Master Path - Gary Olsen

[end_of_faith]

that I just happened across...perhaps the discussion can be expanded beyond the constrictions & limitations of a religious organization....

Man Made God | Science and religion: God didn't make man; man made gods - Los Angeles Times

enjoy

 

[Zeeker]

Zeeker, you have a right to believe what you believe, but why do you feel it's ok to make negative statements about my master? What gives you the right?

Vichar, ordinarily I don’t have any particular interest in what anyone else believes …unless it impinges on me in some way. That is their business. However, when I personally know someone and they are behaving towards me in an odd manner, an ambivalent manner, that baffles me. When they unexplainably break away, and for some reason are unable to listen to or look at unassuming ideas that are of mutual interest to the both of us. And I find out that they are caught up in an organization that espouses their exclusive doctrine with anything to the contrary seen as temptations of “the devil” (e.g. Kal and his agents) that they are instructed to severe themselves from. Have discovered why, and who the source of where this authority is coming from. Then it becomes my business, if I choose it to be! Because I know what the instigator is doing (from much the same situations I have encountered and overcome myself in my past) and have a pretty good idea how he is doing it, and know that it is wrong and taking advantage of others.

I don’t mean to rain on your parade. I could just write a personal journal and keep my thoughts to myself. However, if I feel it will help others by writing them somewhere where anyone can read them, and feel an obligation to share my uncoverings as a service to others. And I can tell you, I would have much appreciated it if some had done that for me in the past. I felt “insane” after “getting out,” until I read the testimonials of others who had left, confirming my experience and expressing their own, which I can fully comprehend.

Maybe ask yourself why you keep coming here, onto this thread. If postings disagree with you so badly, read something else, close the book, switch the channel? I’m sure most other chelas won’t come here for they know (i.e. Gary knows) that being exposed to different perspectives can lead to a change in their thinking. There is nothing wrong with having a guru to teach you. We have the driving instructor that teaches a learner to drive. Sure, a person is capable of teaching themselves to drive if they are determined, but it is more than likely to take longer and they will miss out on proven good habits. However, the need for the instructor is to become a competent driver, ON YOUR OWN. (Any Sat Guru will know that.) Some will take longer than others, but will get there in an acceptable time period. You don’t need an instructor who wants to be a permanent fixture in your car and keep being paid for more lessons! By the same token, I don’t believe anyone is destined to become a “40 year old virgin” still living with Mom. Especially a mother who will sabotage any girlfriend who happens to come along, in order to keep having her own needs met. Everyone aspires to tread their own path and find their own way?

You probably think you're trying to help me as well, and I acknowledge that (thanks!).

I don’t doubt your experiences, and that they are profound and real for you. Now you have been taught how to create them, what more do you want? It must be a long haul between the fourth and the fifth (initiation). What do you need to still learn now, how to be an effective recruiter for Gary?

Here’s something for you to try: Put together and write your own contemplation exercise to trial, and swap a photo of yourself for Gary’s portrait. Does your own contemplation exercise work for you just the same? Is your own imagination just as good as Gary’s? Let us know how you get on, if you dare to try it!

 

[Vichar]

Don't worry Zeeker, you're not raining on my parade. I understand--your loved one appeared to pull away from you, and you don't think it was for any good reason. In fact, you think it was in the support of untruth. Can I just say that I understand, and hold no rancor at all towards you?

I came on this thread initially to provide an alternate viewpoint to the ones that were predominant in this thread. Then I felt sorry for end of faith and wanted to help her not do something she would regret later.

While I understand your reasoning, Zeeker, I don't agree with it. You have basically provided two main motivations to me:

1) Your significant other pulled away from you because of Masterpath, therefore, MasterPath must be wrong.

2) You investigated some other path yourself, and it was creepy (or at least not for you), therefore MasterPath must be wrong.

I'm afraid I cannot support the reasoning in either case, which I hope you will understand. I did not come here to make anyone feel badly, but rather to simply defend the truth. No one is under any obligation to agree with me, but I hope, that we can at least agree, that attacking the practices and faith of other individuals, is wrong.

Incidentally, as far as trying other exercises, it's something I've already experimented with at length. The explanation probably won't be satisfying to you. I will just say that simraning something other than the master seems completely ineffective. I know about the emotional reverie that psychic practitioners experience, as well as the religious fervor that practitioners of mainstream relgions experience. I don't experience either. I feel like it is a wholeness, a feeling of love that is in agreement with reason, not against it. It is a feeling completely unlike any form of rationalization, or intellectual argument. It's like I'm vibrating, and I've encountered something that vibrates at the same frequency for the first time; nay, something that dramatically enhances the internal vibration of truth within me, and helps me see an ideal for myself that I could never have imagined before--never actually did imagine before. I see now how much more and better I can be, and it makes me want to continue onwards, to discover the essence of what I really am, and the vastness of the larger creation, not just this mental plane.

Well, I did my best to explain my viewpoint, and you don't have to agree. Once again, you believe you are trying to help me and others to avoid a mistake, but can you at least acknowledge the possibility that for me, this is not a mistake.

And stop saying that I'm recruiting for Gary, or that I might think that is a goal. If someone is ready for Masterpath, then it will appeal to them. If not, and I have seen this first hand repeatedly, they won't believe in the master, the won't agree with the works, and they won't want to follow that path. This is correct, and I wouldn't want to convince them otherwise.

 

[Vichar]

Tell me, when your master tells a person that she is deluded to think she is on the spiritual path IF SHE IS NOT ON THE MASTERPATH....what is that? True? Because he says so? Would you view it as audacious and negative, incurring karma, digging a deeper hole, insincere, extreme veering, attacking, denigrating the path of another? Or would you view/relate to his words as some deep spiritual insight beyond the person's mental capacity to understand? Just curious.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I thought went down. Obviously, to Gary, masterpath is teaching light and sound, and light and sound is THE path. It's not the only stage on the path, but Gary feels it's a natural conclusion to a long process. You can easily interpret that statement as something negative (Masterpath is the only path). Or you can interpret that in other ways too. For example, it might mean, for that individual, masterpath is the correct path, and not another, because of where they have reached in consciousness.

Gary makes absolutely no attempt to soften his message, or to cater to your mind. He is there to lead a soul out of the maze of the mind. He has to say exactly the truth, and as human beings, I can easily see how someone can be offended when their mind's preferences are not observed. I really appreciate this about him, maybe even because it rubs some people the wrong way. It clearly outlines the difference between the mind and the soul. Gary says that the truth is not the truth unless it is spoken in love, and I wasn't there to hear to words you wrote when Gary said them. Every single word I've heard spoken by him to me has been in love.

You can choose to believe whatever you want. I definitely see that you interpret it negatively, which is your right. Certainly no one is trying to convince you to believe differently about masterpath. For my part, I am simply cautioning you that speaking negatively about others without proof, and about entire paths without specifics, is just a written attack, and this is not even legal, to say nothing about the spiritual ramifications. I can't tell if you agree that it's wrong, but it's almost like you're implying it's not wrong. I respectfully disagree, and I don't anticipate that we're going to reach agreement on this point. I wish you the best. Whether or not you continue to write bad things about MasterPath or Gary is up to you. You clearly believe what you believe, and are going to do what you've been doing, and no one is going to convince you otherwise.

