has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...

There is also one from swedish


Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=2

Thomas - Beatie%2C another transgender man%2C has borne three children. He chose to become pregnant because his wife*...&sa=N#i=17

So does this mean that men have to live at home with their parents because now they are the same as women?

 

[Riverwolf]

So does this mean that men have to live at home with their parents because now they are the same as women?

I'm 25 (26 in a few weeks), not transgendered, but I live with my parents. ^_^ (Well, my mom.)

 

[danieldemol]

Then it can be safely said that men and women are equal, and so should be treated equally.

So, women should not be "protected" unless men should be offered the same protection from women.

Dang! Beat me to the post button

 

[Riverwolf]

Dang! Beat me to the post button

 

[Thoughts]

Then it can be safely said that men and women are equal, and so should be treated equally.

So, women should not be "protected" unless men should be offered the same protection from women.

Why women should not be protected

It easy to take advantage from women

They will tell her that they love her and they care about her

Then once men take her virginity they leave her alone