Muhammads knowledge divine or learned?

[vskipper]

@ brite dream my point in this thread is simple. Muhammad frequented Damascus while he was a merchant. Damascus was known at the time for its extensive Jewish & Christian population. Reason states that there is a high probability that he heard Old & New Testament stories in his travels and simply had them recalled in what appears to be epileptic seizures.

 

[Shad]

I just searched and found this on the net. I did not check it.

[AL-QUR'AN 55:19:20]
In the Arabic text the word 'barzakh' means a barrier or a partition. The Arabic word 'maraja' literally means 'they both meet and mix with each other.' Early commentators of the QUR'AN were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time, there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has ita own temperature, salinity and density. {Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93.} Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the seas through which water from one sea passes to the other. But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This scientific phenonmenon mentioned in the QUR'AN was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay who is a well-known marine scientist and Professor og Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A.

False, as this is not a barrier but exactly how I said salinity and temperature works. You read lies, you repeat lies.
A scan of both pages with underlining to show the distorted quote-mining.

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/9pdiohsqm8qcvz6/images/7-4e123c9751.png

You are repeating claim of apologists websites which is easy to refute with the source itself.

 

[Britedream]

That quote is not in that book, 'Principles of Oceanography'. It's inaccurate, which is why I gave you another reference. The barrier is transgressed, as your second paragraph says.

"Barrier conditions the water", this is my own statement, as I understood the claim has to be the case. since two different liquids that have different densities, do not mix right away in the normal circumstances. so I looked at it this way.

A-Sea one
B- small sea; barrier; different density from A and C, both is feeding it with the different salinities
C-Sea two; has different density than A.

So B will always be in equilibrium. making the water coming from the Sea with less salinity slightly more dense, and the water coming from the sea with high salinity slightly less dense. ( This is what I mean by barrier conditions the water).

if you look at it this way, then the Sea A actually is not mixing with sea C, but Both A and C are mixing with B; which has different body of water; different characteristic of salinity, density, etc. . This way both Sea A and C, keep their own characteristic. yet you see them meet, due to the barrier.

if I look at the mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean, this is the only way I can think of why is the Atlantic Ocean not changing the characteristic of The Mediterranean Sea. of course, this is my own understanding.

 

[Britedream]

False, as this is not a barrier but exactly how I said salinity and temperature works. You read lies, you repeat lies.
A scan of both pages with underlining to show the distorted quote-mining.

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/9pdiohsqm8qcvz6/images/7-4e123c9751.png

You are repeating claim of apologists websites which is easy to refute with the source itself.

Read my first post, before you put your attack on me, I am reasoning with the posters on What has been claimed to be the case.

 

[Sleeppy]

"Barrier conditions the water", this is my own statement, as I understood the claim has to be the case. since two different liquids that have different densities, do not mix right away in the normal circumstances. so I looked at it this way.

A-Sea one
B- small sea; barrier; different density from A and C, both is feeding it with the different salinities
C-Sea two; has different density then A.

So B will always be in equilibrium. making the water coming from the Sea with less salinity slightly more dense, and the water coming from the sea with high salinity slightly less dense. ( This is what I mean by barrier conditions the water).

if you look at it this way, then the Sea A actually is not mixing with sea C, but Both A and C are mixing with B; which has different body of water; different characteristic of salinity, density, etc. . This way both Sea A and C, keep their own characteristic. yet you see them meet, due to the barrier.

if I look at the mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean, this is the only way I can think of why is the Atlantic Ocean not changing the characteristic of The Mediterranean Sea. of course, this is my own understanding.

Where does verse 20 come in?

 

[Britedream]

Where does verse 20 come in?

Do you understand what I just posted to you.

 

[Sleeppy]

Do you understand what I just posted to you.

Perfectly. Are you saying that verse 20, which states that the barrier is so that water masses don't transgress against one another, is accurate?

 

[Britedream]

Perfectly. Are you saying that verse 20, which states that the barrier is so that water masses don't transgress against one another, is accurate?