Have a lovely evening filled with spiritual insights that cannot be bought for a mere pittance...for there is no monetary exchange for innate truth.

I'm not "buying spiritual insights". Insights are a gift; the result of grace. The dues are paid for a different reason, as you should already know. The real sacrifice on the path is something I'm only too glad to get rid of--namely my attachment to my current limited way of thinking.

 

[Zeeker]

that I just happened across...perhaps the discussion can be expanded beyond the constrictions & limitations of a religious organization....

Man Made God | Science and religion: God didn't make man; man made gods - Los Angeles Times

Good post End_of_Faith. Man inventing gods in his/her need to find meaning in our lives.

It is difficult to see the pitfalls and limitations of the beliefs we can hold so dear, that nothing can ever convince us of any apparent shortcomings no matter how blatant they are. Our attachments we are so afraid to give up to leave us vulnerable but also open to possible better alternatives.

“We can be better as a species if we recognize religion as a man-made construct. We owe it to ourselves to at least consider the real roots of religious belief, so we can deal with life as it is, taking advantage of perhaps our mind's greatest adaptation: our ability to use reason.”

Also interesting that research has demonstrated that we are already born with an innate capacity for altruism, but we end up having to learn ways of strategic self-interest as we become functional adults!

 

[end_of_faith]

Yeah, this is pretty much what I thought went down.

you "thought" wrong.... that's a moment in time defining a lifetime of experience. Very understandable why you cannot apply critical thinking in contemplating a deeper significance and meaning.

Obviously, to Gary, masterpath is teaching light and sound, and light and sound is THE path. It's not the only stage on the path, but Gary feels it's a natural conclusion to a long process. You can easily interpret that statement as something negative (Masterpath is the only path). Or you can interpret that in other ways too. For example, it might mean, for that individual, masterpath is the correct path, and not another, because of where they have reached in consciousness.

Predictable. So, please feel free to interpret the following as "something negative." Or as me "twisting words" or whatever suits your spiritual fantasy.

I asked the following question: Tell me, when your master tells a person that she is deluded to think she is on the spiritual path IF SHE IS NOT ON THE MASTERPATH....what is that?

Gary makes absolutely no attempt to soften his message, or to cater to your mind. He is there to lead a soul out of the maze of the mind. He has to say exactly the truth, and as human beings, I can easily see how someone can be offended when their mind's preferences are not observed. I really appreciate this about him, maybe even because it rubs some people the wrong way. It clearly outlines the difference between the mind and the soul. Gary says that the truth is not the truth unless it is spoken in love, and I wasn't there to hear to words you wrote when Gary said them. Every single word I've heard spoken by him to me has been in love.

So my response to you and your master is simply this... you are deluded if you think you are on the spiritual path if you are on the MasterPath....can you hear, see & feel the love spoken in that truth?

What do you mean: "I wasn't there to hear to words you wrote when Gary said them."? I didn't say anything about "words I wrote"....those were words spewed by your master....ya know, one of his "high" spiritual states....they were words of control and manipulation....

As far as every word spoken by Gary being words of love...well....you speak from both sides of your dual mind.

You can choose to believe whatever you want. I definitely see that you interpret it negatively, which is your right. Certainly no one is trying to convince you to believe differently about masterpath.

remember your own projection while contemplating spinning a reaction into a "I'm here to help you" action.... please.... have you lost all objectivity in seeing the underpinning attitude of your own belief system? I guess so...to see it is to transcend it...to transcend it is to leave it....to leave it is to realize what it is not....to realize what it is not is to see clearly.

I'm not "buying spiritual insights". Insights are a gift; the result of grace. The dues are paid for a different reason, as you should already know. The real sacrifice on the path is something I'm only too glad to get rid of--namely my attachment to my current limited way of thinking.

Yes, the monthly membership dues pay salaries, benefits, and retirement. And, I'm sure there will be more than one dues paying sincere chelas that will die destitute while your "master" will die having lived a very "cushy" life. Why do you think it is that the "principle of nothing is free" seems to apply to seekers, but not the master?

Yes, you are correct: you aren't "buying spiritual insights." You are simply swapping one limited way of thinking for another, that's all...the books you read are nothing more than re-written and plagiarized words of dead men. You believe it is the word of God, and are convinced it is the real deal. I once believed the same.

Last, please keep your pity for yourself. Give my warmest regards to your master.

 

[Zeeker]

Can I just say that I understand, and hold no rancor at all towards you?

That’s good to know, I don’t hold any animosity towards you either (no question mark).

While I understand your reasoning, Zeeker, I don't agree with it:

1) Your significant other pulled away from you because of Masterpath, therefore, MasterPath must be wrong.

2) You investigated some other path yourself, and it was creepy (or at least not for you), therefore MasterPath must be wrong.

I hope, that we can at least agree, that attacking the practices and faith of other individuals, is wrong.

1) Not wrong per se, but interfering with and controlling a person’s decisions to the point of disempowering them from wholly leading their own life. I would never have said anything, in this regard, if I felt my “detained” significant other’s mind was “free” and not being manipulated.

2) Those other paths I investigated employed subversive techniques, that I was oblivious to at the time. I was fortunate enough to unravel what was surreptitiously going on, how it was being done, which allowed me to leave unabated. I have found a path coming from one of those institutions to MasterPath whose leader showns himself as being conversant with such underhanded techniques.

I’m not attacking the practices of others and that they are of benefit, but wish point out that the person behind their passion also has ulterior motives that serve himself, and limit their freedom.

Incidentally, as far as trying other exercises, it's something I've already experimented with at length. The explanation probably won't be satisfying to you. I will just say that simraning something other than the master seems completely ineffective.

I can’t see why the same exercises with your true inner master would not work. Then again, no one has been willing, or been allowed to, provide me with any detail of how you actually do MP exercises ….unless I make the commitment of putting my money down first and agree not to turn back.

What happened to your lucid dreaming, why are you unable to do that anymore? Because you have accepted the concluding abandonment of all your psychic practices, as a condition of your MP membership?

Well, I did my best to explain my viewpoint, and you don't have to agree. Once again, you believe you are trying to help me and others to avoid a mistake, but can you at least acknowledge the possibility that for me, this is not a mistake.

I can see that it is not a mistake for you …at this time. Otherwise you wouldn’t have said so. A person’s predominant thoughts determine what they believe and are aware of at that point in time. One thing is for certain: everything is always moving and changing (myself included). That’s what Life is, and we all have to “grow” to continue. All I can add is: Remain Open for one day you may notice something more, that you did not notice before, which could go on to bring you somewhere even better still.

 

[Zeeker]

The dues are paid for a different reason, as you should already know. The real sacrifice on the path is something I'm only too glad to get rid of--namely my attachment to my current limited way of thinking.

