Is the Far Right in America Morally Bankrupt?

[Reverend Rick]

Did you always hope Robin Hood would get caught and strung up in the cartoons as a boy?

Well when everyone is poor and we have one rich king, I will get on board with you all.

Everyone has money problems. Either you are worrying about getting some money or you have to worry about keeping your money. Either way, money is the root of all evil.

The middle class is shrinking. That is a fact. What no one is admitting to is, there are just as many middle class folks becoming rich and no longer middle class as there are people slipping down the class ladder.

We as Americans, waste so much, pay so little, feel entitled to so many comforts and expect to not have to work very hard for them.

That's a fact. What was the status quo for a middle class family back in the 50's and 60's would be looked upon as poor by today's standards. In a nutshell, we are all over privileged for the efforts we put forth in this world.

 

[capslockf9]

Love is not measured. one can not say I love american or I love cannanites and be true. Love does not come in portions. Either you love everybody or you are being self servent.

 

[Scuba Pete]

More importantly, you can't claim to love someone and bomb them at the same time.

"For the Far Right so loved the world that they bombed the living crap out of them." This is the tragic logic that these hypocrites would have you believe.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Gentlemen, while I realize that the more Christ like we all are the better and Jesus would never go to war with anyone. You are able to say that because someone else will do your dirty work for you.

I would rather burn in hell than live my life on this planet a coward. I could not have shown the restraint that Christ did that day in Calvary. Could you watch your home burnt, your wife and children raped while you stand there and do nothing? Would you allow your Mother and Father to be killed and your brothers and sisters tortured?

The different between Christ and ourselves is, he was God on earth. The only perfect man to ever live on the planet. He had to do what he did. He gave his life for all our salvation. While I am far from perfect, if I could save the world by being a pacifist, I would.

That said, I cannot save the world and I am not Jesus Christ and I AM NOT PERFECT LIKE HE WAS HERE ON EARTH.

I am just a man, but I enjoy the freedoms I have earned with my blood sweat and tears and I would gladly lay down my life just as Christ did to save my family from harm. Would that be a sin? Perhaps, but Jesus died on the cross for my sins and I will be forgiven.

I will not hide behind Christ's principles and allow my country, family, or friends be attacked by an aggressor. I will be a man who is not afraid of God's judgement while being a protector of my family as well as my nation.

Who would Jesus bomb? No one, but God the father has used his righteous wrath on many a deserving recipient.

 

[PureX]

The different between Christ and ourselves is, he was God on earth. The only perfect man to ever live on the planet. He had to do what he did. He gave his life for all our salvation. While I am far from perfect, if I could save the world by being a pacifist, I would.

That said, I cannot save the world and I am not Jesus Christ and I AM NOT PERFECT LIKE HE WAS HERE ON EARTH.

So you don't believe that Jesus' life and death present you with a model for your own, or that he is challenging you to follow his example?

How are you a Christian, then?

 

[Reverend Rick]

So you don't believe that Jesus' life and death present you with a model for your own, or that he is challenging you to follow his example?

How are you a Christian, then?

I am a Christian because I believe Jesus Christ is our lord and Savior. I have accepted the gift of salvation. It is my obligation to TRY to be Christ like. We all fall short and I will be forgiven.

Purex, If you slap me, I will turn the other cheek. When I came home from VietNam, I was spit on and called a baby killer. I have been called a baby killer by a member of RF in a private message. I have forgave these people. I hate no one.

If my country or family is in eminent danger, I will do what is necessary and face the consequences for my actions.

 

[Scuba Pete]

So you don't believe that Jesus' life and death present you with a model for your own, or that he is challenging you to follow his example?

How are you a Christian, then?

Phenomenal question! Frubals on your head!

Real courage comes from learning to turn the other cheek and not in justifying killing others in the name of God and Country.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Phenomenal question! Frubals on your head!

Real courage comes from learning to turn the other cheek and not in justifying killing others in the name of God and Country.

I guess you would let your family suffer while you worried about your own salvation. I have more faith in God and his judgement than that.

 

[McBell]

I guess you would let your family suffer while you worried about your own salvation. I have more faith in God and his judgement than that.

And how exactly would your family "Suffer" if the USA had not gone to war with Iraq?

 

[Reverend Rick]

And how exactly would your family "Suffer" if the USA had not gone to war with Iraq?

This thread is not about Iraq. So tell me, do you have to be exactly like the perfect Christ that walked the earth or your not a Christian? You cannot protect your family or be drafted and not be a Christian? I would never join the armed services, but I will always do my duty for my country when called.

 

[McBell]

This thread is not about Iraq. So tell me, do you have to be exactly like the perfect Christ that walked the earth or your not a Christian? You cannot protect your family or be drafted and not be a Christian? I would never join the armed services, but I will always do my duty for my country when called.

