More attacks on Free Speech in the UK

[England my lionheart]

Do you not understand what I said? I'll say it again.
If the accused plead NOT GUILTY a case must be built, submitted to the CPS before it can go to trial.

But you need to be charged first to plead.

 

[icehorse]

A little more information would be helpful.

As it is, the guy in the video is using a lot of vague subjective terms that could basically mean anything.

". . . Includes the publishing or distributing of material that's insulting or offensive or that's intended to --- or likely to -- incite racial hatred . . ."

Could literally mean anything.

So no I don't support this policy at all.

Hatred isn't --- or shouldn't be --- against the law.

Hateful actions? Yes.

Hateful feelings, thoughts, or in most cases even speech, no.

And I think that's my point. This is WAY too subjective.

 

[icehorse]

Well, in Denmark it would be illegal since you are not allowed to say that about religions, ethnicities or nationalities.
You are allowed say that elements in Islam are not peaceful, but not make a generalization.

Informative AND super scary. Are you sure about that? I don't know, but that seems inconsistent with Denmark..

 

[ChristineM]

That's why it's called mass surveillance and not individuals being investigated under due cause.

Mass surveillance is an everyday thing in the UK, if you've nothing to hide then no problem.

Check out GHCQ and NCSC

 

[Altfish]

Seems pretty straightforward to me,it’s all on video.

Do you not understand what I said? I'll say it again.
If the accused plead NOT GUILTY a case must be built, submitted to the CPS before it can go to trial.

But you need to be charged first to plead.

You need to build and submit a case before you can be formally charged.

 

[icehorse]

None of this was peaceful protest. It was racist violence, arranged using social media. I live about a mile from one of the occurrences. Thugs trying to attack a mosque. Quite happy for them all to be thrown in prison.

Just as a point of clarification, are you equating Islam with a race?

 

[icehorse]

Thank you eddi, Christine, Secret Chief and Others for your common sense, principals and simply standing up to the crap I am seeing here.
I don't know how many of you have actually been in a riot but trust me it is a totally different world to posting in a forum or reading your newspaper. A word is like a gunshot, sometimes people say what was that and other times world war breaks out.

The atmosphere has an incredible energy to it, a minor grievance can become a call to war. A very good reason not to insult religious figures or even the local football team. That energy can linger too and turn into making those who get away with it into short term heroes. Lynch mobs can be born this way.

I got very excited once on an anti-racism demo. A small but nonetheless nasty riot resulted, people got hurt and some got arrested and nothing was achieved. Some time later in a different life I was on a counter insurgency course with the military. So I have seen it from both sides and I know that eddi, Christine and Secret Chief are talking sense.

But that's NOT what the OP is about

 

[icehorse]

Mass surveillance is an everyday thing in the UK, if you've nothing to hide then no problem.

Check out GHCQ and NCSC

wow, just wow!

Who's going to decide if a thing needs to be hidden?

Is my strong dislike of Islam a thing I might need to hide? Maybe in 2024 it would be okay but in 2030 I could be arrested?

 

[ChristineM]

wow, just wow!

Who's going to decide if a thing needs to be hidden?

Is my strong dislike of Islam a thing I might need to hide? Maybe in 2024 it would be okay but in 2030 I could be arrested?

So long as you are not inciting hatred or violence towards islam or anyone else then you have no problems

 

[icehorse]

So long as you are not inciting hatred or violence towards islam or anyone else then you have no problems

Again, that's WAY too subjective.

"I think Islam has an overall negative impact on the world. It promotes violence, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, and theocracy, among other things."

There, did I just "incite hatred" ?

 

[ChristineM]

Again, that's WAY too subjective.

"I think Islam has an overall negative impact on the world. It promotes violence, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, and theocracy, among other things."

There, did I just "incite hatred" ?

Quite possibly though it's not up to me to make that decision.

 

[rocala]

But that's NOT what the OP is about

With respect, I strongly disagree. There is no free speech in a riot area. The RF members that I named, are IMO supporting the efforts to contain such riotous behaviour. In doing so, I believe that they are supporting an environment in which free speech can take place.

 

[Secret Chief]

Well that's not good, but what about the questions I asked?

Sorry. Peaceful protest is fine and protests do take place.

 

[Secret Chief]

“Quite happy for them all to be thrown in prison”

Do you mean the white ones or all?

Any violent thug. Of course most of the thugs were white and male. And I'm guessing voted brexit, ukip, reform...

 

[Secret Chief]

Just as a point of clarification, are you equating Islam with a race?

No.

 

[Father Heathen]

Thank you eddi, Christine, Secret Chief and Others for your common sense, principals and simply standing up to the crap I am seeing here.
I don't know how many of you have actually been in a riot but trust me it is a totally different world to posting in a forum or reading your newspaper. A word is like a gunshot, sometimes people say what was that and other times world war breaks out.

The atmosphere has an incredible energy to it, a minor grievance can become a call to war. A very good reason not to insult religious figures or even the local football team. That energy can linger too and turn into making those who get away with it into short term heroes. Lynch mobs can be born this way.

I got very excited once on an anti-racism demo. A small but nonetheless nasty riot resulted, people got hurt and some got arrested and nothing was achieved. Some time later in a different life I was on a counter insurgency course with the military. So I have seen it from both sides and I know that eddi, Christine and Secret Chief are talking sense.

Nobody is trying to excuse, justify, or downplay the violent, racist riots. People are questioning how censorship of photos and footage will actually solve anything. If they were consistent they would also prohibit history books from including pictures. Honestly, I think the whole incitation thing is just a pretext. I suspect that the government and authorities are more worried about their public image. Some might find censorship to be emotionally gratifying in the moment, but it sets a dangerous precedent.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I strongly condemn the violent riot/failed insurrection attempt at the U.S. capital building Jan 6 2021, but I certainly wouldn't want any of the images of it to be censored. In fact I think it's important that the world fully see and understand what transpired that day.

Same goes for anything and everything. Including the Ukrainian war admist others.

I've seen uncensored combat footage and things that would make many puke. But I think the truth needs to be transparent no matter how ugly it may be.

In that I agree with you.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Mass surveillance is an everyday thing in the UK, if you've nothing to hide then no problem.

Check out GHCQ and NCSC

I absolutely despise that pathetic kind of reasoning that if you have nothing to hide then there's no problem.

I'll tell you something there's a huge problem when your government surveys you as if you're guilty of something you've never did.

It's a precursor to absolute tyranny and an immense threat to people's freedoms, and I'll make no bones about what that means.

Which is people are playing with fire when they allow their government to do that to them.

My heart breaks for people in the UK, England, and Britain.

I never in my life would think such a fine and proud country would ever fall in that direction and that includes my own country as well.

 

[Father Heathen]

Same goes for anything and everything. Including the Ukrainian war admist others.

I've seen uncensored combat footage and things that would make many puke. But I think the truth needs to be transparent no matter how ugly it may be.

In that I agree with you.

We talking 'nade dropping drones?

When a government or law enforcement asks you to not document something, that should raise suspicion.
.

 

[icehorse]

Quite possibly though it's not up to me to make that decision.

I've never met anyone I would trust with such decisions, have you?