The dues are not just an immaterial monthly fee a chela subscribes to? They are a Tool, a “weapon of ransom,” to be exploited and incorporated to commit an adherent to the prescribed course of MasterPath.

I asked my confidant to see the first discourse, the very first “lesson” of study of a seeker’s “investigation,” of the monthly course postings of MasterPath, and was refused. Why is that? Why can’t I be shown what to expect by taking a look at the very first instructions to see if I’m interested or not? When a prospective customer walks onto the lot, kicks the tires, lifts the hood, surely the salesman sitting in his office will realize the potential of a sale and rush out; know that the forthcoming test drive will be the next crucial step to synch a deal (right Gary?)? Nope, not allowed! A chela has clear instructions not to release any of their materials that have not been sanctioned for public viewing, and has no personal discretion in the matter. With good old “Saint Nick” (garji, who else?) stationed at the third eye, any chela who falters will be observed and caught out, with no “pressy’s” being handed over come “Christmas?”

The reason I am not allowed to see the first discourse is: I would then know what it was, before having made a commitment, agreed to more, much more. What if I then said: “Nah, I’m not paying thirty bucks for that! I’ve done that before and can do that myself and don’t need another set of instructions” Then, all would be lost, in terms of my recruitment. Ever seasoned poker player knows: you always make your benefactors Pay before you Show your hand, if you want to part them from their money (and in the process, you also make sure they find out that you can always be bluffing, so they will always ‘Pay to See’ your cards). Gary discourses have trained his captive chelas that any seeker has to “Pay to See,” before any of his teaching and instruction is to be revealed to them. :sarcastic

I also told my confidant that I was considering going for eight months of discourses to find out what the MP and its exercises entailed. You should have seen the lack-luster expression on her face together with her unbecoming response. No:- “That’s Great! You won’t regret your decision! That will the best thing you could ever do! I’m Glad you have decided to give it a try!” :sarcastic or anything similar, that I might have expected. No. Just a disdainful:- “Sign up for however long you want, it’s up to you.” She obviously knew something that I didn’t. I could just envision my check and membership request letter being returned to sender with a note asking me to reconsider what an appropriate period of investigation of MasterPath would comprise of. That $240 is just not enough to “Pay to See,” in order to investigate what MasterPath is all about?

I am familiar with the “game” that is being played here. On the discourse of such a Path, you will always be required to agree to a further ongoing commitment before the current one has ended. We all now know that the second initiation incorporates: a vow to be with the Master for as many lifetimes as it takes to reach god-realization. What does that imply? It implies that a chela agrees to pay their membership dues for the rest of their life, period! I have no idea how easy it would be to revoke such a vow. I can imagine it would take much more than cutting up your credit card and letting Gary and his officers know you want out? As for what will ensue in your future lifetimes - what can I say except: you can never truly know till your time actually comes up. I have just as much confidence in saying: that the parishioners of the People’s Temple who drank the laced cool-aid in order to translate and follow their Master (the Reverend Jim Jones) to heaven, never ever made it there with him; as you will have in meeting Gary again to go on and become gods with him next time round.

“something I'm only too glad to get rid of--namely my attachment to my current limited way of thinking.” :yes: Straight from a horse’s mouth. I couldn’t have pointed it out better myself!

 

[Vichar]

Hi Zeeker,

You've returned to topics that a seeker might be concerned about, so I am more than happy to respond to them.

First, regarding "try before you buy", copies of the book From Light to Sound are provided free of charge. Also, MasterPath volume #1 has also always been free. They offer a good introduction to the material, and if after reading them the seeker decides they want nothing to do with MasterPath, they can. But to be honest, my own logical statements have not had any effect up until now with you, Zeeker, so I don't really expect this one to either. You just grab at whatever convenient false reasoning suits your fancy in the moment and post it here. Let's look at your argument:

- Your assertion: MasterPath doesn't want you to see works until after you've paid dues.
->Therefore, MasterPath must be afraid that you will see the path and Gary for the frauds they are and never pay anything.

Your logic is clearly flawed on several counts:
- The facts: actually, there are free works. You can even download them from the website without ever having attended an actual seminar. Also, that first seminar talk is free to seekers.
- You can stop paying dues and leave the MasterPath whenever you like. Surely you won't contradict end_of_faith's claims that she used to be a chela on the MasterPath and now she is not?

The facts don't seem to mean anything to you. You just make up whatever you like, and then conclude whatever you like. I hope you can see this makes any real conversation difficult between us.

I cannot speak for the behavior of your confidant. I would hope that anyone would encourage you in whatever spiritual endeavor you chose that was not obviously in conflict with good sense (assuming your confidant actually cares about you.) As for the duration of commitment, a spiritual path is not a hobby but a way of life--a way of life that transcends all bounds of a human lifetime. I obviously don't know, but is it possible that your confidant was not thrilled by your placing conditions on your exploration of the path? (Yeah, I'll take you on as a master for eight months, and then we'll see.) Or maybe, as your writing in this thread suggests, she believes you care nothing for the truth and thus the path would indeed be a waste of money for you.

It's interesting that there seems to be little desire in this thread to address actual points of spiritual doctrine. Zeeker, you really seem concerned about the paying of dues. MasterPath supports its operations on the dues provided by its membership. Without such funds it would be unable to operate. Do the people paying these dues get their money's worth? That is a question best answered by the people paying them; while you have a right to your opinion, you should recognize that any speculation on your part concerning fair exchange is merely that: speculation.

I am also not amused by end_of_faith's histrionics regarding hypothetical chelas that "die penniless." People might easily "die penniless" due to poor economic circumstances or poor ability to manage money, but as a result of paying dues? Come now, grant others the voluntary right to choose what to spend their money on. Or are you basically insulting them by saying they cannot choose knowingly for themselves? Would it surprise you to learn that the master makes special arrangements with chelas who cannot pay the full amounts? I've already mentioned my friend who works in the masterpath office, and she also has been volunteering to help collect fees at seminars. Many chelas, she reports, pay only a small fraction of the amounts that are normally asked. So stop spreading untruths about things you obviously know nothing about.

Really, when you make your arguments, you sound like you're writing a paper for high school: you decided upon which point of view you would take first, and invent any supporting "evidence" you can find to support that point. It's not objective, and it doesn't help spiritual seekers. You and others in this thread can talk about helping other people all you want, but the nature of your arguments reveal themselves for what they are: an uninformed attack on an individual.

Meanwhile, you ignore or distort any statements I make about who the true master really is. We seem to agree that the true master is within, but somehow you keep going back to your tired refrain regarding how Gary is a fraud out to get your money. Even looking at it in the most naive way, Gary is a teacher, and I have engaged his services. How is that different, say, than paying taxes for the public school education I received? Right! I choose to pay MasterPath dues, whereas those taxes were collected without my consent at all. Nor am I asking anyone else to give Gary money, as has been implied several times in this thread (quite rudely, I might add) with words like "recruit".

I happen to agree with the public school system; we make compromises as a society. I also learned things in public school that I later discovered were just flat out untrue. Does that mean school teachers are frauds? It would seem by your arguments that you believe they are.