Interesting how you did not answer the question.

So tell me, do you have to be exactly like the perfect Christ that walked the earth or your not a Christian?

When did I even hint that one has to be "exactly like the perfect Christ that walked the earth" to be a Christian?
I haven't.
Though It does most often seem that that is used far to often to excuse anything that a Christian does that goes against the teachings of Christ.

You cannot protect your family or be drafted and not be a Christian?

Who said that?
I haven't.

All I did was ask how your family would "suffer" if the USA did not declare war on Iraq.
You have gone to great lengths to not answer that rather direct question.
I cannot help but wonder why.

However, since you are being rather defensive and extremely evasive about that particular question, I will not ask again.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Interesting how you did not answer the question.


When did I even hint that one has to be "exactly like the perfect Christ that walked the earth" to be a Christian?
I haven't.
Though It does most often seem that that is used far to often to excuse anything that a Christian does that goes against the teachings of Christ.


Who said that?
I haven't.

All I did was ask how your family would "suffer" if the USA did not declare war on Iraq.
You have gone to great lengths to not answer that rather direct question.
I cannot help but wonder why.

However, since you are being rather defensive and extremely evasive about that particular question, I will not ask again.

You want to debate Iraq, start a thread. I will do a one on one with you on Iraq if you like. I am more involved in what is moral and what a Christian is right at the moment. I am not good at multi-tasking sorry.

 

[McBell]

You want to debate Iraq, start a thread. I will do a one on one with you on Iraq if you like. I am more involved in what is moral and what a Christian is right at the moment. I am not good at multi-tasking sorry.

it is not my intentions to debate Iraq.
Mainly because I suspect we mostly agree on the issue.

I was merely wondering if your thoughts on the issue included the whole country or just you personally or perhaps the immediate community in which you live or what.

And if it did include the whole country, like this current mess with Iraq, how would the USA not declaring war on Iraq cause your family to "suffer"?
Since your family suffering was the reason you gave...

 

[Scuba Pete]

The far right uses the same tactics as Nazi Germany for overcoming these "moral objections"...

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Just think back to this when you see the "But I'm a patriot and you are not" line of crappola.

 

[PureX]

If my country or family is in eminent danger, I will do what is necessary and face the consequences for my actions.

I completely understand this sentiment. What I don't understand is how you can justify it as a Christian. Because as a Christian, clearly we are being challenged to live AND DIE as Jesus did. I understand that you and I may fall short of that challenge, but that does not negate the challenge, nor does it justify our falling short.

I am seeing you justifying yourself after having already made up your mind that you will not follow Jesus' example. And so I have to ask about this as a Christian.

 

[PureX]

I guess what really troubles myself and others, here, is that there are a lot of people who claim to be Christians who not only flatly refuse to even consider living or dying as Jesus lived and died, but who stand proudly in their defiance of his passive and forgiving position, while actually disdaining those who DO try to live that way. And I (we) find this defiance of Jesus' words and example as grossly arrogant and perverse, and their disdain for peace-loving people offensive, and anything but Christian.

It sometimes happens that a nation must go to war to defend itself. But that DOESN'T MAKE GOING TO WAR RIGHT, NOR DOES IT JUSTIFY IT IN CHRIST.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I started a thread about this phenomenon: Do morals warp people's religion?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I am not about to let terrorists destroy everything this country stands for and just lay down and let someone take this country over or even threaten this country with out confronting them with extreme prejudice.

What you are saying is, we should let anyone invade this country and do nothing about it because we are a nation of Christians? We should let criminals rape our women and steal our possessions and murder us in our beds any time they so choose because we are Christians?

I have faith in my maker to judge me fairly. I don't believe I have to choose between being an American and a Christian. All you pacifists will not have a choice because we will be invaded if it were not for people like me.

I'm not a draft dodging coward and I did turn the other cheek when I returned home from Vietnam.

Some folks can call themselves Patriots, but they have no clue what being a Patriot even is. How are you going to be a Patriot when you don't have a country any more because you were afraid of losing your salvation or just saying that as an excuse for your own cowardice?

Christians are not suppose to judge one another and frankly asking someone how you could serve your country and still be a Christian is offensive. The lord does not expect me to be perfect and he knows the difference between killing and murder.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I guess a Christian could not be a police officer either right?

 

[Francine]

How are you going to be a Patriot when you don't have a country any more because you were afraid of losing your salvation or just saying that as an excuse for your own cowardice?

Did you know that the United States just got put on Canada's watch list of countries suspected of committing torture? We already "don't have a country any more". At least not the one I remember in the 1990s.