Is This A Lie?

[McBell]

There is no way the posted link is "short and to the point". If we have looked at two different articles then to call it that is a "mistake". To lead me to believe he @Mestemia actually thinks that article I saw (because I followed the same link as he) is "short and to the point" is lying imho.

Some people (not me anymore) can think, "I might consider that article short and to the point", then he has lied.

Why not? Because he doesn't want to lie? It wasn't his intention? Because to lie is to be a liar and he knows he isn't?

I go away thinking there are people who see complication and call it, "short and to the point". It might be short by some perspectives. But it isn't to the point! Which point?
It seems there might be a hundred points in that article.

lol

My apologies.
I just couldn't help myself.

 

[Smart_Guy]

A lie is a word that describes the info you say to others, if it doesn't coincide with the reality of what being said; it is a contradictory word to the word " reality", not an opposite one; that means, the present of one, negates the other; if the truth is missing in what you are telling then it is a lie. Yes, you can be in mistake in what you are doing, or in what you are thinking, but if you tell me that info as if it were to coincide with reality, while it does not. that is a lie.

In the Quran God said to those who said God has a child, they are lying, even though, they are mistaking in their thinking, and they got that from the people before them believing it to be true. Why, because it does not coincide with the reality of what being said. (surah 37:152)

Does that mean the guy who went to the hospital in my example is not a liar? Or someone who says they are going to a supermarket but have an accident in the way and die, is a liar? (well unless after they die, someone takes their body to a super market, of course)

Islam also only accepts religious deeds with intentions, even if someone intended to do something but died before doing it the would be accepted.

I believe lying is directly connected with intentions.

 

[Britedream]

Does that mean the guy who went to the hospital in my example is not a liar? Or someone who says they are going to a supermarket but have an accident in the way and die, is a liar? (well unless after they die, someone takes their body to a super market, of course)

Islam also only accepts religious deeds with intentions, even if someone intended to do something but died before doing it the would be accepted.

I believe lying is directly connected with intentions.

since you are a muslim and can read arabic, I will prove it to you from the prophet him self , as mentioned by ibn othaimeen.
"والكذب: هو الخبر المخالف للواقع، والصدق: هو الخبر المطابق للواقع، فإذا قال قائل: "قدِم فلانٌ اليوم" وهو لم يَقدُم، فهذا كذب سَواءٌ علم أم لم يعلم، ودليل ذلك قصة سُبَيْعةَ الأسلمِيَّةِ رضي الله عنها حينما مات عنها زوجها وهي حامل فوضعت بعد موته بليالٍ ثم خلعت ثياب الحداد، ولبست الثياب الجميلة تريد أن تُخطَب، فدخل عليها أبو السنابل فقال لها: "ما أنت بناكح حتى يأتي عليك أربعةُ أشهر وعشر"، لأنها وضعت بعد موت زوجها بنحو أربعين ليلة أو أقل أو أكثر، فلبست ثياب الإحداد ثم أتت إلى الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم وأخبرته بالخبر فقال لها: "كذب أبو السنابل" [1] ، مع أن الرجل ما تعمد الكذب، يظن أنها تعتدُ بأطول الأجلين، فإن بقيت حاملاً بعد أربعةِ أشهر وعشر بقيت في الإحداد حتى تضع، وإن وضعت قبل أربعة أشهر وعشر بقيت في الإحداد حتى تتم لها أربعةُ أشهر وعشر، تعتد أطول الأجلين، ولكن السنَّة بينت أن الحامل عِدَّتُها وضع الحمل ولو دون أربعةِ أشهر، فالشاهد أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أطلق على قول أبي السنابل "كَذب" مع أنه لم يتعمد."

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Islam also only accepts religious deeds with intentions, even if someone intended to do something but died before doing it the would be accepted.
I believe lying is directly connected with intentions.

Intention is also very important in Buddhist ethics.

 

[columbus]

I believe lying is directly connected with intentions.

I've never even heard of a language or culture that did not make a distinction between deliberately misinforming and accidentally misinforming.
Tom

 

[Segev Moran]

Say person a asks person b where he is going. Person b replies "the shop" but has no intention of going to the shop and instead is planning a visit to a friend. However, on his way to see his friend he does indeed change his mind and go to the shop.

Did person b lie?

I Think the more important question is Why would Person B Lie?
What was his reason?

Which raises a nice question.. Do you think there is a "good" lie ?

 

[Britedream]

Intention is also very important in Buddhist ethics.

No problem with that at all, but what is a lie; it is an info told that doesn't coincide with the reality of what being told, whether intended or not. not all lies are bad.

 

[Smart_Guy]

since you are a muslim and can read arabic, I will prove it to you from the prophet him self , as mentioned by ibn othaimeen.
"والكذب: هو الخبر المخالف للواقع، والصدق: هو الخبر المطابق للواقع، فإذا قال قائل: "قدِم فلانٌ اليوم" وهو لم يَقدُم، فهذا كذب سَواءٌ علم أم لم يعلم، ودليل ذلك قصة سُبَيْعةَ الأسلمِيَّةِ رضي الله عنها حينما مات عنها زوجها وهي حامل فوضعت بعد موته بليالٍ ثم خلعت ثياب الحداد، ولبست الثياب الجميلة تريد أن تُخطَب، فدخل عليها أبو السنابل فقال لها: "ما أنت بناكح حتى يأتي عليك أربعةُ أشهر وعشر"، لأنها وضعت بعد موت زوجها بنحو أربعين ليلة أو أقل أو أكثر، فلبست ثياب الإحداد ثم أتت إلى الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم وأخبرته بالخبر فقال لها: "كذب أبو السنابل" [1] ، مع أن الرجل ما تعمد الكذب، يظن أنها تعتدُ بأطول الأجلين، فإن بقيت حاملاً بعد أربعةِ أشهر وعشر بقيت في الإحداد حتى تضع، وإن وضعت قبل أربعة أشهر وعشر بقيت في الإحداد حتى تتم لها أربعةُ أشهر وعشر، تعتد أطول الأجلين، ولكن السنَّة بينت أن الحامل عِدَّتُها وضع الحمل ولو دون أربعةِ أشهر، فالشاهد أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أطلق على قول أبي السنابل "كَذب" مع أنه لم يتعمد."