Since you are quite free with your advice, I shall offer some of mine: devote your efforts towards finding a path that is true for you, that provides spiritual insight and love for you, instead of wasting lots of energy attacking a path you obviously don't believe in.

 

[end_of_faith]

Hi Zeeker,

You've returned to topics that a seeker might be concerned about, so I am more than happy to respond to them.

First, regarding "try before you buy", copies of the book From Light to Sound are provided free of charge. Also, MasterPath volume #1 has also always been free. ....You just grab at whatever convenient false reasoning suits your fancy in the moment and post it here. Let's look at your argument:

Here is a link to the MP website that clearly lists the cost of Introductory Material... the same 2 Books that Vichar states are FREE.

MasterPath: Introductory Materials

MasterPath lists MP Volume I for $25
From Light to Sound $10
And all those seeker meeting tapes $3 each

So, Vichar's information seems a bit muddled by the clear facts of the Available Materials listed on the MP website.

- Your assertion: MasterPath doesn't want you to see works until after you've paid dues.
->Therefore, MasterPath must be afraid that you will see the path and Gary for the frauds they are and never pay anything.

Your logic is clearly flawed on several counts:
- The facts: actually, there are free works. You can even download them from the website without ever having attended an actual seminar. Also, that first seminar talk is free to seekers.
- You can stop paying dues and leave the MasterPath whenever you like. Surely you won't contradict end_of_faith's claims that she used to be a chela on the MasterPath and now she is not?

Clearly, vichar you misunderstand and misinterpret what Zeeker is communicating, pondering, or questioning. You state "free works" (as in plural). Well, according to the MP website there is ONE free book....and I am highly skeptical about who wrote it...or transcribed it from audio tapes....or whatever they are doing these days to sell the "word of God" according to Gary.

I am also not amused by end_of_faith's histrionics regarding hypothetical chelas that "die penniless." ..... Would it surprise you to learn that the master makes special arrangements with chelas who cannot pay the full amounts? I've already mentioned my friend who works in the masterpath office, and she also has been volunteering to help collect fees at seminars. Many chelas, she reports, pay only a small fraction of the amounts that are normally asked....

Not meant to "amuse" you...but will spare the time to explain the subtlety of meaning behind the words.

Since you are using your connection to a friend who volunteers in the MP office as a source of information, how many is "many?"

Even looking at it in the most naive way, Gary is a teacher, and I have engaged his services. How is that different, say, than paying taxes for the public school education I received?

The public school system serves the public...and is open to the public. Your "teacher" is a man claiming to be the Emissary for God, and your "path" is a private dues paying "membership only" organization.

I happen to agree with the public school system; we make compromises as a society. I also learned things in public school that I later discovered were just flat out untrue. Does that mean school teachers are frauds? It would seem by your arguments that you believe they are.

No, it doesn't mean school teachers are frauds...it also doesn't mean men claiming to be "gurus" are true.

It is unfortunate that the public school system is in such dire straits these days...I happen to agree with this article regarding non-profit religious organizations.

Real Shared Sacrifice: It's Time For Churches To Pay Taxes

 

[Vichar]

Here is a link to the MP website that clearly lists the cost of Introductory Material... the same 2 Books that Vichar states are FREE.

MasterPath: Introductory Materials

MasterPath lists MP Volume I for $25
From Light to Sound $10
And all those seeker meeting tapes $3 each

So, Vichar's information seems a bit muddled by the clear facts of the Available Materials listed on the MP website.

If you want to order your own additional copy, that's true. However, please re-read what Zeeker is complaining about: he states that chelas are not allowed to share their discourses with people not on the path. This is true. However, what he neglects to mention is that chelas are allowed to give away free copies of the two books I mentioned. I have done this myself before for people that asked me for more information. However, if I want more copies of the book myself I have to pay for them. Recently a new version of an intro book was printed and we were allowed to take free copies of them with the idea that they could be given to seekers. Also, you can walk in and attend the seeker meeting itself for free. The $3 for the tape is for a recorded transcript, and probably just to cover the cost of recording and processing.

But you're right; I didn't state what I wanted to state clearly enough. Zeeker had an issue and I attempted to address it directly. When I gave those books away, I didn't ask money for them, and so they were free to the people I gave them to. This was done with the path's full consent. This is in direct contradiction to the main part of Zeeker's complaint. Unless, of course, Zeeker is saying that all of the study materials should be free... but if you read his last post that's not what he's saying.

It's unfortunate that the public school system is hurting financially. Ironically, that's why my girlfriend does for a living. However much I agree with the public school system in principle, the financial mangement of it is not good. It does indeed serve the public, but it asks everyone to pitch in and pay for that service. The government basically forces both the education and the taxes upon you whether you believe in their efficacy or not (to say nothing about government corruption). So you highlight a difference between the public service and masterpath, and I actually prefer masterpath's way of doing things; masterpath is better for that difference. If someone doesn't like what masterpath is teaching, they can stay far away and not pay anything.

 

[Zeeker]

If you want to order your own additional copy, that's true. However, please re-read what Zeeker is complaining about: he states that chelas are not allowed to share their discourses with people not on the path. This is true. However, what he neglects to mention is that chelas are allowed to give away free copies of the two books I mentioned. I have done this myself before for people that asked me for more information. However, if I want more copies of the book myself I have to pay for them. Also, you can walk in and attend the seeker meeting itself for free.

Hi Vichar,

As End_of_Faith has pointed out, anyone can buy the two “open-to-the public” books that you have mentioned, through the MasterPath web site. You are also correct, in that a seeker, prospective member, can be given such books, for free, by a chela as part-and-parcel of their one-on-one process. I was allowed to borrow one of the books mentioned from my chela friend, and when I returned it she told me I could keep it if I wanted. Still, correct me if I’m mistaken, I don’t think they are free. The chela giving away such books has had to pay for them. MasterPath and Gary still collect their recompense, albeit from existing members (What else is new?).

As you say Vichar, a newcomer can attend their first seminar for free. However, the regular Seeker’s Meetings are comprised of 3 seminars. I would wager that nearly ever newcomer that decides to attend a Seeker’s Meeting will be there for all the 3 seminars, especially if they are coming from out-of-town. Why would you bother coming just to hear a preliminary introduction when there are two continuation lectures to follow? So in effect first time attendees are getting a $40 discount on the $120 that existing chelas are paying to be there.

I’m also not saying that the discourses should be free. I’m asking why can’t I just take a look at one, in fact the very first one a newly received member is given, Before I decide to subscribe to membership. Prior to asking my friend, I had already heard Gary's analogy: that a person cannot understand, will misunderstand, the lessons of the 12 grade without first completing the lessons of the previous grades (or something along those lines). I can comprehend the significances behind such an announcement. So why then can’t I just “see” the very first lesson of grade one, where every newcomer begins from?