I believe every word in Quran to be true, however, I do not believe every translation of every word to be true.
This is depending in what you understand the word to mean in the context of the verse.
I looked at the word "maraja" in arabic meaning reference, and has many different meanings, one is to mean mix, another one to mean separate, if you use the word to mean mix as the poster did, then it would be interpreted the same way he did, but if you take it to mean separate, then of course, other meaning will arise.

is the translation true, I do not know. I have to look into that.

 

[outhouse]

I believe every word in Quran to be true, .

That is fanaticism and fundamentalism

To reject credible knowledge end education, is not right.


Abraham factually has no historicity as ever existing.

There was no Noahs flood.

On and on and on.

 

[Britedream]

That is fanaticism and fundamentalism

To reject credible knowledge end education, is not right.


Abraham factually has no historicity as ever existing.

There was no Noahs flood.

On and on and on.

I enjoy reasoning with you, but sometimes you give me headeach.
I will touch the subject with you later.

 

[outhouse]

I enjoy reasoning with you, but sometimes you give me headeach.
I will touch the subject with you later.

We have biblical literalism with Christians and even some Jews.

But they are not accepted any more then your denial of education and knowledge

 

[outhouse]

muhammad had knowledge of the movement.

And claiming divine intervention holds the same credibility as the easter bunny leaving presents under a pine tree.

 

[Britedream]

That is fanaticism and fundamentalism

To reject credible knowledge end education, is not right.


Abraham factually has no historicity as ever existing.

There was no Noahs flood.

On and on and on.

All your post here are the words of your mouth. disagreeing with you does not mean rejecting knowledge or education, you are not the knowledge nor the education.

please allow me to show you how fragile your reasoning is :

When I asked, do you believe in the expanding of the universe?, you answer was "not only I believe in it , I know it", but when I said to you, if you reverse the process, you will come to a point where the universe was nothing, and nothing can not create anything. so there must be a creator, and that creator, we call God.

That was not easy for you to answer, so you went off the map, and instead of tackling the phrase I just put, you went after me. I think this is very weak reasoning on your part for trying to disprove the existent of God.

 

[outhouse]

so there must be a creator, and that creator, we call God.


.

Wrong that is fanaticism. Here we outlaw that rubbish so we don't poison our children's minds.


If a super massive black hole exploded, it could cause the same event. No god needed.

Your just appealing to ignorance, and making the same mistake ancient men did, of placing god in every gap of knowledge when they don't know the answer.



Your prophet was not one, he was a man. A man who plagiarized the bible and factually copied mythology and claimed it was real. he also lied to the people claiming he was a descendent of said mythological character.

If had he not copied it, he would not have copied a character he did not know time would prove to be straight mythology.


Abraham was not a prophet nor his sons. he was a literary creation. he was not part of the birth of monotheism, your religion just blindly follows a warrior pedophile who made claims and the ancient people fell for it, hook line and sinker..

 

[outhouse]

We know your so called prophet, lived in a world where knowledge of Christianity and Judaism were so wide spread, you would have to live under a rock to not know about it.


My only problem is the denial of education and knowledge. It is to me fanaticism and fundamentalism. A danger to humanity.

 

[Britedream]

you are not tackling the phrase I put , you are trying to avoid it by using assupmtions.
can nothing create anything?.

 

[outhouse]

yes your prophet copied mythology and claimed it was real. Today we know Abraham never existed and I have provided credible sources.


You cannot prove one divine aspect about your so called prophet. You are the one with ZERO evidence in favor.

While I show he not only lied, but got caught doing so.

 

[psychoslice]

I myself feel that he didn't like the Christians and Jews, so what to do ?.......well of course write your own scripture, taking a bit from here and there, and there you have the Koran.

 

[Britedream]

yes your prophet copied mythology and claimed it was real. Today we know Abraham never existed and I have provided credible sources.


You cannot prove one divine aspect about your so called prophet. You are the one with ZERO evidence in favor.

While I show he not only lied, but got caught doing so.

Can nothing create anything?.

 

[Britedream]

I myself feel that he didn't like the Christians and Jews, so what to do ?.......well of course write your own scripture, taking a bit from here and there, and there you have the Koran.

Go and help your friend to answer the question, instead of telling us about your feeling.