Thanks. I agree that if someone tells me Fajr prayer is 3 rakaa while they are drugged not knowing what they are really saying a lie, but what happened here is giving wrong information, and giving wrong information in Islam is a big and serious deal that the Prophet called it a lie probably due to disapproval of what Abu-ssanabil did. It is not similar to an honest pure intention of really wanting to "do" something but failing to do it. Also, the case we're having here is in the OP is telling to do something but having the pure intention of not doing it. If that's not a lie even if realized by chance, then everyone can just lie and if they found a chance to act like they are not liars when they are discovered, they would take it just for shows. I don't believe the Prophet would call someone who tells people he's going to perform Hajj, goes to do it but dies due to terrorist attack in the way, for example, a liar. Do you believe he would?

By the way, I'm just sharing what thing seem to me. You could be right after all.

 

[Britedream]

Thanks. I agree that if someone tells me Fajr prayer is 3 rakaa while they are drugged not knowing what they are really saying a lie, but what happened here is giving wrong information, and giving wrong information in Islam is a big and serious deal that the Prophet called it a lie probably due to disapproval of what Abu-ssanabil did. It is not similar to an honest pure intention of really wanting to "do" something but failing to do it. Also, the case we're having here is in the OP is telling to do something but having the pure intention of not doing it. If that's not a lie even if realized by chance, then everyone can just lie and if they found a chance to act like they are not liars when they are discovered, they would take it just for shows. I don't believe the Prophet would call someone who tells people he's going to perform Hajj, goes to do it but dies due to terrorist attack in the way, for example, a liar. Do you believe he would?

By the way, I'm just sharing what thing seem to me. You could be right after all.

I am not arguing the effect of lies, I am simply saying what is a lie. so the question of the OP can be answered.

 

[columbus]

Which raises a nice question.. Do you think there is a "good" lie ?

Oh yes, definitely. There are many circumstances where telling the truth is the wrong thing to do.
Tom

 

[columbus]

I am not arguing the effect of lies, I am simply saying what is a lie. so the question of the OP can be answered.

Normal English usage has now been explained to you a few times.
This is rapidly becoming a lie, because you know the truth but keep repeating something that is not true.
Tom

 

[McBell]

Oh yes, definitely. There are many circumstances where telling the truth is the wrong thing to do.
Tom

 

[Britedream]

Normal English usage has now been explained to you a few times.
This is rapidly becoming a lie, because you know the truth but keep repeating something that is not true.
Tom

What is not true about it. is lie definition only found in the english language?

 

[columbus]

What is not true about it.

In English we make a difference between saying something wrong on purpose and saying something wrong accidentally. The first is a lie, the second is a mistake.
People make mistakes all the time. There is little blame for an "honest mistake". Lying is very different, knowing the truth and saying something else is where the blame comes from.

is lie definition only found in the english language?

Yes. "lie" is a word in the English language and the way I use it is the meaning in English.
I suspect that the problem here is that you are translating an Arabic word into English, when the Arabic word doesn't really mean the exact same thing.
Perhaps @Smart_Guy could help explain the difference. His English is better than most USA.
Tom

 

[Britedream]

In English we make a difference between saying something wrong on purpose and saying something wrong accidentally. The first is a lie, the second is a mistake.
People make mistakes all the time. There is little blame for an "honest mistake". Lying is very different, knowing the truth and saying something else is where the blame comes from.

Yes. "lie" is a word in the English language and the way I use it is the meaning in English.
I suspect that the problem here is that you are translating an Arabic word into English, when the Arabic word doesn't really mean the exact same thing.
Perhaps @Smart_Guy could help explain the difference. His English is better than most USA.
Tom

Did Washington and Lee University said that in the link I provided?

 

[columbus]

Did Washington and Lee University said that in the link I provided?

I have no idea.
Tom

 

[Britedream]

I have no idea.
Tom

It is in one of my previous posts, please go ahead and read it, and tell me where it talks about mistakes.

 

[McBell]

It is in one of my previous posts, please go head and read it, and tell me where it talks about mistakes.

How about YOU read YOUR linked PDF file and let us know where it talks about mistakes.

 

[columbus]

It is in one of my previous posts, please go ahead and read it, and tell me where it talks about mistakes.

No. I think you should find an English tutor who speaks your native language. They will be far better able to explain what you don't understand about English usage.
I am confident that you read a definition that you didn't entirely understand.
Your insistence that you know English better than I do left me disliking you for the arrogance I found in your posts. That leaves me uninclined to donate time to teaching you English and translation skills.
Tom

 

[Britedream]

No. I think you should find an English tutor who speaks your native language. They will be far better able to explain what you don't understand about English usage.
I am confident that you read a definition that you didn't entirely understand.
Your insistence that you know English better than I do left me disliking you for the arrogance I found in your posts. That leaves me uninclined to donate time to teaching you English and translation skills.
Tom

Fallacy of argument, instead of posting what you asked to do, you started attacking the Messenger, trying to find an excuse to run away.