Compare that to any typical tertiary course of study. Before you pay up to enroll there is nothing to stop you from going down to the University Bookshop and reading through the coursework texts to get a better idea of what the study will involve. You can finger through and read whatever you like before committing yourself, with no one saying: “You can’t do that! That’s privileged knowledge. I want to see your course fees receipt first before you can read any of that.” Anyone can also take such texts from the shelves of the campus library to read at their leisure, and even take them out for a designated length of time (typically 3 weeks or so) to have an in depth look before deciding to proceed. So, what is the explanation, the reasoning you are given by Gary as a MasterPath chela, as to Why you are not allowed to let a prospective member look at the first discourse (or any other discourse for that matter), before they decide to sign up? I would like to know.

 

[Anticult7]

"What the superior man seeks in himself; the small man seeks in others."
---Confucius

 

[Vichar]

Hi Vichar,

As End_of_Faith has pointed out, anyone can buy the two “open-to-the public” books that you have mentioned, through the MasterPath web site. You are also correct, in that a seeker, prospective member, can be given such books, for free, by a chela as part-and-parcel of their one-on-one process. I was allowed to borrow one of the books mentioned from my chela friend, and when I returned it she told me I could keep it if I wanted. Still, correct me if I’m mistaken, I don’t think they are free. The chela giving away such books has had to pay for them. MasterPath and Gary still collect their recompense, albeit from existing members (What else is new?).

I still don't understand why you feel a book should be free in the sense that you're using. Even a "free" public library has to pay for its books (cost comes from taxes). Perhaps you think authors, publishers, and printers shouldn't be paid for their services?

As you say Vichar, a newcomer can attend their first seminar for free. However, the regular Seeker’s Meetings are comprised of 3 seminars. I would wager that nearly ever newcomer that decides to attend a Seeker’s Meeting will be there for all the 3 seminars, especially if they are coming from out-of-town. Why would you bother coming just to hear a preliminary introduction when there are two continuation lectures to follow? So in effect first time attendees are getting a $40 discount on the $120 that existing chelas are paying to be there.

Don't be silly--you would lose that wager. Some people come and only listen to the first talk. I once had some rude people sit near me and chat and laugh loudly during the master's talk, and they didn't come back for another one. If they don't like Gary or they don't like what he's saying they don't come back for the other talks. Not only that, there are regional seeker meetings given by chelas who play a video of the master talking, and they are completely free with no follow-on paid meeting. I must say this argument is a bit of a stretch.

I’m also not saying that the discourses should be free. I’m asking why can’t I just take a look at one, in fact the very first one a newly received member is given, Before I decide to subscribe to membership. Prior to asking my friend, I had already heard Gary's analogy: that a person cannot understand, will misunderstand, the lessons of the 12 grade without first completing the lessons of the previous grades (or something along those lines). I can comprehend the significances behind such an announcement. So why then can’t I just “see” the very first lesson of grade one, where every newcomer begins from?

Actually, MasterPath Volume 1 (which is available to you) IS all of lesson one, and then some. It contains information relevant to not just beginning students but advanced students too! Of course a beginning student is not going to recognize this. Having received eight+ years of discourses, I can tell you that the introductory material is not "watered down" in any way. It carries the same vibration as the discourses. In fact, Volume 1 contains instructions that are sufficient to allow a beginning student to center themselves through exercises and achieve the 3rd eye (in my opinion). After that, you'll meet the inner master yourself and doubt becomes impossible at that point. So, yes, all the instructions really needed are available to seekers without even becoming a chela. Will such a person understand them? Will they need help? That's what Gary is for. You don't seem to want to allow that Gary could possibly help in this regard, so feel free to go get Volume 1 and attempt it on your own. I cannot vouch for your results. I'm just saying that the contents of that book contain all the needed instructions. The problem is that the Ego won't let you recognize what is really being said. It's funny--no matter how many ways I phrase the truth here in this thread, it seems I can't get you to understand me. So perhaps this applies to more than just Volume 1...

Compare that to any typical tertiary course of study. Before you pay up to enroll there is nothing to stop you from going down to the University Bookshop and reading through the coursework texts to get a better idea of what the study will involve. You can finger through and read whatever you like before committing yourself, with no one saying: “You can’t do that! That’s privileged knowledge. I want to see your course fees receipt first before you can read any of that.” Anyone can also take such texts from the shelves of the campus library to read at their leisure, and even take them out for a designated length of time (typically 3 weeks or so) to have an in depth look before deciding to proceed. So, what is the explanation, the reasoning you are given by Gary as a MasterPath chela, as to Why you are not allowed to let a prospective member look at the first discourse (or any other discourse for that matter), before they decide to sign up? I would like to know.

No doubt some people can just pick up a Differential Equations book and learn all they need to learn. I consider myself quite good at math, and even with a teacher I found the subject challenging. Like I said, Volume 1 contains all the needed instructions to reach the 3rd eye. But the mind and ego likely won't let you just follow those instructions as they need to be followed. Anyone is welcome to try. The discourses just contain more detailed instructions about how the mind and ego try to trick you, how you actually think you ARE the mind initially. It has to be presented slowly over time, because the mind gets angry when it's presented with the idea that it's not the central reality in your life. Once again, I've had plenty of examples of that in this thread. No matter how I state the truth, you and others feel a need to twist or ignore it. I've come flat out and said that I've followed the instructions and they work, just like instructions for boiling water or baking a cake. It's quite scientific, reproducible, and reliable. People just don't want to discipline themselves to try things out, investigate, and determine for themselves if the truth is being spoken. I can't help you with that. Decisions about personal effort have to be made by you.

Besides, people in this thread have already posted how they "peeked" at the discourses contrary to the master's wishes. If you really wanted to look at the discourses, I'm sure you'd find a way to do so. The printed words are not the issue. It's the mind's own refusal to accept what is being said in very plain text. It's happening right now, in fact. You simply don't want to accept that what I'm saying is true--you find it easier to attack Gary because it means your mind can remain in control. The dues are used to pay for printing and materials distribution. But that is not the reason the chela is asked to pay them. The chela is asked to pay a very reasonable fee because the mind feels a lot of pain and anguish over parting with the money, and it is simply a way of the chela demonstrating that one thing (their own spirituality) is more important than another (money that certainly won't travel with you after death, and is therefore worthless in the long run.)

My girlfriend teaches high school students math. Many of the students find it easy just to cry out "It's too hard" or "I'm no good at math" or "when will I ever need this?" instead of simply clearing their minds, transcending their emotions, and just applying themselves. Some students even go so far as to blame the teacher. So... are you going to continue to waste time attacking Gary, or are you going to put that energy to better use finding a path that appeals to you? (If you are so strongly against MasterPath, I strongly encourage you to find a path / study / practice that does provide the love and insight you are looking for.)

 

[end_of_faith]

I still don't understand why you feel a book should be free in the sense that you're using.

Seems what you don't understand is that we are responding to this statement made by you:

Hi Zeeker,

You've returned to topics that a seeker might be concerned about, so I am more than happy to respond to them.

First, regarding "try before you buy", copies of the book From Light to Sound are provided free of charge. Also, MasterPath volume #1 has also always been free.

bold and underline is my emphasis...

You've been a student of MP for only 8 years....and yet you state "has always been free...."

The first 10 copies of MP Book I were printed in 1987, and it has never been "free." With every editing, students paid for "revised" versions at $20 a pop...and now, it's $25. Over the years, the books cost less than $5 to print. With their new hardcover books....well, even if it cost $10 to print, they are still recouping their cost of production.

Even a "free" public library has to pay for its books (cost comes from taxes). Perhaps you think authors, publishers, and printers shouldn't be paid for their services?

Taxes also pay for non-profit organizations to exist in our society with the idea being they provide services to the community that ideally assists in alleviating the burden of government services. Do you think non-profits that are clearly profiting and provide zero service to the community, or world at large, should be exempt?

Do you think the original author of a text (or body of work) that was plagiarized should receive compensation from the plagiarist?

Do you think someone claiming to be a "guru" should be able to write his own books?

.... I once had some rude people sit near me and chat and laugh loudly during the master's talk, and they didn't come back for another one. If they don't like Gary or they don't like what he's saying they don't come back for the other talks. Not only that, there are regional seeker meetings given by chelas who play a video of the master talking, and they are completely free with no follow-on paid meeting. I must say this argument is a bit of a stretch.

Did you ever notice the "rude" behavior of your "master's wife" during seminars?

I think it's absolutely wonderful that people do not fall into the cosmic illusory fog of projecting their devotion and awe unto a man on a stage claiming to be a "Saint."

Whoo-hoo...a seeker can attend a meeting to watch a video played by a chela...and it's free! :slap:

I wonder if you will ever see how ludicrous some of this stuff sounds to people looking in....

Actually, MasterPath Volume 1 (which is available to you) IS all of lesson one, and then some. It contains information relevant to not just beginning students but advanced students too! Of course a beginning student is not going to recognize this. Having received eight+ years of discourses, I can tell you that the introductory material is not "watered down" in any way. It carries the same vibration as the discourses. In fact, Volume 1 contains instructions that are sufficient to allow a beginning student to center themselves through exercises and achieve the 3rd eye (in my opinion). After that, you'll meet the inner master yourself and doubt becomes impossible at that point....

How do you know what a beginning student will or will not recognize? I find your statement to be nothing more than a parroting of superficial closed loop thinking that is required in order to sustain a belief system. It also shows the initial indoctrination that a beginning student is subjected to: a beginning student is not ______. Fill in the blank. It's the same theme, different story line. And last, it reveals an arrogant assumption of conjecture in knowing anything about the evolution of another being.

Re: discourses. What vibration is that? An amalgamation of Eckankar, RSSB, and the minds of all editors (the wife and select office staff of Gary).

Re: Book 1. So, after you meet the "inner master" doubt becomes impossible. Of course, the entire concept is based on the fact that the "inner master" you meet is identical to the "outer personage." It also precludes (in the mind of the hoodwinked believer) the realization you might "meet inside" will be that the teacher you call true is false.

I recently heard something that resonates with my internal sense of things: Infinite doubt = infinite faith.

....Like I said, Volume 1 contains all the needed instructions to reach the 3rd eye. But the mind and ego likely won't let you just follow those instructions as they need to be followed. Anyone is welcome to try. The discourses just contain more detailed instructions about how the mind and ego try to trick you, how you actually think you ARE the mind initially. It has to be presented slowly over time, because the mind gets angry when it's presented with the idea that it's not the central reality in your life. ....People just don't want to discipline themselves to try things out, investigate, and determine for themselves if the truth is being spoken. I can't help you with that. Decisions about personal effort have to be made by you.

You are a good little parrot for your master.

Such pat answers steeped in circular logic & closed loop thinking in response to experiences that challenge, question, or go beyond the scope of your master's awareness.

.....The printed words are not the issue. It's the mind's own refusal to accept what is being said in very plain text. .... The dues are used to pay for printing and materials distribution. But that is not the reason the chela is asked to pay them. The chela is asked to pay a very reasonable fee because the mind feels a lot of pain and anguish over parting with the money, and it is simply a way of the chela demonstrating that one thing (their own spirituality) is more important than another (money that certainly won't travel with you after death, and is therefore worthless in the long run.)

The printed words are not the issue? Your statement is yet another prime example of the indoctrination process: students are taught "they are the problem" not the veracity of instruction or efficacy of the "guru."

To imply that the monthly membership dues pays for the cost of printing materials is a deflection of the real operating costs: the salaries, retirement, health benefits, and the hidden perks to the top tier (namely, your master and his wife).

So, could a reasonable person extrapolate that the opposite is equally valid and true: the guru is demonstrating that one thing (money) is more important than another (truth) since the truth inside is the only thing that doesn't cost a penny.

Would you like a straw with that kool-aid....

:beach:

 

[Still_Kicking]

Just a little Arnold humor for all of my fellow former MP's !! Glad to see that my colleagues from the city-data.com website are alive and well.

Been taking a bit of a sabbatical on this whole bashing Gary Olsen / Masterpath thing.

Basically it's already been said about how corrupt Gary and his path is and so because of that ....I am going to choose to deal w/ this man face to face, on ground of my own choosing.

He won't see me coming and it will be a worthwhile activity.

Stay tuned troops.

Cheers,
@S_K

 

[Still_Kicking]

See the original on the masterpath website titled

"Sri Gary Olsen Responds to Internet Criticism About MasterPath"

Here is my rebuttal paragraph by paragraph of his statements, I didn't cut and past the whole page, as there was some additional info at the top that wasn't relevant to criticisms that I have personally made about the MP. Enjoy !

Sri Gary Olsen Responds to Internet Criticism About MasterPath

Q. There is a public forum on the Internet wherein two or three former MasterPath students are engaging in a rather hostile attack on you, the MasterPath, and the MasterPath students. Are these accusations and criticisms truthful?

A. No, these accusations are definitely not truthful, and there is actually a wealth of misinformation and false charges being manufactured and projected on this forum. To put this into proper perspective, I must state that out of the thousands of students I have initiated, only this small number have taken such a stance. Thus, rather than diminishing the MasterPath doctrine, this truth actually reflects and gives testimony to the tremendously high success rate of those embracing this Teaching. Even though this forum embodies a barrage of false accusations along with an attempt to demean the Master and invalidate the Path, I maintain that every experience within the divine creation, regardless of how retrogressive it may initially appear, will eventually reveal an intended purpose that holds essential value for the experiencer. The predominant vibration of anger projected in this forum leaves little question as to why these former students found it difficult to harmonize with the spiritual objectives of MasterPath, but nonetheless, all individuals have the right to their own opinion, and these former students and their associates are free to express themselves in any way they choose.

RESPONSE to 1st paragraph: What false charges? They are not stated as to what those false charges are; hence this reaction is just a refusal to address issues by former MP’s to be pointed out as simply meaningless falsehoods and without foundation. A dismissive attitude at best on the part of Gary. What is not mentioned about the vibration of anger or the anger itself, and even rage in some cases, is that it very well may be justified and valid in that boundaries were violated, people were being taken advantage of, $$$’s taken from them under false pretense, being lied to and misled into something that did not provide the experience that was proselytized and did not match the format of what a truly devoted chela “should” experience. Jeez thanks Gary for allowing us the freedom to express ourselves as we have a right to do under the US constitution, yes and that was sarcasm, more on the sarcasm thing later on.

With all of the false information out there today, this does, however, present a bit of a quandary for sincere seekers, leaving them to ask, “How am I supposed to discern whether negative allegations against a spiritual path are true or false?” Truthfully speaking, those who take up arms against any specific belief system typically have a personal motive for attempting to adversely influence or even outright deny others their own inherent right to spiritual freedom. When an individual is representing a truly spiritual point of view, one’s vibration, tone, and demeanor accurately reflect this underlying intent, and even a negative assessment will be communicated in a balanced, loving, and progressive manner. And likewise, when a message is colored and imbued with injurious intent, this too directly reveals the original motive and attitude through which it has been expressed. Therefore, if a seeker can perceive the predominant tone and vibration behind any statement, this will easily reveal whether the individual’s expressed criticism holds either a destructive or constructive purpose. If the vibration is perceived to be destructive, this is the surefire indication that truth is receding from you. On the other hand, if the motive is intuited as constructive, the chances are far better that truth resides in this direction.

RESPONSE to 2nd paragraph: Gary is correct some of us have taken up arms against the MP, and for good reason since we do not wish to see it perpetuate its brand of dysfunction being promulgated onto others, particularly since many of us have seen the damage that it has caused in people’s lives, from a first person standpoint as well as from a familial impact standpoint (families disintegrating, divorce, and even murder). There is no denying of another’s right to spiritual freedom on the part of the “MP Dissenters”, there is only a relaying of experience that they had whilst on the MP. It is also not unreasonable to see conclusions being drawn as to potentially why someone would set up such an experience for people, in attempt to determine an underlying motive of people who would do such a thing. (Please see the city-data forum on the MP and Gary Olsen).

As to whether it is constructive or destructive, for those who do understand that when they come upon a dangerous “meme” as this MP, that it deserves to be eradicated since it has been clearly demonstrated that even long time MP’s left because of severely dysfunctional behavior, that was at times verbally, mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusive was displayed by Gary Olsen on numerous occasions (again see the city-data thread). So consider it destructive if you will, but that is also ordained by God as well, since God hates pretenders to his throne. And this effort on the part of the “MP Dissenters” may very well be the thing that is needed to undo the damage that has been caused, and that would be in Love. Because something is “destructive” does not mean it is not truthful at all, to wit, use the example of the American colonists throwing off the mantle of mother England, or how about the French throwing off the monarchy. The argument of the expression of anger not having a place emotionally or spiritually in one’s life, particularly when faced with a # of paradoxes that simply DO NOT add up regarding the MP is not an accurate or fair representation of how things are on the MP. Nor does it mean that “truth” is receding from one either, it simply means that some issue has been brought up and needs to be addressed. Anger is normal human emotion, and whilst it can be argued it is not the most constructive of emotions, even Gary has suggested its use, if just feigned. But again the city-data thread points out instances when it was not feigned, and was expressed directly by Gary Olsen and with emotional intent when the message was delivered, and as it was received by those in attendance.

Another infallible litmus test is the absence or presence of love, truth, and good will. The principle of love is so expansive that even truth, when not spoken in love, is no truth at all. Love and truth go hand in hand, and they cease to exist within an atmosphere of retrogressive tendencies or the presence of destructive motives. Likewise, in a spiritual atmosphere, love, truth, and good will naturally flourish, giving one an undeniable sense of an expanded consciousness and an infusion of constructive spiritual insights.

RESPONSE to 3rd paragraph: Some of us who were on the MP, have seen the use of “love bombs”, where people who are new to the MP, are approached in a “loving manner” so as to not frighten them away from this organization. But that euphoria wears off after one has attended more than a few ‘chela’ meetings, and the rubber hits the road of reality in that the purposefully obfuscated “MP teachings” are meant to confuse a person so as to NOT be able to get a clear take on what one would really get from the MP. So people who are investigating the MP are then by default left to hear the braying of current chelas on how great the Master is, and how infallible he is, and that he just loves everyone. Truth, well that is a rather convenient word to use, but a truth, unless it is based on an actual provable fact, is nothing more than a belief wrapped in denial. And that is why they call it a faith. For those who have experienced this loss of faith regarding the MP, it would only be fair that people who are investigating the MP would want to see, hear and know the other side of what the MP professes to say that it is about. Just like any other religion or cult.

 

[Still_Kicking]

However, the most reliable method a spiritual seeker can turn to when attempting to discriminate between truth and falsehood is to place your uncertainty and indecisiveness in the hands of the universal Spirit, the ever-present Divine Current within you that initially ignited and has since been guiding your spiritual search. Where all else fails, this becomes the fail-safe method, for the Spiritual Current of God presently resides within you, even as you peruse these pages, and this Current’s sole intent is to offer you guidance through the subtle nudges and intuitive insights of your own inner heartbeat.

RESPONSE to 4th paragraph: Some of us did rely on the universal spirit and found out that there was BS programming (from the MP) interfering with a clear understanding with regards to the real TRUTH about the MP and Gary Olsen. Once we saw for ourselves and that became glaringly apparent, we acted upon that knowledge and understanding. So in essence this paragraph says that this is absolutely spot on for those of us who left the MP are doing so from a higher, more enlightened and if you will free viewpoint, away from the constraints, restrictions, lies and false idol worship of a person in Gary Olsen. To imply otherwise of those who left the MP is to presume that Gary has a real omnipotence, but in fact many of us “MP Dissenters” do know that is also a untruth, which is also a lie.

If these explanations are still insufficient, I suggest that a seeker who is adversely affected by any MasterPath criticism simply research the source of the claim to discern for oneself the predominant vibration and underlying motive, for these detractors do a far better job of revealing and displaying their true intentions than I ever could. However, in matters such as these, it is always the seeker who should decide, not the words of the detractors or the Guru.

RESPONSE to 5th paragraph: A predominant vibration is not a qualification of accuracy, it is intuitive at best, but is definitely not a complete, totally clear perspective on the motive or intent of the person writing / speaking about any subject. It is only a “feeling” but that does not make it a fact. As Gary should well know that feelings can and do lie, and have mislead people through the ages, why would this be any different for the MP or its self proclaimed god-man? (Clearly rhetorical)

 

[Still_Kicking]

Since a large number of this forum’s criticisms against MasterPath center around financial topics, I encourage the investigating seeker to review the overview of MasterPath’s finances and its strict policies of compliance with all IRS non-profit rules and regulations, which can be accessed in the “About MasterPath” section of this website.

A heightened level of discernment and objectivity must be applied by all truth seekers when opening to the opinions of others in the search for a balanced perspective on any issue. When assessing the underlying motives and personal intent of those attempting to discredit a spiritual pursuit, the seeker will detect that many posture themselves as spiritual authorities, while in truth, they display a visible absence of true spiritual qualities. Detractors fueled by destructive motives often utilize several distinguishing tactics, such as ridicule, sarcasm, slander, and even outright deceit. When the seeker senses these tactics, one can begin to see the objective is not to lovingly inform and leave the choice to the seeker, but to discredit and compromise the targeted endeavor and to plant destructive doubt and fear in the seeker’s mind. In the spiritual arena, a motive such as this shows little concern for God’s will or the plight of the sincere spiritual seeker, as it merely attempts to pull the sublimity of truth down to a lesser manifestation.

RESPONSE to 7th paragraph: I am pretty sure that I did not see anyone represent themselves as god realized on the City-data forum, in fact quite the opposite. If people were harmed by their involvement with the MP, then those very people who were on it, then would have a spiritual obligation to tell others about their experience. Particularly so that potential new adherents could achieve a better, more complete understanding on what the MP and Gary Olsen are about, that would be the simply loving and truthful thing to do. These emotions of love and truth as it apparently is connected together as Gary posits is in fact a falsehood. The emotions expressed by the “MP Dissenters” at least to my eye, are action drive on behalf of their fellow man. Gary raises the issue of “destructive doubt” I would counter that with; “How destructive is the experience of being misled for a # of years only to realize that you were duped by a professional confidence man, falsely representing god, and then saying well that was your spiritual experience for this life?”

I don’t know about anyone else but I would call that false advertising if not outright lying on the part of Gary Olsen and the MP, if just by omission. A lie is still a lie if it is one based on omitting the facts, something that Gary does not mention when attempting to discern the truth of the MP or those that dissent against it. Convenient isn’t it?

Unless true seekers are able to penetrate and observe such tactics of the reactive mind, whether one’s own or someone else’s, little hope exists of attaining the lofty principles of truth and self-liberation. If the hidden motives of any detractor are perceived to be negative when examined in the fullness of light, a clear separation from God, truth, love, and compassion for all humankind will be starkly revealed. Those who are indiscriminately attempting to guide or influence the seekers of humanity, while conveniently neglecting the purification of their own individual consciousness, are not following the recommended procedure of the Masters of Light and Sound. As a past Master of Surat Shabda Yoga once stated: “Reformers wanted…not of others, but of one’s self.”

RESPONSE to 8th paragraph: TTo use the “reactive mind” as a fall back argument, is an attempt to deny the experience expressed by those who left the MP for rational, reasonable, and completely sanity seeking reasons. It is an attempt to outright usurp the truth, and twist it around in political spin doctor fashion, as cults are want to do when the pressure is on to be fully transparent.

“Purification of their own individual consciousness”….DOES NOT mean that the arguments, issues and problems highlighted by “MP Dissenters” are not valid, truthful and accurate.

Make sure that you are fully able to read and understand what I just wrote there, re-read it if you have to, because this Gary Olsen guy is devilishly cunning in the presentation of his arguments. However Gary Olsen’s logic has long been compromised if you are paying attention to what he actually says and does, and then contradicts himself again later. Congruence and consistency are not a part of his repertoire since I personally have witnessed him use techniques to create cognitive dissonance in chelas so that they were befuddled and lost in a haze of fuzzy thoughts and feelings. Yeah there you go again with advantages of participating on the MP being about consciousness when your faculties are dulled by cult programming techniques. – Yes that was sarcastic too. (Nonetheless I do suggest a little deeper reading on Eck and Scientology from those who have walked away from those particular – ahem - religions)

Therefore, wisdom says let detractors follow their personal calling. In contrast, a Living Master of the Light and Sound has been divinely called by the Supreme Deity to not only defend the truth, but to reveal it, uphold it, and to represent the Divine’s will to all who are open to receive it. Everyone has the inalienable right to criticize, but so too does everyone have the spiritual right to imbibe and revel within their own divine inheritance, free from the taunts and ridicule of the ego and its reactive mind. Character assassination, though freely employed by many detractors, is not an option to a Master of Light and Sound. The Masters center their actions solely on truth and the sweet will of the Divine. Truth always supersedes the destructive play of ego and personality, and so to center one’s discussion on personalities is never fruitful and only takes one further from truth rather than closer to it.

It is important for seekers to realize that a True Path never has anything to hide. Truth is its own defense and stands on its own. Error, sensing its weakness, becomes angry and defensive, while truth, realizing its strength, remains tranquil and progressive. Truth shines like a beacon, illuminating what was once dim or misunderstood but now stands clearly before one. Truth’s glimmering rays of understanding separate reality from falsehood, light from darkness, and serve as a shining lantern on the Path back homeward. The shadowy tendencies of mind eventually give way to truth’s brilliance, the soul is resurrected by its ringing radiance, and the spirit becomes enlightened by its blinding luminosity. Such is the nature of MasterPath, and so too each aspiring seeker, for the light of truth is sufficient in all things, only wishing us Godspeed on our divine journey back Home.

RESPONSE to 9th and 10th paragraphs: If as Gary states that the Master’s center their actions solely on the truth then if he is found to be lacking in it, even for a moment, then he cannot be called a true representative for the Divine. To challenge the consistency and character of a self-proclaimed master when there has been repeated demonstrations of deviation from that very truth then calls into the question of the integrity of the alleged master has having significant character flaws. Thus providing one a moment to pause and reflect to see that following such a person could cause one to lose the quality of one’s life as it may be in following a false path, and not a true path. The statement that the MP is the “True Path” has not been verified, only stated by Gary and the MP literature, but that does not make it an observable fact, and thus cannot be a truth just because some says it is.

One should NOT follow people who have demonstrated character flaws for which they are unwilling to be accountable for, due to the increased likelihood of being taken advantage of at a very minimum, not withstanding even more detrimental experiences as a result. (See what happened to the people following Jim Jones in Jonestown if you need a refresher).

I am quite sure that the Jonestown followers are not souls in ringing radiance or offering up blinding luminosity as a result of their experiences.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Though the subject of Egregore has come up before on this thread, it is a subject that followers/adherents of all religious systems should be reminded to familiarize themselves with so they understand that the sense of spiritual 'warmth' that they experience is primarily due to the collective, not any one individual and that includes the leader.

Egregore - Group Dynamics in Religion.
Excerpts...
Egregore is the group mind or group spirit of a body of people gathered together for common religious activities. Egregore can be either a healthy, well balanced, nurturing spiritual identity or it can become an unbalanced, damaging thing which is unhealthy for the participants.

The largest danger in leadership is that the leader will at some point confuse his or her personal identity with the aggregate identity of the group, this is often the result of pyramidal leadership concepts in which the leader is seen to be at the top or ‘in charge’ of the group.

Though from the Christian tradition, "When two or more are gathered in my name, there I AM in their midst." (Mathew 18:20), the underlying reality of this truth is equally true for all religious systems. Eventually in the life of all disciples, there comes the realization that an intermediator is not required, for the spirit of Truth is nearer than your nose...